Evening Standard on cyclists' deaths

Quoted message said:

. remember in roadside checks half of all
the lorries using our roads were deemed to dangerous to continue the
journey...

And the source of statistics supporting this assertion is?........

vernon said:

Quoted message said:

. remember in roadside checks half of all
the lorries using our roads were deemed to dangerous to continue the
journey...

And the source of statistics supporting this assertion is?........

Half of lorries fail safety test.

Half of all vehicles stopped in an operation to identify dangerous
lorries had fallen foul of safety regulations.

Police and officers from Customs and Excise and the Vehicle and
Operator Services Agency stopped 322 HGVs on roads in the South West
last week.

Two drivers were arrested, one for disqualified driving and another was
wanted for other offences.

Police said they used intelligence to target operators they suspected
of committing offences.

Mechanical defects found in 24 vehicles meant they were ordered off the
road immediately.

'Cause for concern'

A further 23 were given a prohibition for less serious maintenance
defects and given time to put them right.

Twenty one of the lorries checked were found to be overweight to such
an extent that they were stopped from driving further.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3834000/3834553.stm

How conscientious do you think lorry drivers are about cyclists when in
a spot check half of all lorries failed basic safety checks?

The weekend before last:

Find driver who hit our son

THE parents of a Harlow College student left fighting for his life
after a hit-and-run accident have appealed for help to find the lorry
driver responsible.

James Tredgett (16) was struck by a metal panel protruding from the
side of a flat-bed truck as he rode to college on his moped.

The youngster, from North Weald, suffered severe head injuries after
being knocked off his bike. He was taken to Princess Alexandra Hospital
before being transferred to Oldchurch Hospital in Romford where he
remains unconscious and in a critical but stable condition.

http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/news/star/2006/09/21/find%20driver%20who%20hit%20our%20son.lpf

Smash open a young lad's skull and drive off. Nice.

And sometimes it's worse than half of all lorries being death traps:

A roadside spot check in July of 63 foreign lorries showed 41 were not
totally roadworthy of which 18 were required to be detained. In another
initiative the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) checked 802
vehicles and 352 were found to be in a poor state. Of the 520 drivers
checked, one in four were found to be on the road longer than is
allowed.

http://www.injurywatch.co.uk/news-and-groups/news/road-traffic-accidents/foreign-lorries-a-danger-in-british-road-accidents-2196551

spindrift brought next idea :

This:

Quoted message said:

Police said they used intelligence to target operators they suspected
of committing offences.

Does not support this:

Quoted message said:

half of all lorries failed basic safety checks?

--
Simon

"spindrift" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

vernon said:

Quoted message said:

. remember in roadside checks half of all
the lorries using our roads were deemed to dangerous to continue the
journey...

And the source of statistics supporting this assertion is?........

Quoted message said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3834000/3834553.stm

The article does not support your sweeping assertion:

* The operation was regional, not national.

* It was an intelligence led operation which targeted companies/owners and
drivers known to be likely offenders.

* The story is over two years old and might not reflect state of affairs in
the South West or anywhere else for that matter.

Simon D said:

spindrift brought next idea :

This:

Quoted message said:

Police said they used intelligence to target operators they suspected
of committing offences.

Does not support this:

Quoted message said:

half of all lorries failed basic safety checks?

--
Simon

Here's a more recent sample:

At the end of March the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA)
took part in a multi agency check in Spalding, Lincolnshire. The check
was set up by Lincolnshire Police in response to the growing number of
fatal and serious injury road accidents involving minibuses that carry
foreign workers.

VOSA enforcement officers examined 37 vehicles during the check. Of the
37 vehicles 15 defective vehicles were issued with prohibition notices
- 80% of which meant immediate prohibition from driving the vehicle -
on safety critical systems such as braking systems, steering and
suspension systems and tyres. As a result of the check six minibus
operators were also reported for operating without the required
operator's licence. A large number of vehicles were also impounded by
the Police and the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) for
failing to demonstrate vehicle insurance and/or Vehicle Excise Duty.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/newsevents/newsreleases/04-04-06anothervosasuccessintargetingunsafeforeignvehicles.htm

That's around forty per cent of lorries being driven on the roads
qualifying for immediate removeal.

Room for complacency? I don't think so.

More than half again:

Mermaid nets unsafe lorries

Quoted message said:

From the Lancashire Evening Telegraph, first published Wednesday 26th

Jan 2000.

MORE than half the commercial vehicles targeted by Lancashire police in
the nationally co-ordinated Operation Mermaid were found to be
defective.

Police stopped 113 heavy and light goods vehicles last Thursday on the
motorway network and in the Samlesbury, Blackburn, Fleetwood and
Heysham areas.

They ordered 27 vehicles off the road immediately and handed out 28
warning notices, 10 defect notices, and also uncovered benefit fraud, a
stolen vehicle, and tachograph offences.

http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2000/1/26/743740.html

What's going on? Why are these nutcases allowed on the roads?

