experience with Look Ergostem?

res09c5t said:

Hi, I'm looking at a Look Ergostem. I think the adjustability looks pretty neat. Do these work as
advertised? Are you happy with it as a permanent stem or do you tend to use it to find fit and
then buy a "real" one? Any other comments?

Wishing to increase my bar height a few years ago, but not certain what reach I needed, I got a
Kalloy adjustable stem. Like I said, it was two or three years ago. I'm still not sure what size I
need; that stem is still on there. Since it works so well, why should I change it?

Pat
--
Apologies to those easily confused. Address is spam-resistant. Correct email address like pdlamb
'round-about comcast point net.

res09c5t said:

I'm looking at a Look Ergostem. I think the adjustability looks pretty neat.

It is. More adjustable than any other stem. Available in both ahead and quill versions.

Quoted message said:

Do these work as advertised?

Yes - and more: can turn the whole thing upside down for even more wacky positions!

The adjustability might not be _quite_ as trouble free as you'd think though, because you usually
have to adjust bar tilt after adjusting pivots; it's tricky to work out what combination of 'A' and
'B' settings are required for desired position; and the range is limited by cable length in
practice. However, using it is still much more convenient than changing stems and it can be done by
the roadside in a few mins with just a 6mm allen wrench. It's also convenient for raising and
lowering the ahead stem without having to do the spacer business. ...Yes, we know, quill users! :-)

Quoted message said:

Are you happy with it as a permanent stem or do you tend to use it to find fit and then buy a
"real" one?

I intended to use it as a long-term temporary stem, ie. use it for some months (after a back injury
and new bike) before being absolutely sure of what I needed, then transfer it to another bike, etc.
Unfortunately I stripped the steerer clamp threads (as could be done by overtightening any stem; not
Look's fault) before I used it all that much. I will get it helicoiled sometime; but now am
reasonably happy with a regular stem. I like being free of that bulk but do miss the reasurance of
knowing I could alter the position at any time and also fine tune the reach.

But you could use it as a permanent stem - providing you didn't mind its weight (400g+), bulk and
looks. Some users (incl Cycling Plus mag) say they find it rather flexible but I didn't notice this
myself (although I did have it on short-reach settings) and some track riders usee it so it can't
be that bad.

Quoted message said:

Any other comments?

I suggest: Get one if you're unsure what extension and rise you'll need AND you expect to want to
keep trying various positions, OR you have a temporary back problem or similar, AND you can afford
it AND you don't mind the single bolt bar clamp, otherwise just use ordinary stems.

Tip: When adjusting pivot bolts, gently tighten until you just find the biting point, then move and
set. This will avoid setting inbetween and squashing the washer notches, making them grip less well.

Bar clamp is 26.0 (new version), clamp height is 40mm (ahead), ahead is 1
1/8" supplied with a shim for 1".

(Ahead) Look instruct you not to place spacers under stem but no-one here on r.b.t could come up
with a good reason why not.

~PB

"res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm looking at a Look Ergostem. I think the adjustability looks pretty neat. Do these work as
advertised? Are you happy with it as a permanent stem or do you tend to use it to find fit and
then buy a "real" one? Any other comments? Thanks in advance! Lyle

I've used them both on TT bikes and on a tandem - they're heavy, but nice and stiff. Just make sure
you tighten the bolts to the specified torque - it should be enough to create detents or notches in
the alu washers. If you don't, the stem can slip on you.

Andy Coggan

Mine slips.

I got one for similar reasons as other posters. I wanted to try a higher bar height and my quill
stem didn't allow for any more height adjustment, so, rather than just put on another fixed stem, I
thought the Ergo was a good choice to experiment with positioning. Prior to purchasing it, I had
read about the slippage issue, but went ahead anyway, because there were indications that it worked
well for many people.

For simple, low-impact rides, it works OK , but every weekend I ride with a group, which is more
demanding, Each of the past few weeks it's slipped as a result of the ride. I have tried all the
torque suggestions put out by other posters, to no avail. I am going to put on another stem - one
needs assurance when riding one's bike, not only safety for oneself, but especially for others.

I'd say that one should consider that the slippage issue is a significant factor when thinking about
purchasing the Ergostem.

Mark H.

"res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm looking at a Look Ergostem. I think the adjustability looks pretty neat. Do these work as
advertised? Are you happy with it as a permanent stem or do you tend to use it to find fit and
then buy a "real" one? Any other comments? Thanks in advance! Lyle

Quoted message said:

I'd say that one should consider that the slippage issue is a significant factor when thinking
about purchasing the Ergostem.

Mark H.

