Ephedra Ban

how can they, easy for the Bush Administration, After all, several states
have all ready banned it, so follow the leader. Sure banning it will look.
It did with alcohol. Just go to ephridrine.

"ivankodude" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government. How can a country where
cigarettes kill 440,000 (source american Lung association)
and Alcohol abuse accounts for approximately 98,000 deaths annually
ban ephedra. I have read all of the reports they made available and
there is no definitive link in them to the dangers they are saying
exist. Everything is stated as Most likely or probably, or
contributing factor to etc. etc

If you are as upset about this as I am below are the email addresses
Mark McClellan(Fda Commissioner) and Tommy Thompson.(Secretary Health
and Human Services) I am not certain that we will change their minds
but at least let your voice be heard. Last I checked we are still a
democracy.

[email hidden]- McClellan
[email hidden]- Thompson

Quoted message said:

Subject: Ephedra Ban
From: [email hidden] (ivankodude)
Date: 12/30/03 9:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government. How can a country where
cigarettes kill 440,000 (source american Lung association)
and Alcohol abuse accounts for approximately 98,000 deaths annually
ban ephedra. I have read all of the reports they made available and
there is no definitive link in them to the dangers they are saying
exist. Everything is stated as Most likely or probably, or
contributing factor to etc. etc

What about deaths from prescribed medications? We are still arguing about
whether it is 150,000 per year or 350,000 per year, not whether or not the
deaths are occuring. The FDA is not about protecting the public, it is about
protecting the pharmaceutical/medical industry. The pharmaceutical industry
does not and cannot profit from the herbal area due to our laws.

Quoted message said:

Last I checked we are still a
democracy.

Nope, mis-informed again. The United States of America, all 50 of the states,
are not a democracy. We are a REPUBLIC!!

Learn the difference. Know the difference. Protect the difference. Vote for
the difference.

DrC PhD

In article said:

Nope, mis-informed again. The United States of America, all 50 of the states,
are not a democracy. We are a REPUBLIC!!

Theoretically you are correct, but we no longer function that way. Or you
might say that our elected representatives are now such cowards that, assuming
they DO have the intelligence to make wise decisions, they choose instead to
follow the lead of the dumbest of their constituents because apparently only the
dumb ones choose to vote anymore.

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to: [email hidden]
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

"ivankodude" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government.

This took today's decision? I guess you were cheering it on before.

-paul

"ivankodude" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government. How can a country where
cigarettes kill 440,000 (source american Lung association)
and Alcohol abuse accounts for approximately 98,000 deaths annually
ban ephedra. I have read all of the reports they made available and
there is no definitive link in them to the dangers they are saying
exist. Everything is stated as Most likely or probably, or
contributing factor to etc. etc

If you are as upset about this as I am below are the email addresses
Mark McClellan(Fda Commissioner) and Tommy Thompson.(Secretary Health
and Human Services) I am not certain that we will change their minds
but at least let your voice be heard. Last I checked we are still a
democracy.

I mailed both of them a card saying:

GREAT JOB! What took you so long?

I also emailed my CongressCritters and asked them to get the law passed that
would amed DSHEA to untie the hands of the FDA.. It took too many dead and
sick bodies to ban this evil chemical.

"Mark ProbertDecember 31, 2002" <[email hidden]>
wrote in

Quoted message said:

I also emailed my CongressCritters and asked them to get the law passed that
would amed DSHEA to untie the hands of the FDA.. It took too many dead and
sick bodies to ban this evil chemical.

Behold! the embodiment of stupidity! The only evil I see is your
ignorance and blindfolds.

pete

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Ephedra Ban
From: [email hidden] (pete)
Date: 12/31/2003 6:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Mark ProbertDecember 31, 2002" <[email hidden]>
wrote in

Quoted message said:

I also emailed my CongressCritters and asked them to get the law passed

that

Quoted message said:

would amed DSHEA to untie the hands of the FDA.. It took too many dead and
sick bodies to ban this evil chemical.

Behold! the embodiment of stupidity! The only evil I see is your
ignorance and blindfolds.

pete

You got that right. Mark speaks of chemicals and gives his child Ritalin.

