Faired LWB vs High Racers

[Robert Siegel]

I wonder if you rode an Aero before ordering it? If so, for how long (time, distance)

Thanks.

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "**BentAero**GC**" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<Pb00a.174788$6G4.17235@sccrnsc02>...
> > Yep, ole Tom speaks with a lot of authority about knowing how bikes do in crosswinds. Illinois
> > clearly is stuck out in the middle of the ocean
with
> > winds blowing every which way. Honestly, I truly believe the ONLY WIND blowing out of Illinois,
> > is out of Tom Sherman's mouth.
>
> EZ,
>
> I'm sorry I have to ask this question, but have you ever been out of south Florida?
>
> A short story: A couple years ago I drove the family 'out west' for a vacation. On the way we
> stopped in Hays, KS (yes, John Schlitter's home town) for lunch. When I opened the door on my
> (brand new) van, the wind nearly ripped it off the hinges. It bent the door so far around that it
> broke the body side moulding trim, and wrinkled the trailing edge of the left front fender causing
> over $500. damage.
>
> That same Kansas wind reaches Illinois.
>
> Many big cities have nick-names. New York/big apple; Louisville/derby; Indy/circle; Denver/mile
> high. Last I knew Chicago was the WINDY. And BTW, Chicago is in Illinois.
>
> Don't forget, Rans bicycles evolved from a sail-trike experiment. They wouldn't have built it if
> south Florida had a monopoly on wind.
>
> Now, to the original posters question. As many of you know, I had a GRR with fairing and bodysock
> that I loved very much. I never had any serious problems dealing with the oceanlike winds of the
> midwest. I did chose to sell it for the following reasons:
>
> 1. I was ready for a change.
> 2. The Aero will weigh at least 12-14lbs. less than the GRR/fairing/sock combo.
> 3. This *much* lighter weight should help me climb significantly faster, increasing my overall
> speed.
> 4. Kevin Kuehl (fast guy) made the same switch with fabulous results -he egged me on to do it.
> 5. John, Mark, & Rich needed the money. ;-)
>
> Respectfully, GaryC Holt, MI, (where yesterday we had a 45mph wind warning.)
> http://blackrush.home.att.net Giro Screamer Aero on the way Former GRR/fairing/sock owner (still
> love 'em!)
> P.S. The M5 seat makes a big difference in performance over a mesh seat. Test ride a Strada, then
> a Corsa. Ask Jude McGloin.

 

[Howard Bishop]

I'm always amused by claims of windiness from regions where lawn furniture, picnic tables, and house
trailers are left outside without some significant anchor to the home planet.

When someone reports from an area where it routinely blows 40 knots (a unit of measure which really
ought to be the standard, BTW, given its relationship to one minute of latitude), gusting 80 - and
there are such places - we'll have an answer worth some salt.

Until such time, carry on, at the very least it's entertaining.

 

[Mikael Seierup]

"Howard Bishop" skrev...
> When someone reports from an area where it routinely blows 40 knots (a unit of measure which
> really ought to be the standard, BTW, given its relationship to one minute of latitude), gusting
> 80 - and there are such places - we'll have an answer worth some salt.

Yep, martians speak up, dammit!

On a more serious note (not) Anyone living such a place who rode with a bodysock will most likely be
riding in a bodybag now and thus be unable to post.

40 knots my a.. ehm foot.

Mikael

 

[Robert Siegel]

For weeks and sometimes months on end, the wind in the Florida Keys blows steady out of the East at
15 knots and many days when it exceeds 20 knots. Riding a bike into that headwind required me to
gear down to the granny. I'd laugh when folks would ask "why do you need all those gears (on your
mountain bike) here in the totally flat Keys?

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Howard Bishop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm always amused by claims of windiness from regions where lawn furniture, picnic tables, and
> house trailers are left outside without some significant anchor to the home planet.
>
> When someone reports from an area where it routinely blows 40 knots (a unit of measure which
> really ought to be the standard, BTW, given its relationship to one minute of latitude), gusting
> 80 - and there are such places - we'll have an answer worth some salt.
>
> Until such time, carry on, at the very least it's entertaining.

