Exercise Part II

Quoted message said:

As for gripping handlebars too tightly; I've been cycling for thirty
years. I know how to grip a bike.

Maybe not. Possibly you could grip less and ride more.

I've found it easy to ride a bicycle.

Sure, I was not smooth at first. But time marched on.

Eventually I reached my current level of perfection.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Generally, advice you get on a news group is worth exactly what you paid for
it.

If it happens to be worth more, you are in luck. Usually on this NG that is the
case. Your job is to sort through the advice given and find what applies to
you, ignoring what you think is not correct. So, why are you then berating a
group of folks who tried to help you?

How about your going to a sports trainer and actually paying for advice?

That way you will think the advice to be of a great deal of value!

http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

Quoted message said:

Given that bicycling can also create
lots of wear and tear on the knees

Really? From my own experience and people I have talked to and my reading,
bicycling done properly is very knee friendly. I have even had friends with
knee injuries whose rehabilitation featured cycling as a way of building up the
knees. Sure you can beat up your knees cycling, if you push really big gears
or something, but normally no.

Quoted message said:

The other stupid claim contends that upper body conditioning
is not useful in bicycling. Two arguments were used to
explain my upper body fatigue (when riding):

Well upper body conditioning is useful I suppose, but cycling does not really
require much there. I have ridden plenty of centuries and I have never had any
upper body fatigue from cycling. Now my lats do come into play some when I
climb hills, but that is about it. Doing a few lat pulldowns or one armed rows
would almost certainly meet any requirement there.

Quoted message said:

The books are quite specific, the lion's share of your weight
is carried by your arms. Can't remember the number that they
gave as a percentage, but I would say that at least 60%

I have heard the other way around 40% arms and 60% legs and rear. For many
people, who ride with handle bars a little high I would think the mix would be
20%/80% or even more.

Quoted message said:

but how much do you gain by shaving your legs?

I have read and heard that the leg shaving benefit is not for aerodynamics. If
one crashes and gets road rash, it is far easier to clean and bandage the wound
if you don't have a lot of hair all over the place. Racers, who generally have
road rash in various stages of healing, tend to routinely shave their legs for
this reason.

Quoted message said:

In the end, I believe that the idiots that put this forward,
are just plain lazy and don't want to do any upper body
conditioning.

Well, calling people idiots is not the greatest way to get help is it? It
strikes me as being counterproductive.

As you know from above, I don't think cycling requires much upper body
conditioning. But having a body that is in some kind of shape is nice.
Cycling isn't going to help upper body conditioning. What I do is a weight
lifting routine to work on the major upper body muscle groups and on the
abdominals. It isn't rocket science to come up with something.

Quoted message said:

Another thing that I am looking for is balance (and
comprehensiveness)

It stikes me that you have some pretty specific needs and you can either hire a
trainer to tailor a program for you or you can do the research and cook up your
own. I doubt that I have the information about you to even know what to
suggest. Plus, given the fact that you seem to regard people who give you
advice that you are not impressed with "idiots", well I doubt that even if I
came up with the perfect program for you that you would appreciate it.

Good luck by the way.

(Pbwalther) said:

Really? From my own experience and people I have talked to and my reading,
bicycling done properly is very knee friendly. I have even had friends with
knee injuries whose rehabilitation featured cycling as a way of building up the
knees. Sure you can beat up your knees cycling, if you push really big gears
or something, but normally no.

Agreed. I have a knee that has a fair amount of damage to it, but
bicycling is given the all clear. Torn meniscus (sp?), prearthritic
spot, small foreign object behind knee cap, etc., but no problem on
the bike. OTOH when I asked if I could play soccer, the MD said he was
of mixed emotions. On one hand, he could use the income...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Pbwalther) said:

Really? From my own experience and people I have talked to and my

reading,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bicycling done properly is very knee friendly. I have even had friends

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knee injuries whose rehabilitation featured cycling as a way of building

up the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knees. Sure you can beat up your knees cycling, if you push really big

gears

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or something, but normally no.

Agreed. I have a knee that has a fair amount of damage to it, but
bicycling is given the all clear. Torn meniscus (sp?), prearthritic
spot, small foreign object behind knee cap, etc., but no problem on
the bike. OTOH when I asked if I could play soccer, the MD said he was
of mixed emotions. On one hand, he could use the income...

I used to use my bicycle as my only form of mobility when I would
hurt my knees playing soccer. Ride the kids to school instead of
driving and walking them in. Ride to errands instead of walk. Knees
got better faster, and I hobbled less. Now that I gave up soccer
bicycling keeps my knees in shape for tennis. Knees seems a bit
sore, start riding more...