I'm a pretty big fellow and have an ErgoStem on my TT bike. I do the deed on it especially when one
considers the added leverage of the aero bars plus the weight of my upper body resting on the stem.

I haven't had a problem with it slipping.

Jon

I'm open to additional suggestions for tightening it.

I'd think that it wouldn't require any special methodology, the instructions say nothing. Allegedly,
one should simply have to line it up and tighten it down, but there have been as many posts from
folks who've had slippage as those who have had success. Could it be that we're all using the
product wrong? Is there a special bike mechanic's technique or perhaps a special torque wrench? This
is the forum to find out.

Might it be some angle combos are more prone to slippage than others?

Mark H.

"Jon Isaacs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd say that one should consider that the slippage issue is a significant factor when thinking
about purchasing the Ergostem.

Mark H.

I'm a pretty big fellow and have an ErgoStem on my TT bike. I do the deed

on

Quoted message said:

it especially when one considers the added leverage of the aero bars plus

the

Quoted message said:

weight of my upper body resting on the stem.

I haven't had a problem with it slipping.

Jon

Whoops, silly me, an important point: Last week, Wednesday, I had my bike tuned up at a good LBS. I
specifically asked them to check out the stem because of the slipping. They allegedly checked it and
tightened it, as well. At least they said so - it's written on my invoice. Three days later it
slipped, the looseness was noticed by a fellow rider at our rest stop. What gives?

Mark H.

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm open to additional suggestions for tightening it.

I'd think that it wouldn't require any special methodology, the

instructions

Quoted message said:

say nothing. Allegedly, one should simply have to line it up and tighten

it

Quoted message said:

down, but there have been as many posts from folks who've had slippage as those who have had
success. Could it be that we're all using the product wrong? Is there a special bike mechanic's
technique or perhaps a special torque wrench? This is the forum to find out.

Might it be some angle combos are more prone to slippage than others?

Mark H.

"Jon Isaacs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd say that one should consider that the slippage issue is a

significant

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

factor when thinking about purchasing the Ergostem.

Mark H.

I'm a pretty big fellow and have an ErgoStem on my TT bike. I do the

deed

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

it especially when one considers the added leverage of the aero bars

plus

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

weight of my upper body resting on the stem.

I haven't had a problem with it slipping.

Jon

Thanks, Jon. See, that's why this forum is so good, getting other's outlooks and experiences. I had
given up on the stem, but I'll take it back to the LBS and have them get another look at it (no pun
intended ;-).

In the meantime, if anyone else has a clue...

Mark

"Jon Isaacs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm open to additional suggestions for tightening it.

I'd think that it wouldn't require any special methodology, the

instructions

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

say nothing. Allegedly, one should simply have to line it up and tighten

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

down, b

Quoted message said:

Is there a special bike mechanic's technique or perhaps a special torque wrench? This is the
forum to find out.

I am sorry I cannot say, my only recommendation would be to make sure that

the

Quoted message said:

bolts are all lubricated, threads and heads.

The one I have is on permanent loan from a fellow who is a well known fitter/mechanic in the area
and I am sure if there is trick, he knows it.

He

Quoted message said:

has several of these and he will install them on a customers bike and

adjust it

Quoted message said:

and let them ride with it for a while. The fact that it does work with a featherweight guy like me
is a sign there is some trick or something.

Jon

Mark H. said:

Mine slips.

I presume you mean at the 'A' and 'B' pivots. Mine has never slipped there. I believe it helps if
you make sure the notches in the washers and stem engage properly, and that the washers are not
spoilt by setting inbetween notches. The bolts seem to tighten up well; all seems secure to
me. I haven't used it at the longer extension settings, though, so I suppose it could all be more
vulnerable like that.

I have had a bit of slippage at the handlebar clamp - but perhaps that's because I used 25.8 bars.

~PB

Regarding his constantly slipping Ergostem, "Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In the meantime, if anyone else has a clue...

There are serrated washers on each side of each pivot, which account for the "notches" you feel when
changing the angle. Perhaps you had the bolts too loose at first, and the subsequent slipping
episodes wore them down to where they are no longer contributing to keeping the stem from moving?

Doesn't Look specify a torque for the bolts? I thought that they did, and that it was rather high -
so maybe you just need to apply even more torque than you have been? (If you strip the threads,
don't blame me! <g>😉

Is it possible that your stem and/or bolts are defective, so that the bolts are somehow bottoming
out before applying the expected pressure that sandwiches everything together?

I did have an Ergostem slip on me once, when I slammed through a low water crossing at the start of
the Tour de Greune TTT - after that, I learned to really tighten the bolts, and have never had a
problem since.