Jan

[email hidden] (ivankodude) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government. How can a country where
cigarettes kill 440,000 (source american Lung association)
and Alcohol abuse accounts for approximately 98,000 deaths annually
ban ephedra. I have read all of the reports they made available and
there is no definitive link in them to the dangers they are saying
exist. Everything is stated as Most likely or probably, or
contributing factor to etc. etc

If you are as upset about this as I am below are the email addresses
Mark McClellan(Fda Commissioner) and Tommy Thompson.(Secretary Health
and Human Services) I am not certain that we will change their minds
but at least let your voice be heard. Last I checked we are still a
democracy.

[email hidden]- McClellan
[email hidden]- Thompson

I've been disappointed long before this decision. But get used it,
things will only get worse. We still enjoy many freedoms that other
"civilized" nations do not (i.e. most of Europe), however we are
headed straight for their same massive buerocracy. My opinion on the
matter is that they are attempting to set a precedent for full
regualtion of the supplement industry.
As far as the cigs and alcohol are concerned, they are legal because
of their massive abuse. More users, more tax money. They call it a
'sin tax', very interesting, considering the fact it's a converse
deception:
The tax is claimed to exist because the product is bad (sinful and
harmful) and addictive. The tax will act to deter the user. But in
reality, since the products are addictive, the gov't. knows the
behavior will continue, keeping the tax money rolling in.
It gets worse- those 440,000 people dying a year- that's a [censored]
of money saved on SS and Medicare. 10,15,20 years off someone's
life-that's a lot of Social Security savings. Plus, tobacco companies
pay the gov't. to recoup money Medicare 'LOST' by paying for the
smokers' medical care.
They clean up on both ends, bleeding us dry, bleeding smokers dry,
allowing the deaths to continue. And they just laugh, collecting both
taxes and lawsuit dollars.
Remember the steroid ban in 1990, that was surely for our health.

"Synthon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (ivankodude) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government. How can a country where
cigarettes kill 440,000 (source american Lung association)
and Alcohol abuse accounts for approximately 98,000 deaths annually
ban ephedra. I have read all of the reports they made available and
there is no definitive link in them to the dangers they are saying
exist. Everything is stated as Most likely or probably, or
contributing factor to etc. etc

If you are as upset about this as I am below are the email addresses
Mark McClellan(Fda Commissioner) and Tommy Thompson.(Secretary Health
and Human Services) I am not certain that we will change their minds
but at least let your voice be heard. Last I checked we are still a
democracy.

[email hidden]- McClellan
[email hidden]- Thompson

I've been disappointed long before this decision. But get used it,
things will only get worse. We still enjoy many freedoms that other
"civilized" nations do not (i.e. most of Europe), however we are
headed straight for their same massive buerocracy. My opinion on the
matter is that they are attempting to set a precedent for full
regualtion of the supplement industry.
As far as the cigs and alcohol are concerned, they are legal because
of their massive abuse. More users, more tax money. They call it a
'sin tax', very interesting, considering the fact it's a converse
deception:
The tax is claimed to exist because the product is bad (sinful and
harmful) and addictive. The tax will act to deter the user. But in
reality, since the products are addictive, the gov't. knows the
behavior will continue, keeping the tax money rolling in.
It gets worse- those 440,000 people dying a year- that's a [censored]
of money saved on SS and Medicare. 10,15,20 years off someone's
life-that's a lot of Social Security savings. Plus, tobacco companies
pay the gov't. to recoup money Medicare 'LOST' by paying for the
smokers' medical care.
They clean up on both ends, bleeding us dry, bleeding smokers dry,
allowing the deaths to continue. And they just laugh, collecting both
taxes and lawsuit dollars.
Remember the steroid ban in 1990, that was surely for our health.

Although I am not in favor of "sin tax," the rate of teenage smoking is
going down, and I can't help but think that part of the reason is that many
kids cannot afford a $100/week habit.

--Rich

"pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark ProbertDecember 31, 2002" <[email hidden]>
wrote in

Quoted message said:

I also emailed my CongressCritters and asked them to get the law passed

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would amed DSHEA to untie the hands of the FDA.. It took too many dead

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sick bodies to ban this evil chemical.