"Almost half" a worryingly common phrase:

Police slam 'complacent' HGV operators
The safety of road users is being "seriously compromised" by hundreds
of potentially deadly lorries and trucks on Britain's roads, police
have claimed.

Road safety was being put at risk by a "large proportion" of heavy
goods vehicle operators who have a complacent attitude toward
maintenance and driver behaviour, the Association of Chief Police
Officers (ACPO) said.

In a nationwide crackdown last month, police forces stopped almost
1,800 HGVs, around 300 of them from overseas. Officers found that
almost half either had safety defects - often with tyres or brakes - or
had drivers committing offences, such as working more than their safe
limit of hours.

Of the 842 vehicles found with offences, 236 were so unsafe that they
were immediately taken off the road, while a further 177 received
"delayed prohibitions". Almost two in five of the unsafe vehicles had
brake defects, while a quarter had unsafe tyres.

http://www.nu-riskservices.co.uk/news/articles/cms/1110309695212694732554_1.htm

Bad enough, how about 2 out of 3?

Monday, 25 September 2006, 13:22 GMT 14:22 UK

Lorries stopped in safety checks
A crackdown on lorries breaching safety rules found that two in three
heavy goods vehicles had defects or had over-run their legal driving
hours.
Northamptonshire Police checked 26 vehicles on Friday off the M1 at
Crick.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/5378604.stm

The HGV safety record is appalling, but I guess all these reports are
unrepresentative...

spindrift said:

Anyone see this yesterday? Pretty good article, it showed the dodgiest
junctions in London for cyclists and mentioned stiffer penalties for
killer drivers. 24 cyclists killed in the last year in London, half of
them by left-turning lorries like the one that killed the girl in
Fulham last week. She was stationary at the lights, the lorry pulled
up, swung left, and killed her. remember in roadside checks half of
all the lorries using our roads were deemed to dangerous to continue
the journey...

I don't know if it approved technique or not, but at left turn junctions
like that, if I'm at the front (or even in the line) I stop in the middle of
the lane to prevent anyone doing what the lorry did - ie I'm in front and he
cannot cut across me.

pk

vernon said:

"spindrift" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

vernon said:

>. remember in roadside checks half of all
> the lorries using our roads were deemed to dangerous to continue the
> journey...
>
And the source of statistics supporting this assertion is?........

Quoted message said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3834000/3834553.stm

The article does not support your sweeping assertion:

* The operation was regional, not national.

* It was an intelligence led operation which targeted companies/owners and
drivers known to be likely offenders.

* The story is over two years old and might not reflect state of affairs in
the South West or anywhere else for that matter.

vernon, please see the Norwich Union and BBC Northamptonshire stories
above.

spindrift wrote on 27/10/2006 08:58 +0100:

Quoted message said:

vernon said:

Quoted message said:

. remember in roadside checks half of all the lorries using our
roads were deemed to dangerous to continue the journey...

And the source of statistics supporting this assertion is?........

Half of lorries fail safety test.

Half of all vehicles stopped in an operation to identify dangerous
lorries had fallen foul of safety regulations.

I'm no fan of lorries but your data nowhere near supports your assertion
that "half of all the lorries using our roads were deemed to dangerous
to continue the journey"

First the police were targeting operators who were suspected of offences
- that's a bit like saying most of the UK population are drug addicts
based on arrests in a raid on a drug den.

Next they stopped 322 vehicles. Now I count 45 were not allowed to
continue, 24 for defects and 21 for overweight. A further 23 were
allowed to continue provided they agreed to fix the faults. So while
half "failed a safety test" only 14% were "deemed to dangerous to
continue the journey" - and that out of a targeted population.

Quoted message said:

How conscientious do you think lorry drivers are about cyclists when
in a spot check half of all lorries failed basic safety checks?

I suspect almost all bicycles would fail a safety test - reflectors on
the bike would fail most of them. Mine certainly would because I have
no reflectors on my clipless pedals. Does that make me reckless as a
cyclist? Failing a safety test on a lorry can cover a whole load of
similar minor issues of no relevance to the driver's concientiousness as
well as major issues like defective brakes and overloading.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

spindrift wrote on 27/10/2006 09:31 +0100:

Quoted message said:

At the end of March the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA)
took part in a multi agency check in Spalding, Lincolnshire. The
check was set up by Lincolnshire Police in response to the growing
number of fatal and serious injury road accidents involving minibuses
that carry foreign workers.

Quoted message said:

That's around forty per cent of lorries being driven on the roads
qualifying for immediate removeal.

Lorries? ITYM Minibuses

Quoted message said:

MORE than half the commercial vehicles targeted by Lancashire police
in the nationally co-ordinated Operation Mermaid were found to be
defective.

Police stopped 113 heavy and light goods vehicles last Thursday on
the motorway network and in the Samlesbury, Blackburn, Fleetwood and
Heysham areas.

Do you think that 113 represents all the heavy and light goods vehicles
that passed their checkpoints on the motorway and other places or do you
think that "targeted" might mean they preferentially pulled over the 113
that looked most likely to have problems while a much larger number were
allowed on their way without being stopped?

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci