Emily thinks, Emily writes, you read...

Dearest Emily:

Quoted message said:

Firstly, I'd arranged my route to cover many of the places
my dad visited during his Grand European Tour, '44-'45. He
so enjoyed the programme of activities laid on by his
hosts, the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht, that he
steadfastly refused to visit Europe, or even converse with
Europeans, ever again in his lifetime, a feat he
comfortably achieved.

Here Stateside, this gets me to thinking about how much
"proper" Euro-opinion hates and scorns the U.S. If we'd just
stayed out of the whole WWII business, we'd probably be on
good terms with the current Central Federated (Jewish free!)
Greater Gemany (with a unified currency, of course...)

Quoted message said:

Standing on, or near, many of dads old airbases, looking
at modern Europe all around, made me realise just how much
we owe his generation (yeah, even you Yankees) in defining
the European environment of today. Frankly, it's a bloody
terrific place, packed full of well-educated, friendly and
successful people. Sure, it has some problems, but the
overall picture is one of real, measurable, and
sustainable progress, both in national terms and at an
individual level. I feel kinda bad that the achievements
of my generation pale into insignificant by comparison.

To play the devil here, I think if you track
social/economic progress from '70 (when the baby boomers as
we call them here started taking over) to now, we'd have to
get *some* kudos. Especially in what the hated Rumsfeld
calls "new" europe.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, and on a more personal level, there is a
tangible sense of the new Europe belonging to the 18-25
age group. Goddamn it, I felt *old*! The young
whippersnappers are *everywhere*, doing stuff, having fun,
spending money; the whole bloody structure of the towns
and cities seem geared to their needs.

Reminds me of the scene every Friday when wife and I go out
to dinner on the Sunset Strip here in L.A. You should see
it...not only whippersnappers, but the muscles in my neck
snapping as some amazing scenery goes by.

Quoted message said:

Once I'd got over my sulk, this seems to be an excellent
idea. Most of these kids are committed to an inclusive,
multi-national, multi-cultural, Europe and to the
development of a federal European state. These are Big
Steps, that will undoubtedly sweep away much of the
useless [censored] my generation so lovingly put in place.

Well, I'll chime in from the colonial territories with a
contrary view: Homogenization bad. Individuation good. Lots
of small countries competing: good. Central Levithian
controlled by an elite bureaucratic class: bad. Let a
thousand flowers bloom. The part of this that goes on in the
US is the creeping reach of our central government, which
wants to gradually eliminate differences among the states.

Quoted message said:

I wish them well, and will actively support both my kids
in doing at least a couple of years at a European
university before they graduate.

Hey, John Kerry studied in Switzerland, and he sounds very
much like a Euro-Elite to me...

Quoted message said:

Which brings me neatly to my return ferry journey.
Standing at the ships rail as we entered the Forth
estuary, I wondered what the hell my generation of 40-60
year olds had actually achieved at a national or
international level. We lack the self-sacrifice and dogged
persistence of our fathers, and the vision and enterprise
of our children. We lived in easy times and, by and large,
all we did was take, take, take.

Very true. Easy times fool us into thinking that we can
forget History. Rome will live on forever! The next
generation is coming of age as the next World War coalesces
on the horizon. To quote the century's greatest poet (you
probably know this by heart):

Nothing is sacred The ceremony sinks Innocence is drowned
In anarchy The best lack conviction Given some time to
think And the worst are full of passion Without mercy

Quoted message said:

Even if we can convince ourselves that - at some level -
our 'achievements' are worthy, I sincerely doubt that
history will judge us so kindly.

Some interesting times are upon us; I hope we rise to them,
and earn our redemption.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps it's just as well we're happy in the dream world
of our self-congratulatory lives and sporting pretensions.
Let's hope we never wake up.

A very thought provoking missive. Any relation to the
Dickinsons?

--Dan

Caroline's adorable cousin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

OK, far too much running nonsense on here. Time for a
salutary tale...

My recent jaunt to the sunny Baltic states began with a
sea voyage on the Rosyth- Zeebrugge ferry, followed by a
lengthy drive through what seemed like half of Europe. Two
things sprang to mind during my journey.

Firstly, I'd arranged my route to cover many of the places
my dad visited during his Grand European Tour, '44-'45. He
so enjoyed the programme of activities laid on by his
hosts, the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht, that he
steadfastly refused to visit Europe, or even converse with
Europeans, ever again in his lifetime, a feat he
comfortably achieved. Standing on, or near, many of dads
old airbases, looking at modern Europe all around, made me
realise just how much we owe his generation (yeah, even
you Yankees) in defining the European environment of
today. Frankly, it's a bloody terrific place, packed full
of well-educated, friendly and successful people. Sure, it
has some problems, but the overall picture is one of real,
measurable, and sustainable progress, both in national
terms and at an individual level. I feel kinda bad that
the achievements of my generation pale into insignificant
by comparison.