(Pbwalther) said:

Quoted message said:

Given that bicycling can also create
lots of wear and tear on the knees

Really? From my own experience and people I have talked to and my reading,
bicycling done properly is very knee friendly. I have even had friends with
knee injuries whose rehabilitation featured cycling as a way of building up the
knees.

I can chip in and say biking can also rehab the hip(s). I've had a hip
injury for several years and the biking has helped immensely, not only in
the long run, but also per session.

-B

The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is to ride the bike!

I am out of shape, and I can think of a bunch more excuses for being in this
sorry shape - when infact its just a matter of doing and being motivated.

Walking - get your arms moving!
Excercising, - move the couch out of the way - involve your group if you have
to. I tried a pilates video - wow - it excercised muscles that I didn't even
know I had.

So, get motivated and just do it! Movement is important!

take care
Liz

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:41:06 GMT, Thad O <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
time driving to and fro then I did in the gym. Checking the
situation out, there are no gyms which are conveniently
located. I live in a group environment, so noisy equipment
is out, and since I have very very little room ( not enough
free room to do an exercise video ) a lot of equipment is
out.

On top of that, the last few years have been rough healthwise
so I need to basically start from the bottom. In particular,
I want to build up to the point where I can do much more
serious cycling again. Like going out and doing a century
( which means 100 miles in one day/trip ).

"Thad O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The things I expect such a plan to do is to enable me to
build up suppleness/flexibility, strength and endurance.

While I can't address your other questions, I can answer som of those below.
Joyce Vedral puts out some good books for using weights. One is called "The
12 Minute Total Body Workout". The exercises use light weights and
techniques that really work your muscles hard!

Quoted message said:

It should allow me to miss a few days.( As few as possible,
but when you get older, there are these things called jobs...)
It should also allow substitutions of exercises, ( So if I
can't do exercise 1 to work on a bicep because of injury, I do
exercise 29 instead. ) and create rotations ( where some muscles
are given a rest on some days ) so that I don't overexercise.

The above book will do just that. You will be working different parts of
the body each day.

Quoted message said:

So now a few questions/comments on some of the more positive things
that came from my original post.

While I don't disagree with the general idea of doing Yoga, it
seems much of the time the exercises are just thrown out. I'm
looking for a plan ( comprehensive workout/with a good rotation
of exercises ). I suspect Tai Chi might be better for me though.

I haven't done Tai Chi. I do some Yoga, but mainly because the particular
stretches/poses seem to help me.

Quoted message said:

Someone suggested I get weights ( 1 -10 lbs ) or "straps"/bands. Can
someone talk about the advantages/disadvantages of weights vs bands?
For weights, which are preferable dumbells type weights, or the
kind that attach to your wrist/ankles?

I wouldn't advise wrist weights. I think they'd do nothing more than strain
your wrists. Dumbells can be used in a variety of ways to work the arms,
chest, shoulders and back. They can also be used for some leg exercises if
you are adept enough. I am not that adept and prefer the ankle weights.
Ankle weights are useful for leg lifts. I wouldn't advise walking around
with them on, which is what many people think is the thing to do. For some
reason, they think that by strapping these things on, they can go about
their day and get added excerise. What they are really doing is just
risking injury to their ankles. To use these weights (or any weights)
properly, form is very important. Not only can the wrong form cause injury,
but you might not be working the muscles you intend to be working if you
don't do the exercise properly.

I have a variety of weights. I started with a pair of 3 pound dumbbells and
worked up to 10 pound ones. Those got too easy for me. I then bought a set
of dumbells with removeable discs and bought additional disks so I can keep
adding more weight as needed. Now technically, you can do a variety of
exercises, adding or removing the weights as needed, but it's a pain to do
and time consuming. For that reason, I also keep my lighter weights handy.
I find that I can use pretty heavy weights for biceps curls, but not as
heavy for triceps kickbacks, and for shoulder exercises, I need lighter
still.

I have several pairs of ankle weights. I started with light ones, but
quickly outgrew them. I bought heavier ones, but over the years have
acquied additional sets, mainly because they were purchased while I was on
vacation. I try not to travel with the weights, but sometimes I need them
and was forced to buy them to give my bad knee some relief. So now, when I
need to up the amount of weight I'm using, I simply add more weights to my
legs, or hook additional weights to the ones I have on.

