encouraging cycling to work

Ian Smith said:

Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
important than just about everything else on the list.

Decent bike parking in a sensible place - yes.
Covered - well, that's kind-of extra luxury.

At the moment,

Quoted message said:

I change in a cubicle in the gents toilet, and my bike gear festers
for the day in a plastic bag, but I'd rather that and know the bike is
securely locked under cover than have luxurious showers and worry
about the bike. Is this unusual?

The only workplace I've ever had with shower is when working from home.

Quoted message said:

(The building also has an underground car-park with some fully
enclosed spaces near a stair core

In that case, what possible reason could there be for not
providing equivalent facilities for bikes?

Quoted message said:

the dry, out of sight of passers-by, but nicely on CCTV over the

CCTV? well, if it's there anyway. But installing it just for
the bikes might be OTT, unless there's a definite problem.

--
not me guv

I agree with you but have no references.

As someone who has commuted much by bicycle, the knowledge my bike was
safe would encourage me.
I would prefer to return to a dry saddle, if possible.

You can always change in the bogs...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Ian Smith ([email hidden]) wrote:
: The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
: more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
: area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
: mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
: away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.

: What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
: tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
: drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?

[...]

: Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
: important than just about everything else on the list.

[...]

I very much agree that secure bike parking is v important, and probably
item # 1 on my list.

How important relative to that showers and changing rooms are probably
depends on the distance most people would cycle, and what kind of
clothes they have to wear at work. I have never cycled so far/fast that
I had to shower at work, and just wear regular clothes.

Maybe part of the reason why non-cyclists underestimate the importance
of cycle parking is because they fail to consider the hassle of finding
a new bike and getting it set up "just right", bike-less time it takes
to shop around, order bike, etc.

Interestingly, you not only want to convince the non-cycling board
members to install the most important things, but you may also need to
convince the non-cycling co-workers that cycling to work for 5 miles is
indeed possible without a shower, and that the secure parking that
was installed instead really /is/ more important.

Come to think of it, you might be better of strategically by first
going with the "outsiders'" perspective of shower etc, then when you
have enough co-workers who have taken up cycling, use them as a
pressure group to get secure parking installed. If there are funds left
by that time 🙂

m.

Ian Smith said:

Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
important than just about everything else on the list. At the moment,
I change in a cubicle in the gents toilet, and my bike gear festers
for the day in a plastic bag, but I'd rather that and know the bike is
securely locked under cover than have luxurious showers and worry
about the bike. Is this unusual? Can anyone suggest references that
support my argument? I can present my argument to the board (maybe I
should admit I'm on the board, and own a very small proportion of the
company), but I could do with a bit more than just "I think xyz",
since others (who don't cycle) have seized on showers and
tax breaks as the be-all and end-all. And tehre's a very small
possibility that I'm wrong - maybe everyone else thinsk showers are
more important than bike parking - so I'd like to hear all views.

You are right. When we moved offices to a larger "campus" the campus
had a large number of useless bike racks that the architect thought
would look nice in the photos. Despite the "campus" having been open for
3 years the number of cyclists was pitifully small. Less than 10 out of
about 500 on site.

Since we moved and had 10 cycle lockers installed (only 10 as that was
all we had at the old location) we have over doubled the number of
cyclists and the new restriction is the lack of lockers. Something I
hope we can resolve.

The useless cycle racks remain mostly empty.

Secure parking is the number 1 issue from my point of view. I don't
want to be stuck here if someone has decided to remove some bits from my
bike or indeed the whole bike. With lockers you then also make life much
more convenient I don't have to remove lights, pump, toolkit or anything
from the bike every day. Just wheel it into the locker.

Showers come a close 2nd if you expect people to cycle a good distance
to work. We have some people cycling over 15 miles each way (not
including me) which I find amazing.

--chris

Marianne Promberger said:

How important relative to that showers and changing rooms are probably
depends on the distance most people would cycle, and what kind of
clothes they have to wear at work. I have never cycled so far/fast that
I had to shower at work, and just wear regular clothes.

On the one hand, from a personal level I agree completely, but OTOH,
trying to project myself onto Mr. Joseph Public's typically average
thoughts, what is /actually/ useful and the general /perception/ of what
is useful are two different things.

ISTM that showers and changing facilities are mentioned so often these
days that it is pretty much expected that they're needed. And you won't
find out they're not if you just assume they are and drive while there
aren't any... :-(

Quoted message said:

Maybe part of the reason why non-cyclists underestimate the importance
of cycle parking is because they fail to consider the hassle of finding
a new bike and getting it set up "just right", bike-less time it takes
to shop around, order bike, etc.

Dunno about that: I can order a bike just right for me in a few minutes
(okay. so it'll take 6 weeks to arrive at Kinetics, but there's no
problem specifying something I know works and ordering it). I think
parking is underestimated because it's not on the general radar as a
problem to a lot of people since to park a car you get out and lock the
door.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Ian Smith said:

The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.

What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?

I work with a company that provides all the hard facilities - showers,
bike sheds, pool bikes and so on, but the thing taht stops many from
riding to work is the worry about the traffic and especially the large
multi-laned roundabout they need to negotiate outside the offices.

To overcome this special cycle- training sessions are being arranged for
the roundabout, while general cycle-training is available to all staff on
application.

John B

"Ian Smith" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

What is needed? What encourages cycle use?

Cycling encourages cycle use, seeing other folks doing it without growing 2
heads.
Sunny weather helps too, appalling traffic, unreliable public transport...

Quoted message said:

There is also talk of showers / change room /
drying room.

Showers are a definate plus if you're going more than about 5 miles or so
IMO. Also good for folks who like to go jogging at lunch time.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
important than just about everything else on the list.

Yes, but it doesn't have to be a formally designated area. If you've got an
underground car park you may well be able to find a railing or downpipe to
lock on to. In some workplaces you can find a space under the fire-escape
or a broom-cupboard. Sometimes when I've forgotten my keys I've just
carried my bike to my desk and leaned it against the wall.

On 25 May 2006 12:57:46 GMT someone who may be Ian Smith
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.

What sort of trains operate on these lines, how frequently and how
many bikes can each carry? What is bike use like at the moment on
these trains and what are the bike carriage policies? Are train
services at suitable times?

What bike parking is there at them and is it the sort of place one
might want to leave a bike overnight? Could this be improved?

What are the roads like between these stations and the front door?
Is there anything particularly obnoxious to cyclists on the way?

Quoted message said:

There is also talk of showers / change room / drying room.

Probably more use to joggers and other keep fit fanatics. Would
people get hot and sweaty over the journey?

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, what tehre is not talk of at the moment is bike
storage.

Then they are not in the least interested in encouraging cycle use,
no matter how much hot air is emitted claiming otherwise. People
don't want to worry if their bike will still be there, undamaged, at
going home time.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
important than just about everything else on the list.

Covered may be a luxury, but is worth having if possible.

Also, what provision is there to be for visitors arriving by bike?

Sustrans have done much on this and they have a web site. Are there
any local groups that might be of use?

Is the building in the middle of nowhere, selected because the
Managing Director likes something about it, or has it been selected
on a range of objective criteria?

One of the other things about such activities is providing a "get
you home" service for staff, usually in the form of a taxi paid for
by the company. This covers all sorts of things, having to work late
and missing one's car share, bus or train, little Jemima suddenly
taken ill at school and parent having to dash off. This can take
care of a lot of the "I need my car just in case..." excuses and
tends not to be abused.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Chris Gerhard said:

The useless cycle racks remain mostly empty.

On that note, don't let them 'improve' the cycling stands beyond the
Sheffield stand. We had a row of things where you put your bike
between two low posts and used an issued key to swing a lockable bar
through the diamond frame and lock between the two posts. Needless to
say, this completely fails for non-standard frames, large frames, etc,
not to mention the problem with keys being lost/cloned/jamming (at least
if you lose the key to a conventional lock, appropriate brute force will
eventually remove it. With these, the low posts were concrete.)

R.

David Hansen said:

On 25 May 2006 12:57:46 GMT someone who may be Ian Smith
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.

What sort of trains operate on these lines, how frequently and how
many bikes can each carry? What is bike use like at the moment on
these trains and what are the bike carriage policies? Are train
services at suitable times?

No. Number and frequency of trains is OK. One of the lines serves
the town from which most people travel, and the other serves the
second-most town. Sadly, both lines are London commuter lines, and
don't carry bikes unless folders. We've already identified that if
people want to combine bike and train, they'll need to leave bikes at
the station, or have a folder.

Quoted message said:

What are the roads like between these stations and the front door?
Is there anything particularly obnoxious to cyclists on the way?

No - from that point of view train & bike works quite well.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is also talk of showers / change room / drying room.

Probably more use to joggers and other keep fit fanatics. Would
people get hot and sweaty over the journey?

I wouldn't - 1.5 miles flat semi-urban. Cyclists are the fastest
vehicle on the roads in the vicinity at rush-hour.

Quoted message said:

Sustrans have done much on this and they have a web site. Are there
any local groups that might be of use?

Stupidly, I didn't think of Sustrans - thanks.

Quoted message said:

Is the building in the middle of nowhere, selected because the
Managing Director likes something about it, or has it been selected
on a range of objective criteria?

Somewhat objective (in my opinion). The managing director does like
it, but there are good reasons for it. It's not in the middle of
nowhere, it's in a town that didn't approve of these new-fangled
'railways' and insisted on the line and station being outside the town
where it won't spoil the environment.

Quoted message said:

One of the other things about such activities is providing a "get
you home" service for staff, usually in the form of a taxi paid for
by the company. This covers all sorts of things, having to work late
and missing one's car share, bus or train, little Jemima suddenly
taken ill at school and parent having to dash off. This can take
care of a lot of the "I need my car just in case..." excuses and
tends not to be abused.

I wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?

I work for Europe's largest company and cycle to work 12 miles each way all
year round. I have had nothing but discouragements all the way. It took 6
years to get the ban on bike lights overturned when I had to take management
to an independent body for discrimination. It took 5 years to get a 90 quid
tumble drier when the offices were undergoing a refit costing 2 million.