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn that generation. It's
achievements are perhaps less conspicuous but are
nevertheless notable. In the US, this was the generation
that made some semblance of equality between the races a
reality, abandoned the cold war (which was, incidentally,
put in place by that "greatest generation"😉, eradicated
smallpox, mapped the human genome, vastly enlarged
humankind's understanding of the world and disseminated it
nearly everywhere via the internet, which it also created,
and brought hitherto unprecedented computing power to the
desktops of virtually anyone who wanted it. This does not
pehaps match the great achievement and sacrifice made by the
previous generation in prevailing over fascism and naziism,
but they are achievements that will have far reaching
consequences.

Having said that, the excesses of this generation are a
black mark upon it.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, and on a more personal level, there is a
tangible sense of the new Europe belonging to the 18-25
age group. Goddamn it, I felt *old*! The young
whippersnappers are *everywhere*, doing stuff, having fun,
spending money; the whole bloody structure of the towns
and cities seem geared to their needs. Once I'd got over
my sulk, this seems to be an excellent idea. Most of these
kids are committed to an inclusive, multi-national, multi-
cultural, Europe and to the development of a federal
European state. These are Big Steps, that will undoubtedly
sweep away much of the useless [censored] my generation so
lovingly put in place. I wish them well, and will actively
support both my kids in doing at least a couple of years
at a European university before they graduate.

Weren't you ever 22 years old? I seem to remember my own...
uh... fair city (Washington DC) having a very lively young
adult scene. I enjoyed it immensely. We, of course, were
mainly concerned with 1) Race issues 2) War in VietNam at
the time, so perhaps we weren't as optimistic as the present
generation may be, but we are all the products of our age.
That was ours, and this is theirs.

Quoted message said:

Which brings me neatly to my return ferry journey.
Standing at the ships rail as we entered the Forth
estuary, I wondered what the hell my generation of 40-60
year olds had actually achieved at a national or
international level. We lack the self-sacrifice and
dogged persistence of our fathers, and the vision and
enterprise of our children. We lived in easy times and,
by and large, all we did was take, take, take. Even if we
can convince ourselves that - at some level - our
'achievements' are worthy, I sincerely doubt that history
will judge us so kindly.

Well, you can choose to look at the good things or the bad
things or all things. There is certainly enough good and bad
to justify whatever position you choose to hold. I think
history will judge us as it judges most generations --
namely, that it will have very little to say about us as a
generation but will instead try to tease out the social
dynamics that produced this generation, and the events
during our time that set the stage for the next.

I think by far the greatest achievement of this generation
has been the desktop computer and the internet. The internet
is by far the greatest democratizing influence the world has
ever seen, and access to it is made possible by computer
innovations that have reduced the cost of a computing unit
from levels prohibitive to all but the largest corporations
and government agencies to levels within the reach of high
school students with babysitting and lawn mowing money, all
in a single generation, and for machines of immsely greater
power. It is hard for us to imagine the eventual outcome of
this revolution, but I suspect it is going to be something
akin to the revolution spawned by the invention of the
printing press (which, incidentally, drove a stake through
the heart of the dark ages).

Quoted message said:

Perhaps it's just as well we're happy in the dream world
of our self-congratulatory lives and sporting pretensions.
Let's hope we never wake up.

Well, it is indeed sad to see so many people sleep-walking
through life, or, worse yet, people whose lives consist of
cherry-picking without feeling the need to plant a few trees
of their own, and I will not try to defend them.
Nevertheless, I know a lot of very dedicated and hard-
working people who do not fit the picture you paint at all.
Hopefully, there's a little room in one corner of your
painting for those people.

Quoted message said:

Emily. Feeling angry that her generation was so self-
centred all its life.

Ok, here's one feat accomplished by the generation of adults
in the 70's and 80's (not the WWII generation, not the
youngsters of today). That generation, mainly of Americans,
have eradicated and eased disease in the Western World and
around the globe in scope and bredth and numbers only
previously dreamed of. I'll humbly recognize that we haven't
conquered chronic disease, because it ain't conquerable, and
we have all sorts of problems of inequity and crisis-
orientation rather than prevention orientation in many
cases. But that generation has done amazing things which
Hippocrates, Osler, and others never imagined possible.

How's that for a little generational esteem boost?
[rain of criticism to follow, for sure...]

-- josh

Caroline's adorable cousin said:

OK, far too much running nonsense on here. Time for a
salutary tale...

My recent jaunt to the sunny Baltic states began with a
sea voyage on the Rosyth- Zeebrugge ferry, followed by a
lengthy drive through what seemed like half of Europe. Two
things sprang to mind during my journey.

Firstly, I'd arranged my route to cover many of the places
my dad visited during his Grand European Tour, '44-'45. He
so enjoyed the programme of activities laid on by his
hosts, the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht, that he
steadfastly refused to visit Europe, or even converse with
Europeans, ever again in his lifetime, a feat he
comfortably achieved. Standing on, or near, many of dads
old airbases, looking at modern Europe all around, made me
realise just how much we owe his generation (yeah, even
you Yankees) in defining the European environment of
today. Frankly, it's a bloody terrific place, packed full
of well-educated, friendly and successful people. Sure, it
has some problems, but the overall picture is one of real,
measurable, and sustainable progress, both in national
terms and at an individual level. I feel kinda bad that
the achievements of my generation pale into insignificant
by comparison.