 

[Tom Sherman]

EZ,

"EZ Biker " wrote:
>
> Nice picture Thomas. (Kinda looks like a GRR wanna be...

I have been told that is what some friends of a friend who owns a TiGRR with a bodysock though when
they saw me ride past the restaurant they were in.

> SO you haven't actually really ridden a TE or GRR w/body sock have you?...

I have not ridden a TE or a GRR with a bodysock. HOWEVER, I have ridden a TiGRR with a bodysock.

You
> don't state anywhere that you have been to South Florida, so you obviously have no clue to our
> WIND conditions down here either....

If a day is really windy, the bodysock can be removed in a few seconds, and takes up very little
storage space. Besides, why would I want to go to south Florida?

> BUT let me restate my previous point here... The nice thing about the Bacchetta Aero, Strada or
> Corsa, (Ooops, forgot to add the GIRO - they too are NO SLOUCH) is you don't need any add on
> socks, underwear, sheets or other frilly outerwear; they're PLENTY FAST without the add-ons!...

The Bacchetta bikes are not bad except for two fundamental design flaws
- the wheels are too large and the seats are too far off the ground.
(;

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

 

[Tom Sherman]

"EZ Biker " wrote:
>
> WOW Carol! I never looked at it that way! A little porter potty, in place of the seat base and you
> could have your own Mobil home!!! <Grin>....

EZ,

See this web page for the proper equipment.

< http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?client=92124242&action=serve&item=/Aircraft/Access-
ories/ReliefTube.html
>

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

 

[Tom Sherman]

**BentAero**GC** wrote:
> ...
> 4. Kevin Kuehl (fast guy) made the same switch with fabulous results -he egged me on to do it....

Gary,

The last time I saw Kevin (CRR Christmas party last December) he still had a steel-frame Aerocycle -
did he upgrade to an Aero?

How do you find the directional stability of the Aero? I briefly rode Kevin's Aerocycle, and two
impressions stood out.

Firstly, being that high and laid back was disturbing, since the peripheral vision cues I am used to
from riding lowracers were missing. I suspect I would adjust to this fairly rapidly, however.

Secondly, I thought the Aerocycle needed significantly more trail - I kept inducing directional
oscillations when riding, which has not been a problem for me on other OSS bikes with rapid steering
(e.g. RANS Rocket, Lightning P-38).

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

 

[Mike S]

[email protected] (stratrider) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Al, the side by side is what I was really interested in. I have a faired Stratus. It flys down
> hill. My upright riding buddy agrees. He cannot stay with me going down (he kills me climbing and
> on the flat - better engine!). Yet I test rode the Strada and Corsa. Both seemed to roll with less
> effort than my Stratus. I am counting on a bonus this spring that will allow me to follow your
> lead. The Corsa looks like an awesome value for a bike spec'd out with the good stuff! Thanks for
> the response.
>
> Jim Reilly

Here is my two cents worth, which is probably worth less than that. I concluded that two major
largely unconsidered factors for the comparison between LWB faired and the high racers (or the low
racers) are (1) the engine and (2) the weight. The faster you are capable of going the more the aero
advantage goes to the racers. The faired LWB would be slower than the lowracers if the rider was
capable of averaging 22 mph or more (for example). Even faired, with the more upright configuration
of the LWB, you are pushing more air, thus more effort to maintain that speed, thus more fatigue and
your average falls. The coast down tests I don't think disprove this because the heavier LWB should
be faster downhill on a coast all other things being equal, since most comparisons I read about
involves a significant riding distance. I don't see why the same analysis wouldn't apply to the high
racers. But for me this analogy doesn't help because the only way I could average 22 mph is to dream
about it. For a rider like myself (I average 14 - 15 overall but am improving) I can't ride fast
enough to really exploit the more aero style of the racers (low or high). I would think that at my
current speed the faired LWB might hold the advantage because its aerodynamic disadvantages are
overcome by its larger wheels (I assume the 700/451 GRR here) which I find retain speed better than
even the 26/26 configuration. As to the weight, high racers are lighter than faired LWB which means,
again, that hill climbing on a LWB means pushing more weight means more effort thus fatigue sooner
thus lowering the average. That seems why many of the DFers are faster than I am overall (I wish it
wasn't so and perhaps someday it won't be). They don't do fast better, they do slow a lot better.
But I can't climb hills that fast to make that much of a difference. So, for me, the better the
engine, the vote goes to the high racers. The worse the engine, the difference narrows or
disappears. At least that has been my experience.