Behold! the embodiment of stupidity! The only evil I see is your
ignorance and blindfolds.

Hi Pete. Happy New Year.

Can you respond on the merits?

Thanks.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Ephedra Ban
From: [email hidden] (pete)
Date: 12/31/2003 6:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Mark ProbertDecember 31, 2002" <[email hidden]>
wrote in

Quoted message said:

I also emailed my CongressCritters and asked them to get the law passed

that

Quoted message said:

would amed DSHEA to untie the hands of the FDA.. It took too many dead

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sick bodies to ban this evil chemical.

Behold! the embodiment of stupidity! The only evil I see is your
ignorance and blindfolds.

pete

You got that right. Mark speaks of chemicals and gives his child Ritalin.

And you are a moron who hates children.

"Mark ProbertJanuary 1, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Can you respond on the merits?

What merits? There are plenty of studies showing the effectiveness and
safety of ephedra. The GAO has reported as much to congress before.
Anecdotal nonsense about ephedra being a contributing factor in this death
or that is just that: anecdotal nonsense. Hard data is on the side of
ephedra, nonsense knee jerk panic on the side of the ban. There any number
of freely available substances which can 'contribute' to someone's death
were they to be misused or abused, such as water, aspirin, multivitamins,
etc. Cough drops are often abused for the DXM content because it gives a
pretty intense, almost hallucinogenic high. Problem is it can also kill
you. Shall we ban cough drops?

The "merits" of the case against ephedra are dubious at best.

--
Yrs,
Richard H. Araujo
"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese."
Gilbert Keith Chesterton

I will continue to post on my forum for the dreaded results that can be
experienced from stimulants.
I continue to believe that the Phen-Phen affair was not caused by the person
using the diet drug, but by a second person using the drug and affecting
another person.
This drug was so popular that it spawned social settings for people to get
together and support each other in using this drug to lose weight.
It was inevitable that problems arose, with so many people gathering together,
becoming acquainted, perhaps forming friendships, thus one person's use of the
drug affecting another.
It may sound far out, but at the time I was waiting for the ball to fall just
as it did.
Again, I have no problem if a person wishes to use the stimulant and it would
only harm the user, but sadly, it affects a non-user by the mind connection.
Again the website is
http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm
Also refer to the newsgroup
Alt support crohns-colitis to understand what the stupid illness "crohns" can
do, and what most people's surgical and strong medications are in use, but a
simple tactic such as search for the stimulant user and go from there is not an
option. It is after all, too easy or too complicated, as the case may be, to
try.
Surgery, 6MP, prednisone et al is so much easier to accept mentally. SAD.

Gail

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Synthon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (ivankodude) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have used Ephedra products for over 10 years and the only thing I
have gotten is great results. Todays decision has left
me very disappointed with our government. How can a country where
cigarettes kill 440,000 (source american Lung association)
and Alcohol abuse accounts for approximately 98,000 deaths annually
ban ephedra. I have read all of the reports they made available and
there is no definitive link in them to the dangers they are saying
exist. Everything is stated as Most likely or probably, or
contributing factor to etc. etc

If you are as upset about this as I am below are the email addresses
Mark McClellan(Fda Commissioner) and Tommy Thompson.(Secretary Health
and Human Services) I am not certain that we will change their minds
but at least let your voice be heard. Last I checked we are still a
democracy.

[email hidden]- McClellan
[email hidden]- Thompson

I've been disappointed long before this decision. But get used it,
things will only get worse. We still enjoy many freedoms that other
"civilized" nations do not (i.e. most of Europe), however we are
headed straight for their same massive buerocracy. My opinion on the
matter is that they are attempting to set a precedent for full
regualtion of the supplement industry.
As far as the cigs and alcohol are concerned, they are legal because
of their massive abuse. More users, more tax money. They call it a
'sin tax', very interesting, considering the fact it's a converse
deception:
The tax is claimed to exist because the product is bad (sinful and
harmful) and addictive. The tax will act to deter the user. But in
reality, since the products are addictive, the gov't. knows the
behavior will continue, keeping the tax money rolling in.
It gets worse- those 440,000 people dying a year- that's a [censored]
of money saved on SS and Medicare. 10,15,20 years off someone's
life-that's a lot of Social Security savings. Plus, tobacco companies
pay the gov't. to recoup money Medicare 'LOST' by paying for the
smokers' medical care.
They clean up on both ends, bleeding us dry, bleeding smokers dry,
allowing the deaths to continue. And they just laugh, collecting both
taxes and lawsuit dollars.
Remember the steroid ban in 1990, that was surely for our health.