Secondly, and on a more personal level, there is a
tangible sense of the new Europe belonging to the 18-25
age group. Goddamn it, I felt *old*! The young
whippersnappers are *everywhere*, doing stuff, having fun,
spending money; the whole bloody structure of the towns
and cities seem geared to their needs. Once I'd got over
my sulk, this seems to be an excellent idea. Most of these
kids are committed to an inclusive, multi-national, multi-
cultural, Europe and to the development of a federal
European state. These are Big Steps, that will undoubtedly
sweep away much of the useless [censored] my generation so
lovingly put in place. I wish them well, and will actively
support both my kids in doing at least a couple of years
at a European university before they graduate.

Which brings me neatly to my return ferry journey.
Standing at the ships rail as we entered the Forth
estuary, I wondered what the hell my generation of 40-60
year olds had actually achieved at a national or
international level. We lack the self-sacrifice and
dogged persistence of our fathers, and the vision and
enterprise of our children. We lived in easy times and,
by and large, all we did was take, take, take. Even if we
can convince ourselves that - at some level - our
'achievements' are worthy, I sincerely doubt that history
will judge us so kindly.

Perhaps it's just as well we're happy in the dream world
of our self-congratulatory lives and sporting pretensions.
Let's hope we never wake up.

Emily. Feeling angry that her generation was so self-
centred all its life.

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]-
t>... [...]

Quoted message said:

To quote the century's greatest poet (you probably know
this by heart):

Nothing is sacred The ceremony sinks Innocence is drowned
In anarchy The best lack conviction Given some time to
think And the worst are full of passion Without mercy

Yeats the greatest poet? I don't think so.

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow Out of
this stony rubbish? Son of man, You cannot say, or guess,
for you know only A heap of broken images, where the sun
beats, And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no
relief, And the dry stone no sound of water. Only There
is shadow under this red rock, (Come in under the shadow
of this red rock), And I will show you something
different from either Your shadow at morning striding
behind you Or you shadow at evening rising to meet you; I
will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
bookgroup.org.ukbookgroup.org.ukOpen ↗

Dan Stumpus said:

Dearest Emily:

Dashing Danny,

Quoted message said:

Here Stateside, this gets me to thinking about how much
"proper" Euro-opinion hates and scorns the U.S. If we'd
just stayed out of the whole WWII business, we'd probably
be on good terms with the current Central Federated (Jewish
free!) Greater Gemany (with a unified currency, of
course...)

Yabbut, we all know that Yankees are much nicer in person
than the performance of their government and military would
suggest. OK, I've met a few painful Yanks, but the vast
majority are guys/girls with whom I'd happily share a
foxhole. And, one day soon, I may have to...

Quoted message said:

To play the devil here, I think if you track
social/economic progress from '70 (when the baby boomers as
we call them here started taking over) to now, we'd have to
get *some* kudos. Especially in what the hated Rumsfeld
calls "new" europe.

Thing is, it kinda depends on the indicators you select to
track 'progress', doesn't it? Me? I think if the 'average'
kid can grow up healthy, well fed and well educated, and
look forward to a reasonable career whilst still being on
good terms with their neighbours, you're doing OK. On that
basis, I'm not sure the government of my generation has done
a fine job.

Quoted message said:

Reminds me of the scene every Friday when wife and I go out
to dinner on the Sunset Strip here in L.A. You should see
it...not only whippersnappers, but the muscles in my neck
snapping as some amazing scenery goes by.

I know. We were born 30 years too early. Oh, the babes,
the babes...

Quoted message said:

Well, I'll chime in from the colonial territories with a
contrary view: Homogenization bad. Individuation good.
Lots of small countries competing: good. Central
Levithian controlled by an elite bureaucratic class: bad.
Let a thousand flowers bloom. The part of this that goes
on in the US is the creeping reach of our central
government, which wants to gradually eliminate
differences among the states.

The fly in that particular ointment is the stark evidence of
European history. Every time we assert our individuality, we
collectively remember that we used to own part of our
neighbours land. (Hell, we used to own half of France in the
1300's. I think we should have it back...) Some rugged
individualist then whips up a nationalistic fervour and
before you know it we're hacking at each others throats. In
short, I'll take a muddied national personality over neat
rows of war graves lying underneath the Union Jack any day.

Quoted message said:

Hey, John Kerry studied in Switzerland, and he sounds very
much like a Euro-Elite to me...

Hey, from this side of the pond, young Kerry looks like the
saving of America...

Quoted message said:

Nothing is sacred The ceremony sinks Innocence is drowned
In anarchy The best lack conviction Given some time to
think And the worst are full of passion Without mercy

Yeah, I like Joni, but I like your use of that quote much
better. That was really neat. I'm impressed.

