Energy and climbing...

Well, in terms of mechanics, you are almost certainly using more energy doing a hilly route of a certain distance than a flat one of the same distance. Getting up the hill costs you energy because you are not only overcoming the usual rolling resistance and wind resistance, you are also gaining potential energy. When you descend the mountain at speed, you get some of this potential energy back (that's why it's easy getting down the mountain) but a lot of it is wasted because the faster you go, the more energy you lose to air resistance. So, all other things being equal, your hilly 70-miler takes more energy to get over than a flat 70-miler.

In terms of fitness, this ought to be better for you too, although I'm less qualified to comment on this bit.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by martink

My question... if I rode 70 miles on the flat at the same average speed, would I do the same amount of work, get as fit, etc?... although it's hard work getting up the 35 mile mountain, it's very easy getting down (even though I really do use the pedals to do so).
If they are indeed the same, why do I do the mountain?
Martin

I rode flats and thought I was pretty fit. Moved to the hills and sucked. Hills will make you work harder and make you stronger,assuming you don't opt for the granny bailout. You think Lance trains for the MTN stages on the flats...LOL.

Your a sick puppy!

Still ahead of the FBI Boudreaux .. shhhhhhhhhhh!

I also found I sucked at hills and being as I live in sunny Colorado like Boudreaux we have mucho mountains - so there is no getting away with it. Yep, it is supposed to make us into super cyclists along with the high winds and high altitude! I have been doing some different training though that has helped and that is interval training - a few miles faster - every bit helps I guess!

Get your snow shovel out Boudreaux winter is not done with us yet i!!!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Susan Repp
Your a sick puppy!

Still ahead of the FBI Boudreaux .. shhhhhhhhhhh!



Get your snow shovel out Boudreaux winter is not done with us yet i!!!

Yeah,good excuse to retire to the old workshop, with the evlves and build a bike. Riding everyday is overtraining anyway.....eh? 😉

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by martink
My special ride is about 70 miles long and has about 8000 ft of total climbing. (lowest point about 1800 ft, highest is about 6000 ft)
My question... if I rode 70 miles on the flat at the same average speed, would I do the same amount of work, get as fit, etc?... although it's hard work getting up the 35 mile mountain, it's very easy getting down (even though I really do use the pedals to do so).
If they are indeed the same, why do I do the mountain?
Martin

I think the mechanics question has been answered, as far as fitness, the only benefit you get WHILE RIDING is in Cardio. It would depend on how hard you are pushing on the flat over the entire distance to figure out your gain. Obviously your heart is working much harder over a climb than a flat (unless you interval Sprints).

The biggest benefit of the climbing is the interval training, which produces fast twitch muscle fiber, and overall mass. The muscle is what will keep your furnace burning and your overall fitness level moving upward throughout the day.

However, Muscle needs recovery time generally 48 hours is a good benchmark. There are supplements out there that will help in recovery, but switching the rides up and eating many bananas is what I feel to be the best way of training.

Hope this helps.

Jdawg

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jdawg
...eating many bananas...

And protein! Don't forget the protein - you need it to repair any damage caused by straining muscles and also to help to gain new muscle. You can get protein supplements, but these are often extortionately expensive. Eating meat and/or fish is obviously a good way to get protein, as long as you don't have religious/ethical beliefs that would prevent you doing so, of course. Dried skimmed milk powder is a good, cheap alternative to the protein supplements; nuts and cheese are also high in protein but also in fat, so aren't ideal recovery foods.

The downside to a high-protein diet is it makes you stink. In every way, that is - it gives you BO and it makes your breath smell and, well, let's just say your house had better have at least 2 bathrooms.

Darn I will have to cut the protein .. mmmm .. maybe that is why I live alone. Is that true or are you pulling our legs? If I eat a lot of bananas what would I smell like?

Ddawg .. you mention about the time of rest being around 48 hours? So if you go out every day and turn up the juice are you actually "defeating" the object of getting better? I know rest is crutial to getting better, faster, etc, etc - getting those miles in there also is hard!?!?!?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Susan Repp
Darn I will have to cut the protein .. mmmm .. maybe that is why I live alone. Is that true or are you pulling our legs? If I eat a lot of bananas what would I smell like?

Ddawg .. you mention about the time of rest being around 48 hours? So if you go out every day and turn up the juice are you actually "defeating" the object of getting better? I know rest is crutial to getting better, faster, etc, etc - getting those miles in there also is hard!?!?!?

I think there is some hooey being tossed regarding the protein. Think of all the atkins people, and it's nothing I have been called on, and certainly no need for 2 bathrooms. Too many bananas will make you smell like a monkey. Rest is criticlal to recovery,but you can still log miles with less intensity,IMO.

