Equipment To Blame

Time Cop said:

Quoted message said:

Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow "We went
into the final circuit in perfect position - just off
the front of the peloton, three of our riders right
ahead of Max van Heeswijk in-line. But as they came
down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
having drive-train problems. His chain came off once
and he managed to shift and get it back on, the boys
up front still working to set up him up perfectly for
the sprint finish. Then at 400 meters, disaster - on
the verge of the highest speeds of the race his chain
came off again and there was simply no way he could
recover with that short a distance left and contest
the sprint. He basically had to sit up and roll into
the finish - oh-so-close, but that's bike racing..."

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
bad crash.

Nah, probably the mechanic who worked on the bike will get
40 lashes with an al-dente noodle. Remember, Max opened the
races with a successful sprint.

Time Cop said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of the
1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record
titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a bad crash.

I don't think that happened in the Giro. It was in the
Autumn Grand Prix or Blois-Chaville or some version of a
fall classic in France.

JT

Time Cop said:

wrote:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product.

I don't do Shimano, but it's the mechanic's fault here, not
the manufacturer's.

Time Cop <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

wrote: Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's
Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

Tell me THAT picture isn't out in the internet somewhere. No
helmet Figgy sitting dazed on the Pavment with a pedal and
crankarm still strapped to his foot.

And like the end of a lot of races back then he was waaaay
off the front too.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jay Hill

BTime Cop said:

wrote:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product.

I don't do Shimano, but it's the mechanic's fault here, not
the manufacturer's. [/B]

Hmmm... there are plenty of things waiting to go wrong in 150-200 kms. Maybe a pebble hit his drivetrain during the course and put it outa whack? Heck... a piece of plastic will do the same thing, or a twig, piece of string, etc etc.

So I doubt there will be more than a litttle cursing

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow "We went
into the final circuit in perfect position - just off
the front of the peloton, three of our riders right
ahead of Max van Heeswijk in-line. But as they came
down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
having drive-train problems. His chain came off once
and he managed to shift and get it back on, the boys
up front still working to set up

him

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up perfectly for the sprint finish. Then at 400
meters, disaster - on the verge of the highest
speeds of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

race his chain came off again and there was simply no
way he could recover with that short a distance left
and contest the sprint. He basically had to sit up and
roll into the finish - oh-so-close, but that's bike
racing..."

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech Wallone?)
in 1983 where he was OTF with a good chance to win. If it
also happened in the 1982 Giro, then he deserved to fall the
second time. He looked absolutely stunned sitting on the
ground as the group was bearing down on him. That was one of
the great cycling photos of the era.

I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had
been using a lot of experimental ultra-light (for the
times) gear and not always the components sold by Campag. A
lot of that [censored] was CP (so called "commercially pure"😉
titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically all that
are used now) were very hard to come by before the Soviet
Union imploded.

Now that I think about it, I think I recall a pedal spindle
breaking at a critical moment. Is that what happened in the
Giro? I can still see Larry on the ground with one crank
sitting there separate from his bike and that was definitely
not the Giro...

In 1984 Team Renault got rid of all CP titanium and also
went to the 400 gram (very robust) Mavic SSC rims. It did
nothing to slow them down since Fignon stil took the Tour,
Barteaux had the MJ from the 14th until Larry wanted it,
Mottet won the Tour of the Future. The only measure of
failure that year was all about Hinault leaving for the new
LVC team. Results like that set back weight weenies at least
a decade or more.

This is all second hand info other than seeing Larry on the
ground (I also saw the SSC rims in use for road stages), so
it may not be totally accurate.

Chris said:

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech
Wallone?) in 1983 where he was OTF with a good chance to
win.

I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version of
that race..

JT

Oh, I remember so many people who crashed due to their
obsession with using Campy titanium parts on crucial load-
bearing, moving parts. I've seen them break so many times, I
lost count.

Time Cop <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow "We went
into the final circuit in perfect position - just off
the front of the peloton, three of our riders right
ahead of Max van Heeswijk in-line. But as they came
down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
having drive-train problems. His chain came off once
and he managed to shift and get it back on, the boys
up front still working to set up him up perfectly for
the sprint finish. Then at 400 meters, disaster - on
the verge of the highest speeds of the race his chain
came off again and there was simply no way he could
recover with that short a distance left and contest
the sprint. He basically had to sit up and roll into
the finish - oh-so-close, but that's bike racing..."