Quoted message said:

Some interesting times are upon us; I hope we rise to them,
and earn our redemption.

When Anubis weighs my heart against the feather of Ma'ar, I
sincerely hope I've had the opportunity to perform One Great
Act Of Self-Sacrifice to atone for an otherwise nondescript
life. However, I rather suspect that it'll merely become a
tasty snack for Ammut.

I'm not sure I entirely buy the redemption thing. How can
one act undo a life of mediocrity? To me it sounds more like
a mix of desperation and guilt.

Quoted message said:

A very thought provoking missive. Any relation to the
Dickinsons?

Yes. I am she. How could you possibly have thought
otherwise?

On 14 May 2004 11:38:24 -0700, [email hidden] (Kerry Wilson)

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn that generation. It's
achievements are perhaps less conspicuous but are
nevertheless notable.

I didn't suggest that we'd done nothing. We made a
considerable effort to ensure that life was comfortable for
ourselves.

Quoted message said:

In the US, this was the generation that made some
semblance of equality between the races a reality,
abandoned the cold war (which was, incidentally, put in
place by that "greatest generation"😉, eradicated smallpox,

OK, so we dealt with a few irritations...

Quoted message said:

mapped the human genome,

...a few scientists and computer boffins earned their
grant money...

Quoted message said:

vastly enlarged humankind's understanding of the world and
disseminated it nearly everywhere via the internet,

...created Usenet...

Quoted message said:

which it also created, and brought hitherto unprecedented
computing power to the desktops of virtually anyone who
wanted it.

...and the PS2...

Quoted message said:

This does not pehaps match the great achievement and
sacrifice made by the previous generation in prevailing
over fascism and naziism,

True. It doesn't even come close, does it?

Quoted message said:

but they are achievements that will have far reaching
consequences.

...for the bank balances of western entrepreneurs

Quoted message said:

Having said that, the excesses of this generation are a
black mark upon it.

Hell, we didn't even do excess well. The drug culture was
seedy and introspective. Couldn't we have arranged colourful
Roman-style orgies instead?

Quoted message said:

Weren't you ever 22 years old?

Yes, but I was playing soldiers in Rhodesia at the time
therefore I was more focussed on staying alive than taking a
Giant Step On Behalf Of Humanity. What was your excuse?

Quoted message said:

I seem to remember my own... uh... fair city (Washington
DC) having a very lively young adult scene. I enjoyed it
immensely. We, of course, were mainly concerned with 1)
Race issues 2) War in VietNam at the time, so perhaps we
weren't as optimistic as the present generation may be,
but we are all the products of our age. That was ours, and
this is theirs.

My point exactly. We became bogged down in 'solving'
(which we never
did) some of the problems created by our parents generation,
rather than focussing on creating something new. If I
read today's youth correctly they don't give a hoot
about us, but they do have a very clear idea of the
world they want. I think they have a better than even
chance of getting it.

Quoted message said:

Well, you can choose to look at the good things or the bad
things or all things. There is certainly enough good and
bad to justify whatever position you choose to hold.

That's a neat sidestep. The *balance*, dear Kerry, is clear.
We blew the opportunity - created by near 30 years of a
mainly peaceful world - to create something spectacular. We
did, however, collect a healthy bank balance, a sound
pension plan, and an attractive collection of automobiles in
our drive.

Quoted message said:

I think by far the greatest achievement of this
generation has been the desktop computer and the
internet. The internet is by far the greatest
democratizing influence the world has ever seen, and
access to it is made possible by computer innovations
that have reduced the cost of a computing unit from
levels prohibitive to all but the largest corporations
and government agencies to levels within the reach of
high school students with babysitting and lawn mowing
money, all in a single generation, and for machines of
immsely greater power. It is hard for us to imagine the
eventual outcome of this revolution, but I suspect it is
going to be something akin to the revolution spawned by
the invention of the printing press (which, incidentally,
drove a stake through the heart of the dark ages).

Huh? Kerry, it's a glorified TOY. A fun toy and an
informative toy, but a toy nevertheless. As a tool for
communication, it has its place. But its usefulness rather
depends on the users having something relevant to
communicate...

Quoted message said:

Well, it is indeed sad to see so many people sleep-walking
through life, or, worse yet, people whose lives consist of
cherry-picking without feeling the need to plant a few
trees of their own, and I will not try to defend them.
Nevertheless, I know a lot of very dedicated and hard-
working people who do not fit the picture you paint at all.
Hopefully, there's a little room in one corner of your
painting for those people.

The trouble with corners is that they're usually dark,
uninteresting and unimportant in the overall scheme of
the picture.

Emily. Sorry. Not convinced. Not at all.

"Kerry Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn that generation. It's
achievements are perhaps less conspicuous but are
nevertheless notable. In the US, this was the
generation that made some semblance of equality between
the races a reality

Truly a much needed and moral thing to do...

