The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing has the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no oxidation).
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with evacuated tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
Why not go one better and fill them with helium after evacuation and shave some more grams? 🙂
I'm not an engineer but the idea of the walls being in "tension" sounds fishy to me. Hopefully our engineers will discuss that for us.
Lyle
"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:104pa.563833$L1.164874@sccrnsc02...
Quoted message said:
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing
has
Quoted message said:
the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no
oxidation).
Quoted message said:
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with
evacuated
Quoted message said:
tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:104pa.563833$L1.164874@sccrnsc02...
Quoted message said:
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing
has
Quoted message said:
the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no
oxidation).
Quoted message said:
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with
evacuated
Quoted message said:
tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
Man! I'd get a new ISP if it took three weeks for my posts to reach a newsgroup.
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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"res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Why not go one better and fill them with helium after evacuation and shave some more grams? 🙂
How could helium be lighter than nothing?
It isn't, but it's lighter (less dense) than the N2, O2, CO2, Ar, etc. normally filling the tubes. (Now if only that He would stay put just as easily.)
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing has the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no oxidation).
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with evacuated tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
Barry
Sounds stupid to me... though I suppose if the welding was done in a vacuum then you could seal the top-tube, down-tube and the stays... but there would have to be no bottle bosses on the down tube..
Or is it that the tubes have internal walls to create a void that can then be evacuated? ...
hmmm ... I've heard of stupider things, but not often and usually a little closer to the first of the month.
It isn't, but it's lighter (less dense) than the N2, O2, CO2, Ar, etc. normally filling the tubes. (Now if only that He would stay put just as easily.)
Andy ("humid air is less dense - really"😉 Coggan
To get the maximum benefits of vacuum, you need to pull several atmospheres of vacuum, really put the ether in serious tension.
To maximize the lightness added by helium, use liquid helium so that more buoyancy can be crammed into the frame.
Titanium frames should be replaced with granite frames, since granite has lower density (look it up).
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Why not go one better and fill them with helium after evacuation and shave some more grams? 🙂
How could helium be lighter than nothing?
It isn't, but it's lighter (less dense) than the N2, O2, CO2, Ar, etc. normally filling the tubes. (Now if only that He would stay put just as easily.)
He said the tubes are _evacuated_, which means the air has been pumped out, and they are now in a vacuum. The main thing which jumped out at me is that he said the tubes were under tension, when actually they would be in compression if the insides were evacuated.
-- David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord, it's morning".
"archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
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"]news:[email hidden]...
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"res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... > Why not go one better and fill them with helium after evacuation and shave some more grams? > 🙂
How could helium be lighter than nothing?
It isn't, but it's lighter (less dense) than the N2, O2, CO2, Ar, etc. normally filling the tubes. (Now if only that He would stay put just as easily.)
He said the tubes are _evacuated_, which means the air has been pumped out, and they are now in a vacuum. The main thing which jumped out at me is that he said the tubes were under tension, when actually they would be in compression if the insides were evacuated.
JFT said nothing about tubes being evacuated or being under tension - for some strange reason did you think I was responding to the original poster??
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
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"archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"]news:[email hidden]... > "res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > "]news:[email hidden]... > > Why not go one better and fill them with helium after evacuation and shave some more > > grams? 🙂 > > How could helium be lighter than nothing?
It isn't, but it's lighter (less dense) than the N2, O2, CO2, Ar, etc. normally filling the tubes. (Now if only that He would stay put just as easily.)
He said the tubes are _evacuated_, which means the air has been pumped out, and they are now in a vacuum. The main thing which jumped out at me is that he said the tubes were under tension, when actually they would be in compression if the insides were evacuated.
JFT said nothing about tubes being evacuated or being under tension - for some strange reason did you think I was responding to the original poster??
It was a combined response to JFT's, yours and the OP. My point was that helium would be lighter than an air-filled frame, but not as light as a vacuum-filled one, and that the OP's mention of an evacuated frame being under _tension_ was incorrect; it would be under compression.
-- David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord, it's morning".
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing has the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no oxidation).
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with evacuated tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
Barry
Have you ever seen the high school experiment where you fill a can (any can) with a teaspoon of water, then heat, cap tightly, and douse with cold water? Watch it crumble. Same thing happens to water towers if the relief valve fails.