 

[Harv]

I've heard rumors that the most wind from Chi town is when the door to the city councle chamber is
left open. "**BentAero**GC**" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<Pb00a.174788$6G4.17235@sccrnsc02>...
> > Yep, ole Tom speaks with a lot of authority about knowing how bikes do in crosswinds. Illinois
> > clearly is stuck out in the middle of the ocean
with
> > winds blowing every which way. Honestly, I truly believe the ONLY WIND blowing out of Illinois,
> > is out of Tom Sherman's mouth.
>
> EZ,
>
> I'm sorry I have to ask this question, but have you ever been out of south Florida?
>
> A short story: A couple years ago I drove the family 'out west' for a vacation. On the way we
> stopped in Hays, KS (yes, John Schlitter's home town) for lunch. When I opened the door on my
> (brand new) van, the wind nearly ripped it off the hinges. It bent the door so far around that it
> broke the body side moulding trim, and wrinkled the trailing edge of the left front fender causing
> over $500. damage.
>
> That same Kansas wind reaches Illinois.
>
> Many big cities have nick-names. New York/big apple; Louisville/derby; Indy/circle; Denver/mile
> high. Last I knew Chicago was the WINDY. And BTW, Chicago is in Illinois.
>
> Don't forget, Rans bicycles evolved from a sail-trike experiment. They wouldn't have built it if
> south Florida had a monopoly on wind.
>
> Now, to the original posters question. As many of you know, I had a GRR with fairing and bodysock
> that I loved very much. I never had any serious problems dealing with the oceanlike winds of the
> midwest. I did chose to sell it for the following reasons:
>
> 1. I was ready for a change.
> 2. The Aero will weigh at least 12-14lbs. less than the GRR/fairing/sock combo.
> 3. This *much* lighter weight should help me climb significantly faster, increasing my overall
> speed.
> 4. Kevin Kuehl (fast guy) made the same switch with fabulous results -he egged me on to do it.
> 5. John, Mark, & Rich needed the money. ;-)
>
> Respectfully, GaryC Holt, MI, (where yesterday we had a 45mph wind warning.)
> http://blackrush.home.att.net Giro Screamer Aero on the way Former GRR/fairing/sock owner (still
> love 'em!)
> P.S. The M5 seat makes a big difference in performance over a mesh seat. Test ride a Strada, then
> a Corsa. Ask Jude McGloin.

 

[Ez Biker :-\)]

Excellent device Tom! Might have to look into one of those. Hope it comes in a LARGE... size...
<Laughter> EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "EZ Biker " wrote:
> >
> > WOW Carol! I never looked at it that way! A little porter potty, in
place of
> > the seat base and you could have your own Mobil home!!! <Grin>....
>
> EZ,
>
> See this web page for the proper equipment.
>
> <
>
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?client=92124242&action=serve&
item=/Aircraft/Accessories/ReliefTube.html
> >
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

 

[Ez Biker :-\)]

Interesting observation Howard.

When someone reports from an area where it routinely blows 40 knots (a unit of measure which really
ought to be the standard, BTW, given its relationship to one minute of latitude), gusting 80 - and
there are such places - we'll have an answer worth some salt

So where is this specific place and if there are any socked rides living there, please feel free to
BLOW IN and offer some feedback for us non / sock, too windy wimps down here in South Fl... <Grin>
EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Howard Bishop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm always amused by claims of windiness from regions where lawn furniture, picnic tables, and
> house trailers are left outside without some significant anchor to the home planet.

 

[Howard Bishop]

> So where is this specific place and if there are any socked rides living there, please feel free
> to BLOW IN and offer some feedback for us non / sock, too windy wimps down here in South Fl...
> <Grin> EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)
>

I reread my post and found I was unhappy with the overall tone; my apologies to all and sundry.