, abandoned the cold war (which was, incidentally,

Quoted message said:

put in place by that "greatest generation"😉,

Some of us would say the cold war was won. We kept the
pressure on those pesky Russkies with our military spending,
not the only reason they collapsed, but a major factor. It's
Vietnam we abandoned, as I recall (being a protester back in
my UCLA days).

Quoted message said:

eradicated smallpox, mapped the human genome, vastly
enlarged humankind's understanding of the world and
disseminated it nearly everywhere via the internet, which
it also created, and brought hitherto unprecedented
computing power to the desktops of virtually anyone who
wanted it.

One of the computer revolution's main accomplishments is
ushering in the "end of distance".

Quoted message said:

I think by far the greatest achievement of this generation
has been the desktop computer and the internet. The
internet is by far the greatest democratizing influence
the world has ever seen, and access to it is made possible
by computer innovations that have reduced the cost of a
computing unit from levels prohibitive to all but the
largest corporations and government agencies to levels
within the reach of high school students with babysitting
and lawn mowing money, all in a single generation, and for
machines of immsely greater power.

I had the pleasure knowing very well the late (alas!) Jon
Postel, one of the three authors of TCP/IP, designer of many
of the base protocols, editor of the RFC's, keeper of the
Domain Name system, and master of all routes. I remember him
telling me in '91 that the Web revolution was coming, and it
was going to be huge. My wife worked for him when the entire
internet (then called ArpaNet) consisted of 5 or 6 colleges
swapping files and emails.

Quoted message said:

It is hard for us to imagine the eventual outcome of this
revolution, but I suspect it is going to be something
akin to the revolution spawned by the invention of the
printing press (which, incidentally, drove a stake
through the heart of the dark ages).

I'm a bit less bubbily. The Internet seems now to be a
quantitative, not qualitative, improvement. The telephone is
a century old, the written word has been widely distributed
in 3D for centuries, and everyone can sign up for a 400
channel sattelite service. The internet can give (right or
wrong) answers *now*. It decreases friction, and speeds up
research dramatically.

Want to read a poem you haven't seen in years? Just Google
in a small passage ;-).

--Dan

Quoted message said:

Yeats the greatest poet? I don't think so.

I agree. Roger and I are the greatest poets, past and
present. I believe we proved that a few months back.

Surf

Ok, the *other* greatest poet. :-)

For some odd reason, Yeats fills my mind with pictures.

--Dan

"Edward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Yeats the greatest poet? I don't think so.

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow Out
of this stony rubbish? Son of man, You cannot say, or
guess, for you know only A heap of broken images, where
the sun beats, And the dead tree gives no shelter, the
cricket no relief, And the dry stone no sound of water.
Only There is shadow under this red rock, (Come in
under the shadow of this red rock), And I will show you
something different from either Your shadow at morning
striding behind you Or you shadow at evening rising to
meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
bookgroup.org.ukbookgroup.org.ukOpen ↗

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kerry Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I had the pleasure knowing very well the late (alas!) Jon
Postel,

one of the

Quoted message said:

three authors of TCP/IP, designer of many of the base
protocols,

editor of

Quoted message said:

the RFC's, keeper of the Domain Name system, and
master of all

routes. I

Quoted message said:

remember him telling me in '91 that the Web revolution
was coming,

and it

Quoted message said:

was going to be huge. My wife worked for him when
the entire

internet (then

Quoted message said:

called ArpaNet) consisted of 5 or 6 colleges swapping
files and

emails.

Dan, thanks for the trip down memory lane but I'm trying to
forget TCP/IP and those God awful books we all had to read.
😉 Next thing we will covering assembler, Cobol and RPG
languages and a smattering of SNOBOL and APL. 🙂

--
Doug 'trying to retire those thoughts" Freese
[email hidden]
(Remove the NOBS)

On Fri, 14 May 2004 07:51:25 -0500, "Surf McBrowse" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I agree. Roger and I are the greatest poets, past and
present. I believe we proved that a few months back.

Surf, I thought *I* was rather good. I wasn't too convinced
by your effort though...

Emily.

Quoted message said:

Surf, I thought *I* was rather good. I wasn't too
convinced by your effort though...

Pffftt! I was being charitable including your hackneyed
prose with my profound doggerels. IIRC your contributions
were much to do with taunting genitalia whilst mine were
inspiring reflections on the runner's struggle between mind
and body. Oh [censored]!, I suppose that is what yours were about
too then ... very deep.

Surf

"Surf McBrowse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

taunting genitalia

...truly great poetry comprises nothing else.

Quoted message said:

To quote the century's greatest poet

Joni Mitchell? (who wrote what you quoted)...

Or did you mean WB Yeats? (who wrote this, in The
Second Coming):

Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot
hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot
hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-
dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of
innocence is drowned; The best lack all convictions, while
the worst Are full of passionate intensity.

If you meant Yeats, as I suspect, you might enjoy this site:

online-literature.comyeatsOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Some interesting times are upon us; I hope we rise to them,
and earn our

redemption.