The forces on the tubes would be so huge that the walls would have to be so thick - the bulk of the forces would be applied to the walls of the tube and not the endpoints. Seems that we need to look at post-tensioned bicycle frames to achieve the right effect - run a cable down the center of each tube, tension to several hundred (or thousand) pounds....
Hmmmm.. A bicycle frame that can double as a 3 string guitar.....
"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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B. Sanders said:
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing has the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no oxidation).
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with evacuated tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
Barry
Have you ever seen the high school experiment where you fill a can (any can) with a teaspoon of water, then heat, cap tightly, and douse with cold water? Watch it crumble. Same thing happens to water towers if the relief valve fails.
The forces on the tubes would be so huge that the walls would have to be so thick - the bulk of the forces would be applied to the walls of the tube and not the endpoints. Seems that we need to look at post-tensioned bicycle frames to achieve the right effect - run a cable down the center of each tube, tension to several hundred (or thousand) pounds....
I think one of the land speed record vehicles used pressurized tubular framework with sensors. The idea was that if the frame cracked anywhere, the pressure would drop and sound an alarm.
I think one of the land speed record vehicles used pressurized tubular framework with sensors. The idea was that if the frame cracked anywhere, the pressure would drop and sound an alarm.
Porsche 917, two-seat long-distance racing car. Although IIRC there was no alarm, just a pressure gauge.
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
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"archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
Quoted message said:
>"]news:[email hidden]... > >>"res09c5t" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>"]news:[email hidden]... >> >>>Why not go one better and fill them with helium after evacuation and shave some more grams? 🙂 >> >>How could helium be lighter than nothing? > >It isn't, but it's lighter (less dense) than the N2, O2, CO2, Ar, etc. normally filling the >tubes. (Now if only that He would stay put just as easily.)
He said the tubes are _evacuated_, which means the air has been pumped out, and they are now in a vacuum. The main thing which jumped out at me is that he said the tubes were under tension, when actually they would be in compression if the insides were evacuated.
JFT said nothing about tubes being evacuated or being under tension - for some strange reason did you think I was responding to the original poster??
It was a combined response to JFT's, yours and the OP. My point was that helium would be lighter than an air-filled frame, but not as light as a vacuum-filled one, and that the OP's mention of an evacuated frame being under _tension_ was incorrect; it would be under compression.
yes and have you ever evacuated an Al can and then tapped the surface? it collapses!
"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:104pa.563833$L1.164874@sccrnsc02...
Quoted message said:
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing
has
Quoted message said:
the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no
oxidation).
Quoted message said:
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with
evacuated
Quoted message said:
tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:104pa.563833$L1.164874@sccrnsc02...
Quoted message said:
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing
has
Quoted message said:
the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no
oxidation).
Quoted message said:
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with
evacuated
Quoted message said:
tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver.
Shameless troll!!! Back under the bridge!! Back!!
okay, silly idea. but does anybody remember the helium-filled tubes of the 60's and 70's? to be honest, i don't actually *remember* them...they were the sort of rumors you'd hear waiting for your race to start, stories about rich guys who even drilled out their water bottle cages...
"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<104pa.563833$L1.164874@sccrnsc02>...
Quoted message said:
The new evacuated frame tubing is the final frontier for the gram shaver. According to the manufacturers, it produces a stronger, yet measurably lighter frame by holding the tubing walls in tension (like the spokes of a wheel) due to the internal vacuum. It's especially effective for thin-walled large-diameter aluminum frame tubing. Evacuated teel tubing has the added benefit of permanent rust prevention (no air means no oxidation).
Has anybody tried one of the early-mid-year 2004 frames built with evacuated tubing (known to framebuilders by various brand names like "NoAir", "UltraVac" and "Evac Elite"😉? I'm curious to know more about the special handling characteristics of this new frame technology.
Barry
The cyclists I know who've bought evacuated tubing frames say they really suck. Especially if they leak.
If you need to save weight, try a Voler-par-la-Nuit(tm) seatless seatpost. But you'll have to wait until next April 1st. This year's production run sold out immediately.
