Equipment To Blame

Time Cop said:

Quoted message said:

Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow
"We went into the final circuit in perfect position - just off the
front of the peloton, three of our riders right ahead of Max van
Heeswijk in-line.
But as they came down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
having drive-train problems. His chain came off once and he managed to
shift and get it back on, the boys up front still working to set up him
up perfectly for the sprint finish.
Then at 400 meters, disaster - on the verge of the highest speeds of the
race his chain came off again and there was simply no way he could
recover with that short a distance left and contest the sprint. He
basically had to sit up and roll into the finish - oh-so-close, but
that's bike racing..."

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

Nah, probably the mechanic who worked on the bike will get 40 lashes
with an al-dente noodle. Remember, Max opened the races with a
successful sprint.

Time Cop said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

I don't think that happened in the Giro. It was in the Autumn Grand
Prix or Blois-Chaville or some version of a fall classic in France.

JT

Time Cop said:

wrote:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product.

I don't do Shimano, but it's the mechanic's fault here, not the
manufacturer's.

Time Cop <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

wrote:
Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

Tell me THAT picture isn't out in the internet somewhere. No helmet
Figgy sitting dazed on the Pavment with a pedal and crankarm still
strapped to his foot.

And like the end of a lot of races back then he was waaaay off the
front too.

Jay Hill said:

Time Cop said:

wrote:
Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product.

I don't do Shimano, but it's the mechanic's fault here, not the
manufacturer's.

Hmmm... there are plenty of things waiting to go wrong in 150-200 kms.
Maybe a pebble hit his drivetrain during the course and put it outa
whack? Heck... a piece of plastic will do the same thing, or a twig,
piece of string, etc etc.

So I doubt there will be more than a litttle cursing

--

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow
"We went into the final circuit in perfect position - just off the
front of the peloton, three of our riders right ahead of Max van
Heeswijk in-line.
But as they came down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
having drive-train problems. His chain came off once and he managed to
shift and get it back on, the boys up front still working to set up

him

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up perfectly for the sprint finish.
Then at 400 meters, disaster - on the verge of the highest speeds of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

race his chain came off again and there was simply no way he could
recover with that short a distance left and contest the sprint. He
basically had to sit up and roll into the finish - oh-so-close, but
that's bike racing..."

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech Wallone?) in 1983 where
he was OTF with a good chance to win. If it also happened in the 1982 Giro,
then he deserved to fall the second time. He looked absolutely stunned
sitting on the ground as the group was bearing down on him. That was one of
the great cycling photos of the era.

I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had been using a lot
of experimental ultra-light (for the times) gear and not always the
components sold by Campag. A lot of that [censored] was CP (so called
"commercially pure"😉 titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically all
that are used now) were very hard to come by before the Soviet Union
imploded.

Now that I think about it, I think I recall a pedal spindle breaking at a
critical moment. Is that what happened in the Giro? I can still see Larry on
the ground with one crank sitting there separate from his bike and that was
definitely not the Giro...

In 1984 Team Renault got rid of all CP titanium and also went to the 400
gram (very robust) Mavic SSC rims. It did nothing to slow them down since
Fignon stil took the Tour, Barteaux had the MJ from the 14th until Larry
wanted it, Mottet won the Tour of the Future. The only measure of failure
that year was all about Hinault leaving for the new LVC team. Results like
that set back weight weenies at least a decade or more.

This is all second hand info other than seeing Larry on the ground (I also
saw the SSC rims in use for road stages), so it may not be totally accurate.

Chris said:

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech Wallone?) in 1983 where
he was OTF with a good chance to win.

I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version of that
race..

JT

Oh, I remember so many people who crashed due to their obsession with
using Campy titanium parts on crucial load-bearing, moving parts.
I've seen them break so many times, I lost count.

Time Cop <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow
"We went into the final circuit in perfect position - just off the
front of the peloton, three of our riders right ahead of Max van
Heeswijk in-line.
But as they came down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
having drive-train problems. His chain came off once and he managed to
shift and get it back on, the boys up front still working to set up him
up perfectly for the sprint finish.
Then at 400 meters, disaster - on the verge of the highest speeds of the
race his chain came off again and there was simply no way he could
recover with that short a distance left and contest the sprint. He
basically had to sit up and roll into the finish - oh-so-close, but
that's bike racing..."