Exercise bands are great for travel because they're small and lightweight.
I also use mine at home occasionally because they seem to work the muscles
in a slightly different way than weights do and seeminly simple exercies
with them can really challenge the muscles! The main drawback with the
bands is that as you grow stronger, you'll need stronger and stronger bands,
so your muscles remain challenged. I found this to be true with the weights
as well. But if you get the weights where you can add discs, you can up the
weight inexpensively. The bands are a little more costly, and wear out much
quicker than weights will. Actually weights are pretty indestructable.
I've had mine for many years. My mom's had a little accident though. She
had the plastic dumbells filled with sand, and one of my friends dropped
one. It landed on the end on a tile floor and some sand leaked out. So
while this type *can* sustain damage, it's not likely. My daughter has the
cushy kind that are metal, covered with a comfortable foam. Or you can get
the el cheapo iron ones. I can't imagine how you could damage those! With
weights, the sky's the limit when it comes to increasing the weight. With
exercise bands, you can only get so much resistance. You can get stronger
and stronger bands, but you'll eventually top out and not be able to get any
more of a challenge to the muscles.

Quoted message said:

A final comment. Someone recommended books written by Joyce Vendral.
I've checked out a couple in the library, and they seem to be more
focused to women. Also I'm a little put off by the way she spammed
some of her books on Amazon.

That was me. And I recommended the book again. Yes, the books are focused
on women because she *is* a woman. But my husband also uses her techniques,
using heavier weights. And how could you spam books on Amazon? Amazon
sells books, among other things.

--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Why don't you just ante up & pay for a couple of consults with a p.t. &/or
athletic trainer. You have very particular requirements & likes & dislikes &
probably won't be satisfied with anything you can cobble together from books
or web sites.
bj

"Thad O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A while ago I asking for help in designing in an exercise program.
The responses ranged from awful to OK with nothing really great.
Some of the responses raised more questions. So I thought I would
repost my question. Clarifying it, and expanding on it.
.....

"Julie Bove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

weights, the sky's the limit when it comes to increasing the weight. With

exercise bands, you can only get so much resistance. You can get stronger
and stronger bands, but you'll eventually top out and not be able to get any
more of a challenge to the muscles.

Quoted message said:

True, the bands only go so "high" in resistance, but you can double up on
them, and also they get more resisty as they are stretched. I've done both,
to get tweaks on the resistance I need for a particular exercise.
bj

Maybe this site can help you out:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fitness_habit/index.htm

Thad O <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
time driving to and fro then I did in the gym. Checking the
situation out, there are no gyms which are conveniently
located. I live in a group environment, so noisy equipment
is out, and since I have very very little room ( not enough
free room to do an exercise video ) a lot of equipment is
out.

Bike to work! And/or to do errands. That way its easy to fit in both
exercise and a job. If you have access to a pool and enjoy swimming,
swimming can be good for upper body. Both biking and swimming should
be relatively easy on your body in terms of injuries, if you want to
take up something more impact-oriented like running you'll have to be
more careful.

If you have enough room to do situps and pushups those are good for
overall strength. You don't need fancy gym machines to get fit, and
some inexpensive handheld barbells can provide some resistance in
various exercises.

A lot of exercise comes down to just do it. Yes you could use X
equipment or Y equipment etc. but a lot of it just comes down to
personal preference, and often simple and low-tech will work just as
well or better than expensive and high-tech but it gadgety motivates
you then go for it.

"bj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

True, the bands only go so "high" in resistance, but you can double up on
them, and also they get more resisty as they are stretched. I've done

both,

Quoted message said:

to get tweaks on the resistance I need for a particular exercise.

I hadn't thought to double them. Thanks!

--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Thad O said:

A while ago I asking for help in designing in an exercise program.
The responses ranged from awful to OK with nothing really great.
...
But before I go on, there were a few answers which were... well
stupid. I'm tired of the people who post things which are
wrong ( in this case some were plain dangerous ). I guess some
guys have to make up for other... shortcomings, by pulling
a Cliff Claven act.
...
this advice was especially stupid.
...
The other stupid claim contends that upper body conditioning
is not useful in bicycling.
...
I bought it from Turin Cycling,
one of the premier bicycling shops in the Chicagoland area.
They know how to fit a bike. I've been riding for 30 years.
I know how to fit a bike.
...
As for gripping handlebars too tightly; I've been cycling for
thirty years. I know how to grip a bike. Not only do I have
all my experience ( once again 30 years ),
...
In the end, I believe that the idiots that put this forward,
are just plain lazy and don't want to do any upper body
conditioning.
...
My question(s):

I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
time driving to and fro then I did in the gym.
...
Like going out and doing a century
( which means 100 miles in one day/trip ).
...
I gotten to the point where you have a rough idea of what I
want. Let me now state the main question that I am asking.