I'm reminded of that curse: "May you live in interesting
times." For those of us with young children, interesting
times are not exactly what we're hoping for.

[email hidden] (TopCounsel) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Edward quoted:

Quoted message said:

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow Out
of this stony rubbish? Son of man, You cannot say, or
guess, for you know only A heap of broken images, where
the sun beats, And the dead tree gives no shelter, the
cricket no relief, And the dry stone no sound of water.
Only There is shadow under this red rock, (Come in under
the shadow of this red rock), And I will show you
something different from either Your shadow at morning
striding behind you Or you shadow at evening rising to
meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

"The Waste Land" is quite readable. "Prufrock" on the
other hand is something I've never been able to relate to
even remotely. The more interesting thing about Eliot may
be that he chose to leave America for England and lived
there the last 40 years of his life. Is there something in
Britain that is more conducive to poetic inspiration than
what is found here?

The Thames?

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
bookgroup.org.ukbookgroup.org.ukOpen ↗

Caroline's adorable cousin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 14 May 2004 11:38:24 -0700, [email hidden] (Kerry

Wilson) said:

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn that generation. It's
achievements are perhaps less conspicuous but are
nevertheless notable.

I didn't suggest that we'd done nothing. We made a
considerable effort to ensure that life was comfortable
for ourselves.

As did the "greatest generation". Or have you forgotten the
size of those yank tanks that Detroit pumped out in the
'50s and '60s?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the US, this was the generation that made some
semblance of equality between the races a reality,
abandoned the cold war (which was, incidentally, put in
place by that "greatest generation"😉, eradicated
smallpox,

OK, so we dealt with a few irritations...

It seems as if you've lived a charmed life. Racial
discrimination and diseases whose effects run from
disfiguring to fatal merit a status of "irritants" in your
world. Not everyone has been so lucky.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mapped the human genome,

...a few scientists and computer boffins earned their
grant money...

Well, yes, it IS nice to be able to keep a roof over your
family while you are trying to solve age-old problems, I
do admit...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vastly enlarged humankind's understanding of the world
and disseminated it nearly everywhere via the internet,

...created Usenet...

Quoted message said:

which it also created, and brought hitherto unprecedented
computing power to the desktops of virtually anyone who
wanted it.

...and the PS2...

Ummm.... well, yes, I guess you've got a point there.
Evolutionary processes do seem to generate their fare share
of (thankfully short-lived) side shows!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This does not pehaps match the great achievement and
sacrifice made by the previous generation in prevailing
over fascism and naziism,

True. It doesn't even come close, does it?

Dunno really. We didn't have a crushing depression to make
us appreciate the good things we have and to teach us the
value of teamwork and pulling together. Nor did we have a
war on anything like the scope of WWII to make us pull
together as a nation and as allies. Instead, we had a highly
divisive military adventure, brought to us by none other
than that "greatest generation", in which we got to see our
friends kill, die, and get maimed physically and
psychologically while our national image lost its luster,
and at the same time found that the "greatest generation"
left us powerless do do anything to stop it, going so far as
to assassinate its own president and shoot its own children
on college campuses rather than face up to an enormous
national mistake. If you want to understand why we seem to
be self-serving, just look at what happened when we tried to
be otherwise.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but they are achievements that will have far reaching
consequences.

...for the bank balances of western entrepreneurs

Quoted message said:

Having said that, the excesses of this generation are a
black mark upon it.

Hell, we didn't even do excess well. The drug culture was
seedy and introspective. Couldn't we have arranged
colourful Roman-style orgies instead?

revolution was fantasitc while it lasted!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Weren't you ever 22 years old?

Yes, but I was playing soldiers in Rhodesia at the time
therefore I was more focussed on staying alive than taking
a Giant Step On Behalf Of Humanity. What was your excuse?

Well, let's see, I was serving in the Peace Corps in a small
third-world country that was trying to get a few of its
people educated...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I seem to remember my own... uh... fair city (Washington
DC) having a very lively young adult scene. I enjoyed it
immensely. We, of course, were mainly concerned with 1)
Race issues 2) War in VietNam at the time, so perhaps we
weren't as optimistic as the present generation may be,
but we are all the products of our age. That was ours,
and this is theirs.

My point exactly. We became bogged down in 'solving'
(which we never
did) some of the problems created by our parents
generation, rather than focussing on creating
something new. If I read today's youth correctly they
don't give a hoot about us, but they do have a very
clear idea of the world they want. I think they have
a better than even chance of getting it.

You mean a world oriented toward Game Boys, cell phones, and
6 hours per day watching drivel on TV? No thanks. Anyway, we
were the same way when we were their age. We knew what kind
of world we wanted, too. Of course, as we tried to make it
that way, we found that there were a lot of people who had
different ideas -- especially the "greatest generation" --
and that those people had a say in that world too.