Although I am not in favor of "sin tax," the rate of teenage smoking is
going down, and I can't help but think that part of the reason is that many
kids cannot afford a $100/week habit.

--Rich

This is true, and it's the perfect excuse for the gov't. levying
such a tax. No one wants kids smoking, therefore public support on
new taxes is overwhelming. It fits together nicely for their tax
base.
In addition, part of the reason for the decrease is the high modern
stigma of smoking. In fact many teenagers who smoke marijuana, even
habitually, look down on smokers.
But as Mike Savage would say, Uncle Sam is doing it for the
"chiiillldren".

In article <[email hidden]>,

Advocate147 said:

I will continue to post on my forum for the dreaded results that can be
experienced from stimulants.
I continue to believe that the Phen-Phen affair was not caused by the person
using the diet drug, but by a second person using the drug and affecting
another person.

Well, then you'd be wrong, wouldn't you? In retrospect, it was no
real surprise that fen-phen was causing heart valve problems, as this
is a known, though rare, side-effect of elevated blood serotonin
levels.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"xahrx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark ProbertJanuary 1, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote

in

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Can you respond on the merits?

What merits? There are plenty of studies showing the effectiveness and
safety of ephedra. The GAO has reported as much to congress before.
Anecdotal nonsense about ephedra being a contributing factor in this death
or that is just that: anecdotal nonsense. Hard data is on the side of
ephedra, nonsense knee jerk panic on the side of the ban. There any

number

Quoted message said:

of freely available substances which can 'contribute' to someone's death
were they to be misused or abused, such as water, aspirin, multivitamins,
etc. Cough drops are often abused for the DXM content because it gives a
pretty intense, almost hallucinogenic high. Problem is it can also kill
you. Shall we ban cough drops?

The "merits" of the case against ephedra are dubious at best.

So you say.

However, talk to the people whose kids and loved ones have died as a result
of its use.

It has to be regulated as a pharmaceutical. Period.,

David,

You could be right on the Phen-Phen. I don't know for sure, of course. But
I do remember calling a social setting set up for people to get together with
the same goal of losing weight, and all I could think was some of the members
would be ill.
The fact that they all got valve problems could make you right, but I have
noticed I get ill in different parts of the body, depending on who I am getting
ill from.
I have been asked, "How do you know it's me" and I say, the symptoms have
changed.
It attacks a weak part of the body, which could mean activating asthma in some,
Fibromyalgia in some, fissures, eye problems, ANYTHING that the stimulant can
attack. It is really amazing the strength of the stimulant no matter how
small a dose. It also causes depression.
I am glad to hear your thoughts on this.
Gail

"Mark ProbertJanuary 2, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote
in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

However, talk to the people whose kids and loved ones have died as a
result of its use.

Which is an argument to emotion, which carries no rational weight
whatsoever. Talk to the people whose loved ones died of alcohol overdoses.
Shall we repeal the repeal of alcohol prohibition? The emotions of those
people are irrelevant, we're talking about a law that will effect everyone
in the US and restrict their freedoms. Because some people feel bad or
aggreived is not enough reason for such a restriction. Facts matter, not
their feelings.

--
Yrs,
Richard H. Araujo
"Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are
invented nonsense."
Robert Heinlein

Rich Shewmaker said:

Although I am not in favor of "sin tax," the rate of teenage smoking is
going down, and I can't help but think that part of the reason is that many
kids cannot afford a $100/week habit.

--Rich

florida actually spent their Tobacco settlement. They spent it getting
kids of of tobacco. They upped the price fo cigs, and then did a
prcampaign to stop people especially kids from smoking. Thesmoking
rate for kids dropped 60%.

If you want to kill something, tax it to death. That's what some
places are doing with smoking, and that's why kids are quitting.