*** Can people recommend books/web sites/anything else that
will help me design an exercise plan that meets the above criteria,
plus a few other things below. ***

Umm, are you a jerk? 'Cause you seem like you might be a jerk, and
very likely an ignoramus as well.

You spent a whole lot of text bloviating before asking your little
question. You dissed advice you got for free in an unrestricted public
forum, from people who were not in any way obliged to answer you. You
boasted repeatedly of your vast experience, then asked a question it's
difficult to imagine an experienced cyclist asking.

It seems to me that the developmental exercise you could most benefit
from is social and not physical:

See how long you can hold a face-to-face conversation with somebody
_without_ venturing your opinion, relating one of your experiences, or
otherwise talking about yourself.

Try to discover, for each person you interact with, something that
they understand much better than you do.

Reflect on the social and conversational equivalents of yielding the
right-of-way, and exercise these options at every convenient
opportunity.

Good luck getting the exercise you need!

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Thad O said:

A while ago I asking for help in designing in an exercise program.
The responses ranged from awful to OK with nothing really great.
...
But before I go on, there were a few answers which were... well
stupid. I'm tired of the people who post things which are
wrong ( in this case some were plain dangerous ). I guess some
guys have to make up for other... shortcomings, by pulling
a Cliff Claven act.
...
this advice was especially stupid. {snippage}

Quoted message said:

Umm, are you a jerk? 'Cause you seem like you might be a jerk, and
very likely an ignoramus as well.

You spent a whole lot of text bloviating before asking your little
question. You dissed advice you got for free in an unrestricted public
forum, from people who were not in any way obliged to answer you. You
boasted repeatedly of your vast experience, then asked a question it's
difficult to imagine an experienced cyclist asking.

It seems to me that the developmental exercise you could most benefit
from is social and not physical:

See how long you can hold a face-to-face conversation with somebody
_without_ venturing your opinion, relating one of your experiences, or
otherwise talking about yourself.

Try to discover, for each person you interact with, something that
they understand much better than you do.

Reflect on the social and conversational equivalents of yielding the
right-of-way, and exercise these options at every convenient
opportunity.

Good luck getting the exercise you need!

Bravisimo. Right On. Friggin' A.

Bill "that rocked" S.

MisNomer said:

The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is to ride the bike!

Bulshit.
If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone should be sufficient.
So why does Lance Armostring waste his time with weight training?
http://www.lancearmstrong.com/training/index.html

Thad O said:

MisNomer said:

The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is to ride the bike!

Bulshit.
If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone should be sufficient.
So why does Lance Armostring waste his time with weight training?

Because multiple days of racing consumes muscle. Building up a base
of muscle in the pre and early season means he can lose muscle mass
as the season progresses without losing critical strength. At the
end of the Tour, riders are weaker than when they started, but their
endurance level is (typically) higher.

Loss of muscle mass is not an issue for most riders, who don't put
in the long days of racing that a pro does. Resistance training has
other benefits for cyclists, such as core strength to prevent
injuries, but it doesn't build endurance. For building endurance,
there's no substitute for getting out and riding.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Thad O said:

MisNomer said:

The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is to ride
the bike!

Bulshit.
If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone should be sufficient.
So why does Lance Armostring waste his time with weight training?
http://www.lancearmstrong.com/training/index.html

So if you've got all the answers, Obnoxio, then why do you post a question
seeking advice and/or references in the first place?

Bill "Armostring?!? Bet he could kick YOUR ass" S.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:41:06 GMT, Thad O
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Snip large quantity of abusive, self delusional [censored] ...

Quoted message said:

So now a few questions/comments on some of the more positive things
that came from my original post.

While I don't disagree with the general idea of doing Yoga, it
seems much of the time the exercises are just thrown out. I'm
looking for a plan ( comprehensive workout/with a good rotation
of exercises ). I suspect Tai Chi might be better for me though.

Someone suggested I get weights ( 1 -10 lbs ) or "straps"/bands. Can
someone talk about the advantages/disadvantages of weights vs bands?
For weights, which are preferable dumbells type weights, or the
kind that attach to your wrist/ankles?

Get the kind that attach to your wrists, then just continue your normal
daily routine with just one small change. Change hands every half hour.
That will provide you with a form of vigorous exercise twenty-four hours
per day. More than enough to sort your problems out.

Cheers

David