Conditions such as that, while not an everyday occurance, can be found nearly every Spring in New
Mexico, although you should be able to find at least 30kts on the ground in any of the arid western
states in Springtime. I wasn't kidding about the lawn furniture, BTW.

The point I had wanted to make, is that claims of windiness, while entertaining, can be quantified.
The post from the keys does this, and I was happy to read it.

And while I do admire knots, I'll confess to running my computer in km. The resolution of .5 km
seems better suited to a 20" wheel than .5 miles (or heaven forbid, ~.475 NM).

 

[Tom Sherman]

"EZ Biker " wrote:
> ... You don't state anywhere that you have been to South Florida, so > you obviously have no clue
> to our WIND conditions down here either. > Alas, Tom Poo, TALK TO THE HAND, TALK TO THE HAND.
> <Laughter>

EZ,

I have no need to go to south Florida, since NOAA has historical weather data online. [1] I did a
spot check of several months in 2000 that I remembered being windy and during which I rode my socked
"Wavewind" and compared the "Maximum Sustained Wind Speed" and "Maximum Wind Gust" between
Champaign-Urbana, Illinois and West Palm Beach, Florida. According to the data, the wind speeds were
higher in Champaign-Urbana much of the time.

[1] < http://climvis.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/gsod_image >

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You soon find out the pig likes
it! - Unknown

 

[Ez Biker :-\)]

The answer to your question Gary, is YES. (Actually I'm a native from Houston Texas) Been to and
ridden (DF & Recumbent) in Calif, Arizona, New Mexico, Louisiana, Georgia and Mississippi) Oh and
also Galveston Texas with those BIG GULF winds blowing in of the ocean) Let me say here, I'm sure
Bodysocks work for some people and others not. I'm one of the nots. If bodysock riders can ride well
in various windy situations, all the power to them! May they be, HAPPY in their cycling! EZ Biker
Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)
PS: Your 1st 3 reasons for acquiring the Aero, fit me too. (But I'm still keeping my Beloved GRR Ti
and will be riding it)

"**BentAero**GC**" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<Pb00a.174788$6G4.17235@sccrnsc02>...
> > Yep, ole Tom speaks with a lot of authority about knowing how bikes do in crosswinds. Illinois
> > clearly is stuck out in the middle of the ocean
with
> > winds blowing every which way. Honestly, I truly believe the ONLY WIND blowing out of Illinois,
> > is out of Tom Sherman's mouth.
>
> EZ,
>
> I'm sorry I have to ask this question, but have you ever been out of south Florida?
>
> A short story: A couple years ago I drove the family 'out west' for a vacation. On the way we
> stopped in Hays, KS (yes, John Schlitter's home town) for lunch. When I opened the door on my
> (brand new) van, the wind nearly ripped it off the hinges. It bent the door so far around that it
> broke the body side moulding trim, and wrinkled the trailing edge of the left front fender causing
> over $500. damage.
>
> That same Kansas wind reaches Illinois.
>
> Many big cities have nick-names. New York/big apple; Louisville/derby; Indy/circle; Denver/mile
> high. Last I knew Chicago was the WINDY. And BTW, Chicago is in Illinois.
>
> Don't forget, Rans bicycles evolved from a sail-trike experiment. They wouldn't have built it if
> south Florida had a monopoly on wind.
>
> Now, to the original posters question. As many of you know, I had a GRR with fairing and bodysock
> that I loved very much. I never had any serious problems dealing with the oceanlike winds of the
> midwest. I did chose to sell it for the following reasons:
>
> 1. I was ready for a change.
> 2. The Aero will weigh at least 12-14lbs. less than the GRR/fairing/sock combo.
> 3. This *much* lighter weight should help me climb significantly faster, increasing my overall
> speed.
> 4. Kevin Kuehl (fast guy) made the same switch with fabulous results -he egged me on to do it.
> 5. John, Mark, & Rich needed the money. ;-)
>
> Respectfully, GaryC Holt, MI, (where yesterday we had a 45mph wind warning.)
> http://blackrush.home.att.net Giro Screamer Aero on the way Former GRR/fairing/sock owner (still
> love 'em!)
> P.S. The M5 seat makes a big difference in performance over a mesh seat. Test ride a Strada, then
> a Corsa. Ask Jude McGloin.