LOL .. smell like a monkey!?!?!? So if you eat too much protein what do you smell like then? Oh, don't ask! Mmmmmmm I am beginning to wonder about you - no wonder you are on the FBI's wanted list ..

I'm taking notes about this particular forum - keep posting!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
I think there is some hooey being tossed regarding the protein. Think of all the atkins people, and it's nothing I have been called on, and certainly no need for 2 bathrooms.

No hooey, boudreaux - the whiffy factor is a well-known side-effect of a high-protein diet. It's a common complaint about Atkins, or any diet that involves a large intake of meat, fish etc. Obviously it gets some people more than others, and it depends on exactly how much protein you're taking. If you consume a lot of protein and haven't noticed any problem, good luck to you.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Susan Repp
Darn I will have to cut the protein .. mmmm .. maybe that is why I live alone. Is that true or are you pulling our legs? If I eat a lot of bananas what would I smell like?

Ddawg .. you mention about the time of rest being around 48 hours? So if you go out every day and turn up the juice are you actually "defeating" the object of getting better? I know rest is crutial to getting better, faster, etc, etc - getting those miles in there also is hard!?!?!?

Yes, protein is very important to recovery. However, high protein diets by definition will inhibit an athlete. Carbs make you go, plain and simple. Without carbs, your body will find sugars in other places. Muscle mass is the first place it will go for energy. For non active people, High protein diets work quite well so don’t think I am against them, I just feel they are not for athletes.

If you look at any pro athlete, there carb % is extremely high. Now it is not a good idea for the average rider to load on 60% carbs, as they are not on their bikes 8 hours a day. The important thing is to eat for what you are GOING to do and not for what you have done. Most people will gorge after a long ride. Try eating your protein right after a ride, and maybe a little fruit so you don’t crash.

Potassium is known to help repair the muscle shredding you have just done on your long climb, but protein will encourage the lien muscle mass.

As far as riding everyday. If you work the same muscle over and over again, you will eventually break down the muscle and defeat the purpose training. That is why after a stage race or a long endurance race, it is not uncommon to loose a large % of muscle mass. However, if you train and switch the different fibers being used, i.e. climbing, sprinting, or base miles, you will decrease the chance of break down.

Hope this helps,

Jdawg

Finally, someone who says carb are good - I get tired of folks telling me they get "fat" on carbs and I keep trying to tell them if you work out you need them or you won't have energy and if you wanna move some lard - get going. I think a lot of women are afraid to move themselves and think by walking -10 mph and a quick stroll around the block (none of those women on this forum right girls!!!) is going to make it - ha, ha not! It isn't "just" the carbs but how much they "aren't" putting out! Cannot run/bike on a mere lettuce leaf now can we! I know body buildings eat humungus amounts of protein which I feel is just not good enough - are we meant to eat the side of a cow at one sitting?!?!?

Pottasium .. mmmmm .. it's that banana thing again right? Yep, I am definately gonna smell like a monkey!

I usually sink a mixture of tofu, protien, soy milk and berries when I finish a workout cos I am famished (oh, and a banana) and it stops me wanting to scoff anything and everything in sight.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Susan Repp
Finally, someone who says carb are good - I get tired of folks telling me they get "fat" on carbs .......

Yeah,cuz they eat too much of the [censored] and OD on the wrong kind too,along with no exersize. Kind of a no brainer,but too many don't get it. I cut out the bad carbs(mostly 😉 ) and still eat plenty of the good kind,along with enough protein to build muscle,as well as enough enough healthy fat too. It's all about balance.

Well stated Boudreaux! Hows this snow then .. how many inches do you have?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Susan Repp
Well stated Boudreaux! Hows this snow then .. how many inches do you have?

4-5" of heavy wet stuff and still coming down. No bike riding today 🙁. Guess I'll have to settle for a session in the weight room,big protien shake and a banana.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
4-5" of heavy wet stuff and still coming down. No bike riding today 🙁. Guess I'll have to settle for a session in the weight room,big protien shake and a banana.

Why would you do that?? Do you WANT to smell like a monkey? 😄

Jdawg

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jdawg
Why would you do that?? Do you WANT to smell like a monkey? 😄

Jdawg

It would probably be a step up from some of the bubbas that don't seem to know about showers, soap and toothpaste. 😉

LOL .. You guys STOPPIT you are killing me .. I will never look at a banana quite the same and I will keep sniffing just to check I don't smell like a monkey or is that a banana, monkey, banana -

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Susan Repp
LOL .. You guys STOPPIT you are killing me .. I will never look at a banana quite the same and I will keep sniffing just to check I don't smell like a monkey or is that a banana, monkey, banana -

Or the smell could be the banana in your pocket you forgot about.....:eek:

Jdawg