Besides, I'm not sure them not giving a hoot about us is
such a good thing. Probably one of the worst things that
happened between our generation and the "greatest
generation: was the breakdown in communications over the
Viet Nam war, recreational drugs, and race relations. The
upshot was that we rejected their world, essentially
throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't think our
generation was well-served by this state of affairs, and I
don't think the next one will be either.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, you can choose to look at the good things or the
bad things or all things. There is certainly enough good
and bad to justify whatever position you choose to hold.

That's a neat sidestep. The *balance*, dear Kerry, is
clear. We blew the opportunity - created by near 30 years
of a mainly peaceful world - to create something
spectacular. We did, however, collect a healthy bank
balance, a sound pension plan, and an attractive
collection of automobiles in our drive.

I see. And exactly what kind of spectacular world should we
have created? If you're anything like 95% of the people in
developed countries, you probably have a pretty well-stocked
refrigerator without having to have dug a single spud in
your life. Not too bad on the balance, seeing as how digging
spuds is monotonous toil that has very few redeeming
qualities save allowing you to keep body and soul together.
And the thing that has led to this happy state of affairs is
the efforts of countless people in your generation who go to
work every day and get the spuds planted nurtured,
harvested, washed, bagged, and delivered neatly to a
supermarket near you. This might not be spectacular, but if
keeps a heck of a lot of people fed and frees them to follow
more "spectacular" pursuits.

I don't disagree with some of your points, but since you
mentioned *balance*...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think by far the greatest achievement of this
generation has been the desktop computer and the
internet. The internet is by far the greatest
democratizing influence the world has ever seen, and
access to it is made possible by computer innovations
that have reduced the cost of a computing unit from
levels prohibitive to all but the largest corporations
and government agencies to levels within the reach of
high school students with babysitting and lawn mowing
money, all in a single generation, and for machines of
immsely greater power. It is hard for us to imagine the
eventual outcome of this revolution, but I suspect it is
going to be something akin to the revolution spawned by
the invention of the printing press (which, incidentally,
drove a stake through the heart of the dark ages).

Huh? Kerry, it's a glorified TOY. A fun toy and an
informative toy, but a toy nevertheless. As a tool for
communication, it has its place. But its usefulness rather
depends on the users having something relevant to
communicate...

And that is the point. Before Usenet, what got published and
disseminated was decided by publishers, who evaluated
material on the basis of whether it could make money, or, in
the case of publishers with organizational funding, whether
the material fit their advocacy position. The internet is
not subject to these restrictions. You can disseminate
nearly any kind of information you like. This is what gives
it its democratizing influence. Furthermore, I expect that
tools will eventually become available that greatly assist
in the task of translating languages. When this occurs, and
I think it's "when" rather than "if", the internet will
become by far the greatest information resource on earth.

Now, since we're talking about "something relevant to
communicate", I have to ask, will the next generation have
more of relevance to communicate that we do?

By the way, I hope the answer is "yes". I still believe in
the concept that one should leave the world a better place
than one finds it, and that we should work to see to it that
the next generation has it better than we did.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, it is indeed sad to see so many people sleep-
walking through life, or, worse yet, people whose lives
consist of cherry-picking without feeling the need to
plant a few trees of their own, and I will not try to
defend them. Nevertheless, I know a lot of very dedicated
and hard-working people who do not fit the picture you
paint at all. Hopefully, there's a little room in one
corner of your painting for those people.

The trouble with corners is that they're usually dark,
uninteresting and unimportant in the overall scheme of the
picture.

Hmmm... Interesting... What you describe seems to make the
whole picture rather dark, uninteresting and unimportant....

Quoted message said:

Emily. Sorry. Not convinced. Not at all.

On 17 May 2004 07:25:58 -0700, [email hidden] (Kerry Wilson)

Quoted message said:

As did the "greatest generation". Or have you forgotten the
size of those yank tanks that Detroit pumped out in the
'50s and '60s?

But in the UK we were busy inventing the Mini...

Quoted message said:

It seems as if you've lived a charmed life. Racial
discrimination and diseases whose effects run from
disfiguring to fatal merit a status of "irritants" in your
world. Not everyone has been so lucky.

OK, I'll concede that one.

Quoted message said:

Well, let's see, I was serving in the Peace Corps in a
small third-world country that was trying to get a few of
its people educated...

Ooops! Not in Mozambique, I hope. I seem to remember
sending a few
7.62mm rounds in the direction the inhabitants of that fair
land. Mind you, they were doing the same to me. So that
makes it fair exchange, right?

Quoted message said:

You mean a world oriented toward Game Boys, cell phones,
and 6 hours per day watching drivel on TV?

Do you believe *everything* your mass media feeds you? The
18-25 y-old I know are doing far more than our generation
ever contemplated, in addition to playing with Game boys,
cell phones....

Quoted message said:

No thanks. Anyway, we were the same way when we were their
age. We knew what kind of world we wanted, too.

And sold our dreams for a secure income in a high-tech, high
growth, media-friendly, share-incentive, annual-bonus, air-
conditioned, bluetooth-compatible, office somewhere.

Quoted message said:

Of course, as we tried to make it that way, we found that
there were a lot of people who had different ideas --
especially the "greatest generation" -- and that those
people had a say in that world too.