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
bad crash.

--

In article <[email hidden]>, kaiser

Quoted message said:

Oh, I remember so many people who crashed due to their
obsession with using Campy titanium parts on crucial load-
bearing, moving parts. I've seen them break so many times,
I lost count.

Nothing stronger than drilled out Zeus cranks and
deraillers! I never did perfect my plan for drilled out
spokes... I blame the lawyers.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chris said:

I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had
been using a lot of experimental ultra-light (for the
times) gear and not always the components sold by Campag.
A lot of that [censored] was CP (so called "commercially pure"😉
titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically all
that are used now) were very hard to come by before the
Soviet Union imploded.

It's true that a lot of early Ti components were made of
CP. There are a few different grades of it, but none of
it is all that tough. Once the aerospace industry got
opened up a bit in the mid to late '80s, a bunch of much
better varieties of titanium started being used, such as
6Al4V (which is what almost all Ti components are made of
now). A lot of titanium does come out of the former
Soviet area.

Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if
not the first) commercially available titanium frames.
Those were made from CP, but that was just one of the
problems with them.

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, "Chris"

Quoted message said:

I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team
had been using a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of experimental ultra-light (for the times) gear and not
always the components sold by Campag. A lot of that [censored]
was CP (so called "commercially pure"😉 titanium and
reliable titanium alloys (practically

all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that are used now) were very hard to come by before the
Soviet Union imploded.

It's true that a lot of early Ti components were made
of CP. There are

a

Quoted message said:

few different grades of it, but none of it is all that
tough. Once the aerospace industry got opened up a bit in
the mid to late '80s, a bunch of much better varieties of
titanium started being used, such as 6Al4V (which is what
almost all Ti components are made of now). A lot of
titanium does come out of the former Soviet area.

Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if
not the first) commercially available titanium frames.
Those were made from CP, but that was just one of the
problems with them.

Yup, I remember all of that. I also remember early Colnago
ti models failing when he used CP tubes, even after American
manufacturers were using alloys. I really liked the twin
down tube design that Colnago had at one point in steel
alloy, carbon fiber and CP ti. The ti frames were known to
break. A lot of folks must have assumed Colnago would use
the same alloy that all of the US producers were using.

For a while, the only alloy ti frames were produced in the
US but now CP ti is gone from cycling as far as I can tell.

Quoted message said:

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech
Wallone?) in 1983

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he was OTF with a good chance to win.

I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version
of that race..

JT

The weather was nice like late spring but you may be right.
Can anyone confirm the Giro incident?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chris said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:YOURhoward-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of
(if not the first) commercially available titanium
frames. Those were made from CP, but that was just
one of the problems with them.

Yup, I remember all of that. I also remember early
Colnago ti models failing when he used CP tubes, even
after American manufacturers were using alloys. I really
liked the twin down tube design that Colnago had at one
point in steel alloy, carbon fiber and CP ti. The ti
frames were known to break. A lot of folks must have
assumed Colnago would use the same alloy that all of the
US producers were using.

I have a mid '90s Colnago BiTitan. I do know that a bunch
of those broke, but mine's still going. I gotta say, it
is one creaky frame. It certainly isn't any stiffer than
anything else on the market (that was the selling point
of the twin tubes - ha!) and probably most carbon frames
are stiffer and ride nicer.

Quoted message said:

For a while, the only alloy ti frames were produced in
the US but now CP ti is gone from cycling as far as I
can tell.

And that's a good thing. I sure make a lot of parts out
of it at work sometimes. I'd much rather run 6-4.

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
> getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me
> of the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo
> Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
> resulting in a bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech
Wallone?) in 1983

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he was OTF with a good chance to win.

I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version
of that race..

JT

The weather was nice like late spring but you may be
right. Can anyone confirm the Giro incident?

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original
poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened with about 20
K to finish.

[email hidden] (brian roth) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original
poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened with about
20 K to finish.

I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can host
it.

"brian roth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (brian roth) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The
original poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened
with about 20 K to finish.

I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can
host it.

Someone posted a link to it a year or so ago. I tried
googling, but didn't find it.

I did find this crazy thing, though:

/www.zientzia.net/informazioa/elhuyar/1994/82/images/A82027-
e.jpg

brian roth said:

[email hidden] (brian roth) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original
poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened with about
20 K to finish.

I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can
host it.

dragonswest.comfignon.jpgOpen ↗