Andy Coggan

Thanks to all for the good suggestions. Although I think I'm pretty deliberate mechanically, I'm
not above thinking I may have made some installation error(s). I went over the stem looking for
wear points, correct lube and brought it to my LBS for double-checking and torquing. It didn't
appear the washers were compromised, then again...yesterday, slippage on my group ride. Yet, the
torque on the pivot points (A is the primary offender) was so tight that we could barely break it
loose with road wrenches.

The group leaders said that those stems are good for TT and determining handlebar positioning, but
likely not able to hold up to the forces at the pace we're taking hilly and rough roads. Maybe.

Anyway, my adventure with the Ergostem is over, whether I did something incorrect or not with its
use. I need confidence and have to ride especially safe with a group, so off it comes this week. I
accomplished my purpose, still, as I have a better idea of where I like my bars. Interestingly, I
had a good comparision of different bar positions as the stem slipped one notch at a time on my
rides. ;-)

And, I can't help but think that there is some truth to my original assertion that slippage should
be a consideration with this stem. Even some posters who have had success with it have had some
slippage incidents.

Mark

I took mine apart to guess why it slipped (first time ever!). I'm wondering if the bolt sometimes
tightens against the mating flats inside, rather than the toothed washers? Perhaps after a little
wear on the aluminum flat surfaces where the washer grabs.

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thanks to all for the good suggestions. Although I think I'm pretty deliberate mechanically, I'm
not above thinking I may have made some installation error(s). I went over the stem looking for
wear points, correct lube and brought it to my LBS for double-checking and torquing. It didn't
appear the washers were compromised, then again...yesterday, slippage on my group ride. Yet, the
torque on the pivot points (A is the primary offender) was so tight that we could barely break it
loose with road wrenches.

The group leaders said that those stems are good for TT and determining handlebar positioning, but
likely not able to hold up to the forces at the pace we're taking hilly and rough roads. Maybe.

Anyway, my adventure with the Ergostem is over, whether I did something incorrect or not with its
use. I need confidence and have to ride especially safe with a group, so off it comes this week. I
accomplished my purpose, still, as I have a better idea of where I like my bars. Interestingly, I
had a good comparision of different bar positions as the stem slipped one notch at a time on my
rides. ;-)

And, I can't help but think that there is some truth to my original assertion that slippage should
be a consideration with this stem. Even some posters who have had success with it have had some
slippage incidents.

Mark

"Mark H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And, I can't help but think that there is some truth to my original assertion that slippage should
be a consideration with this stem. Even

some

Quoted message said:

posters who have had success with it have had some slippage incidents.

Mine slipped once, but never again after I made sure the bolts were *tight*. Did you ever use a
torque wrench to see if you had your's tightened to spec? (I confess that I didn't, so I don't know
what Look's torque recommendation might be - I would like to know, though, since I've got another
Look Ergostem waiting to go on a tandem, and shiny new torque wrench wanting to be used. <g>😉

Andy Coggan

Andy Coggan said:

Mine slipped once, but never again after I made sure the bolts were *tight*. Did you ever use a
torque wrench to see if you had your's tightened to spec? (I confess that I didn't, so I don't
know what Look's torque recommendation might be - I would like to know, though, since I've got
another Look Ergostem waiting to go on a tandem, and shiny new torque wrench wanting to be
used. <g>😉

25 Nm, according to the ErgoStem instructions.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

Mine slipped once, but never again after I made sure the bolts were *tight*. Did you ever use a
torque wrench to see if you had your's tightened to spec? (I confess that I didn't, so I don't
know what Look's torque recommendation might be - I would like to know, though, since I've got
another Look Ergostem waiting to go on a tandem, and shiny new torque wrench wanting to be
used. <g>😉

25 Nm, according to the ErgoStem instructions.

Thank you!

Let's see, 9.81 N/kg, 2.205 kg/lbs, your typical Allen wrench that size might be at best 10 cm
long....so if I apply more than one-third of my body weight to the wrench it should be tightened
to spec. ;-)

Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

Did you ever use a torque wrench to see if you had your's tightened to spec? (I confess that I
didn't, so I don't know what Look's torque recommendation might be - I would like to know,
though, since I've got another Look Ergostem waiting to go on a tandem, and shiny new torque
wrench wanting to be used. <g>😉

Sorry not to get back to you right away, Andy, I'm not able to check the NG everyday. Yes, the
torque is listed as 25 Nm., but I've no torque wrench, that's one reason why I took it to the LBS.

And, Jon, I've followed the rec.bike NGs long enough to know to give serious consideration to your
comments/opinions. I understand your point about proper installation. I'm looking forward to
thoroughly dismantling and inspecting the whole piece when I change stems in a couple days.

Mark