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

--

In article <[email hidden]>, kaiser

Quoted message said:

Oh, I remember so many people who crashed due to their obsession with
using Campy titanium parts on crucial load-bearing, moving parts.
I've seen them break so many times, I lost count.

Nothing stronger than drilled out Zeus cranks and deraillers! I never
did perfect my plan for drilled out spokes... I blame the lawyers.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chris said:

I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had been using a lot
of experimental ultra-light (for the times) gear and not always the
components sold by Campag. A lot of that [censored] was CP (so called
"commercially pure"😉 titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically all
that are used now) were very hard to come by before the Soviet Union
imploded.

It's true that a lot of early Ti components were made of CP. There are a
few different grades of it, but none of it is all that tough. Once the
aerospace industry got opened up a bit in the mid to late '80s, a bunch of
much better varieties of titanium started being used, such as 6Al4V (which
is what almost all Ti components are made of now). A lot of titanium does
come out of the former Soviet area.

Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if not the first)
commercially available titanium frames. Those were made from CP, but that
was just one of the problems with them.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chris said:

I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had been using a

lot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of experimental ultra-light (for the times) gear and not always the
components sold by Campag. A lot of that [censored] was CP (so called
"commercially pure"😉 titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically

all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that are used now) were very hard to come by before the Soviet Union
imploded.

It's true that a lot of early Ti components were made of CP. There are

a

Quoted message said:

few different grades of it, but none of it is all that tough. Once the
aerospace industry got opened up a bit in the mid to late '80s, a bunch of
much better varieties of titanium started being used, such as 6Al4V (which
is what almost all Ti components are made of now). A lot of titanium does
come out of the former Soviet area.

Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if not the first)
commercially available titanium frames. Those were made from CP, but that
was just one of the problems with them.

Yup, I remember all of that. I also remember early Colnago ti models failing
when he used CP tubes, even after American manufacturers were using alloys.
I really liked the twin down tube design that Colnago had at one point in
steel alloy, carbon fiber and CP ti. The ti frames were known to break. A
lot of folks must have assumed Colnago would use the same alloy that all of
the US producers were using.

For a while, the only alloy ti frames were produced in the US but now CP ti
is gone from cycling as far as I can tell.

Quoted message said:

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
resulting in a bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech Wallone?) in 1983

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he was OTF with a good chance to win.

I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version of that
race..

JT

The weather was nice like late spring but you may be right. Can anyone
confirm the Giro incident?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Chris said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if not the first)
commercially available titanium frames. Those were made from CP, but that
was just one of the problems with them.

Yup, I remember all of that. I also remember early Colnago ti models failing
when he used CP tubes, even after American manufacturers were using alloys.
I really liked the twin down tube design that Colnago had at one point in
steel alloy, carbon fiber and CP ti. The ti frames were known to break. A
lot of folks must have assumed Colnago would use the same alloy that all of
the US producers were using.

I have a mid '90s Colnago BiTitan. I do know that a bunch of those
broke, but mine's still going. I gotta say, it is one creaky frame. It
certainly isn't any stiffer than anything else on the market (that was the
selling point of the twin tubes - ha!) and probably most carbon frames are
stiffer and ride nicer.

Quoted message said:

For a while, the only alloy ti frames were produced in the US but now CP ti
is gone from cycling as far as I can tell.

And that's a good thing. I sure make a lot of parts out of it at work
sometimes. I'd much rather run 6-4.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"Time Cop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone
> call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent
> Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
> resulting in a bad crash.

Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech Wallone?) in 1983

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he was OTF with a good chance to win.

I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version of that
race..

JT

The weather was nice like late spring but you may be right. Can anyone
confirm the Giro incident?

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original poster had
the correct year, 1982. It happened with about 20 K to finish.

[email hidden] (brian roth) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original poster had
the correct year, 1982. It happened with about 20 K to finish.

I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can host it.

"brian roth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (brian roth) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original poster had
the correct year, 1982. It happened with about 20 K to finish.

I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can host it.

Someone posted a link to it a year or so ago. I tried googling, but didn't
find it.

I did find this crazy thing, though:

http://www.zientzia.net/informazioa/elhuyar/1994/82/images/A82027-e.jpg

brian roth said:

[email hidden] (brian roth) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original poster had
the correct year, 1982. It happened with about 20 K to finish.

I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can host it.

http://www.dragonswest.com/rbr/fignon.jpg