eyelets, a must have or not?

in article [email hidden], Eric at
[email hidden] wrote on 8/26/04 7:32 PM:

Quoted message said:

Are eyelets a must for an all around rim? Are rims without eyelets at a
disadvantage? What are the pros and cons? In particular I'm wondering the
difference between the cxp 14 and cxp 30 rims.
Thanks in advance,

With the "single" eyelets that are common today, pretty much all they do is
protect the spoke nipple. Personally, I will not build a non-eyeletted rim
with aluminum nipples as they are damaged too easily.

On older rims and some current rims like the Torelli Master, the eyelets are
"double" eyelets or socketed eyelets. These eyelets help share the load
over both walls of the rim. Unfortunately, they are out of fashion today
because they add a small bit of weight and most folks, including the
marketing folks at the rim manufacturers, don't understand their function.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
LaSalle, IL
http://www.heronbicycles.com/
http://www.tullios.com/

eric-<< Are eyelets a must for an all around rim? Are rims without eyelets at
a
disadvantage? >><BR><BR>

No and no, if the rim is designed not to have them. Velocity Aero, Fusiuon,
Aerohead and Deep V are good examples.

CXP-30 is a CXP 14 with the inserted sockets, essentially. For the $(lots for
CXP-30) look at Velocity.

http://www.velocityusa.com

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Todd Kuzma <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

in article [email hidden], Eric at
[email hidden] wrote on 8/26/04 7:32 PM:

Quoted message said:

Are eyelets a must for an all around rim? Are rims without eyelets at a
disadvantage? What are the pros and cons? In particular I'm wondering the
difference between the cxp 14 and cxp 30 rims.
Thanks in advance,

With the "single" eyelets that are common today, pretty much all they do is
protect the spoke nipple. Personally, I will not build a non-eyeletted rim
with aluminum nipples as they are damaged too easily.

On older rims and some current rims like the Torelli Master, the eyelets are
"double" eyelets or socketed eyelets. These eyelets help share the load
over both walls of the rim. Unfortunately, they are out of fashion today
because they add a small bit of weight and most folks, including the
marketing folks at the rim manufacturers, don't understand their function.

Do sockets really increase the net weight of a rim? I would think that
rims without sockets would have to change the extrusion to compensate.
But that means you're adding aluminum even in places where it's not
needed, instead of adding a bit of stainless steel at the spoke holes.

Eric wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Are eyelets a must for an all around rim? Are rims without eyelets at a
disadvantage? What are the pros and cons? In particular I'm wondering the
difference between the cxp 14 and cxp 30 rims.
Thanks in advance,

No rims without eyelet just need washers to spread and so reduce the bending
loads incurred on the rim. Most rims are grossly overengineered for their
intended use these days. Oh the joys of a free market, bounded by
unnecessary constraint.

Trevor

trevor-<< No rims without eyelet just need washers to spread and so reduce the
bending
loads incurred on the rim. >><BR><BR>

garbage. Rims w/o eyelets don't 'need' washers.
Maybe in 1960 but today's rims(Velocity) do not.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Eric said:

Are eyelets a must for an all around rim?

No. I've used plenty of rims without eyelets and never had a spoke pull
through. If you want insurance you can put little brass washers - I
think M4 is the best fit - under the nipples when building the wheel.
Obviously this adds weight, but it spreads the load and might also make
the nipples turn more easily when truing - you pays your money etc.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

trevor-<< No rims without eyelet just need washers to spread and so reduce

the

Quoted message said:

bending
loads incurred on the rim. >><BR><BR>

garbage. Rims w/o eyelets don't 'need' washers.
Maybe in 1960 but today's rims(Velocity) do not.

Pardon me. Yes, todays overweight non-eyeletted rims do not require
washers. A lightweight rim may require washers to prevent excessive
distortion or even pull-through of the nipple. Consult with manufacturer of
rim if required.

Trevor

trevor-<< Yes, todays overweight non-eyeletted rims do not require
washers. A lightweight rim may require washers to prevent excessive
distortion or even pull-through of the nipple. Consult with manufacturer of
rim if required. >><BR><BR>

hmmmm..Velocity Escape and Aerohead are in the high 300, low 400 grams range.
hardly a heavy weight, no eyelets, no washers required. I have build perhaps
300 of these rims w/o any problems.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Not all eyeletless rims can take a washer either. I know the Velocity Aeroheads cannot due to the nipple bed curvature.