I get changed in the disabled toilets and the only bike storage are
wheelbenders and I won't leave a 2000 quid bike secured by one wheel. I
therefore chain my bike to the car park fence where it attracts threatening
notes from security who threaten me with clamping for obstructing a
"walkway". I return I have threatened them with a claim for bullying and
harassment. They now graciously let me use a bit of the perimeter fence that
has no path next to it. Needless to say they are *totally* commited to
health, safety and the environment.

Simon Mason said:

It took 6
years to get the ban on bike lights overturned

They banned bike lights? Generally? Or leaving them on the bike? Or
bringing them indoors? Or what?

R, curious.

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

It took 6 years to get the ban on bike lights overturned

They banned bike lights? Generally? Or leaving them on the bike? Or
bringing them indoors? Or what?

Supposed to be a source of ignition due to batteries (chemicals works). Of
course, mobile phones, car keys, car keyring torches, laptops, palmpilots,
PDAs etc are allowed in.

Ian Smith said:

Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
important than just about everything else on the list.

Agreed. This has always been the biggest factor in influencing whether
or not I cycle to work - and as a freelancer who works in a wide
variety of places, this is an issue I have to consider often.

At my last job, the availability of secure, private, off-street parking
made the difference between cycling or not - the office was on a busy
high street of the kind where I wouldn't be happy leaving my bike out
of sight for more than five minutes.

The fact that shower & changing facilities were also available was just
a bonus.

Quoted message said:

since others (who don't cycle) have seized on showers and
tax breaks as the be-all and end-all.

You could just ask them why they (who don't cycle) think they have a
better idea than you (who does cycle) about what cyclists want. But
maybe that wouldn't be the most diplomatic approach.

Quoted message said:

(The building also has an underground car-park with some fully
enclosed spaces near a stair core where racks could be positioned in
the dry, out of sight of passers-by, but nicely on CCTV over the
network to my desktop).

Is a rack really necessary? If you have access to the car park, can't
you find a railing to chain your bike to?

In fact, come to think of it, is a lock necessary? When cycling to the
job mentioned above, I sometimes didn't bother to lock my bike up - the
car park was /that/ secure!

You could also ask the board why they think secure parking is necessary
for cars but not for bikes - bikes are surely much more prone to theft
and vandalism than cars.

d.

"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

It took 6 years to get the ban on bike lights overturned

They banned bike lights? Generally? Or leaving them on the bike? Or
bringing them indoors? Or what?

Supposed to be a source of ignition due to batteries (chemicals works). Of
course, mobile phones, car keys, car keyring torches, laptops, palmpilots,
PDAs etc are allowed in.

ICI Wilton never had a problem with bikes - indeed I believe there were some
works ones. But you already know the ban was unreasonable :-(

cheers,
clive

On 25 May 2006 14:11:09 GMT someone who may be Ian Smith
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The managing director does like
it, but there are good reasons for it.

That's good. Many have been chosen because this person wanted
somewhere he (it usually is a he in these cases) could drive to from
his house easily, without encountering traffic jams.

Others have been chosen because the council was encouraging people
to move there. The same council would then moan that car use was
going up, even though they were the ones who encouraged this.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4475c2f2$0$559

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Supposed to be a source of ignition due to batteries (chemicals works).
Of course, mobile phones, car keys, car keyring torches, laptops,
palmpilots, PDAs etc are allowed in.

ICI Wilton never had a problem with bikes - indeed I believe there were
some works ones. But you already know the ban was unreasonable :-(

We have work bikes - but they cannot get intrinsically safe lights for them
so they are unlit. Where they get intrinsically safe cars and lorries from I
don't know. There must be a special factory that makes them.

"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4475c2f2$0$559

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Supposed to be a source of ignition due to batteries (chemicals works).
Of course, mobile phones, car keys, car keyring torches, laptops,
palmpilots, PDAs etc are allowed in.

ICI Wilton never had a problem with bikes - indeed I believe there were
some works ones. But you already know the ban was unreasonable :-(

We have work bikes - but they cannot get intrinsically safe lights for
them so they are unlit. Where they get intrinsically safe cars and lorries
from I don't know. There must be a special factory that makes them.

Not sure whether to giggle or bang my head in frustration :-)

cheers,
clive

davek said:

Ian Smith said:

(The building also has an underground car-park with some fully
enclosed spaces near a stair core where racks could be positioned in
the dry, out of sight of passers-by, but nicely on CCTV over the
network to my desktop).

Is a rack really necessary? If you have access to the car park, can't
you find a railing to chain your bike to?

By 'rack' I really mean something secure to which to attach bikes -
the car park is a cavernous void divided into 3-car-space bays by
solid concrete structural walls. There is nothing in it to which to
attach anything, with the possible exception of threading a thin cable
through the grill on the front of the air-conditioning units.

The ramp down to the car-park has a railing on one edge (other edge is
blank wall), but I wouldn't fancy suspending my bike on the outer
face, and it's tight turning in - a bike left chained to the inner
face of the railing would be liable to being seriously damaged by cars
trying to turn in. Pedestrian access/egress is via a separate
staircase, which is surrounded by a wall.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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