Yeah, so we gave up and settled for the world noted above.
Proof, if proof were needed, that we have the backbone of a
jellyfish.

Quoted message said:

Besides, I'm not sure them not giving a hoot about us is
such a good thing.

Pardon me? You think we've set an example to be followed?

Quoted message said:

Probably one of the worst things that happened between our
generation and the "greatest generation: was the breakdown
in communications over the Viet Nam war, recreational
drugs, and race relations. The upshot was that we rejected
their world, essentially throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. I don't think our generation was well-served by
this state of affairs, and I don't think the next one will
be either.

Again, pardon me? We didn't 'reject' anything. We didn't get
our way first time of asking so we stormed off in a giant
sulk and gave up. Simple as that.

Quoted message said:

I see.

No, I don't think you do...

Quoted message said:

And exactly what kind of spectacular world should we have
created?

I dunno, but I'd happily have tried if you had.

Quoted message said:

If you're anything like 95% of the people in developed
countries, you probably have a pretty well-stocked
refrigerator without having to have dug a single spud in
your life.

Say after me;

"I must not leap to conclusions, I must not leap to
conclusions".

Repeat 100 times. There. Have you learnt your lesson?

I have an appallingly stocked refrigerator and I steal spuds
at night from the farmers field at the back of my garden.

Quoted message said:

Not too bad on the balance, seeing as how digging spuds
is monotonous toil that has very few redeeming qualities
save allowing you to keep body and soul together.

Actually, I feel that my Spud Liberation Front activities
constitute an anarchic response to the crass commerciality
of the supermarket culture. Are you with me on this, Kerry?
You gonna liberate spuds too?

Quoted message said:

And the thing that has led to this happy state of affairs
is the efforts of countless people in your generation who
go to work every day and get the spuds planted nurtured,
harvested, washed, bagged, and delivered neatly to a
supermarket near you. This might not be spectacular, but
if keeps a heck of a lot of people fed and frees them to
follow more "spectacular" pursuits.

I thought you'd developed quite a sound argument until you
went down this spud route. However I now think you've
'mashed' all your good work and 'dehydrated' the value of
your words. You've had your chips.

<I think that's enough spud references for one day...>

Quoted message said:

And that is the point. Before Usenet, what got published
and disseminated was decided by publishers, who evaluated
material on the basis of whether it could make money, or,
in the case of publishers with organizational funding,
whether the material fit their advocacy position. The
internet is not subject to these restrictions. You can
disseminate nearly any kind of information you like.

Kerry, the only people on Usenet are the curious, the crazy
and trolls like me (who are probably both). The only people
that believe all they come across on the 'net are fools.

To be fair, the 'net is but a mirror of the world in which
we live, but it ain't gonna be our Saviour. No, for that
humanity had better look to the second (or first) coming OR
get down on its knees and hope the next generation isn't as
totally useless as ours.

Quoted message said:

This is what gives it its democratizing influence.
Furthermore, I expect that tools will eventually become
available that greatly assist in the task of translating
languages. When this occurs, and I think it's "when" rather
than "if", the internet will become by far the greatest
information resource on earth.

Jeeze, you really do *love* the 'net, don't you?

Quoted message said:

Now, since we're talking about "something relevant to
communicate", I have to ask, will the next generation have
more of relevance to communicate that we do?

It's hard to see how they could do any worse.

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... Interesting... What you describe seems to make the
whole picture rather dark, uninteresting and
unimportant....

Well, if that's your take on a realistic appraisal of our
generations contribution, so be it.

I think we serve as a handy example of what happens
when you indulge in too much navel-gazing. Perhaps
that's our greatest legacy - generations to come will
point to us and say;

"Look! That's what'll happen to us if we take our eye off
the ball!"

Emily. Happy to stand as an example of all that's
pointless in life.

On 17 May 2004 07:25:58 -0700, [email hidden] (Kerry Wilson)

Quoted message said:

As did the "greatest generation". Or have you forgotten the
size of those yank tanks that Detroit pumped out in the
'50s and '60s?

But in the UK we were busy inventing the Mini...

Quoted message said:

It seems as if you've lived a charmed life. Racial
discrimination and diseases whose effects run from
disfiguring to fatal merit a status of "irritants" in your
world. Not everyone has been so lucky.

OK, I'll concede that one.

Quoted message said:

Well, let's see, I was serving in the Peace Corps in a
small third-world country that was trying to get a few of
its people educated...

Ooops! Not in Mozambique, I hope. I seem to remember
sending a few
7.62mm rounds in the direction the inhabitants of that fair
land. Mind you, they were doing the same to me. So that
makes it fair exchange, right?

Quoted message said:

You mean a world oriented toward Game Boys, cell phones,
and 6 hours per day watching drivel on TV?

Do you believe *everything* your mass media feeds you? The
18-25 y-old I know are doing far more than our generation
ever contemplated, in addition to playing with Game boys,
cell phones....

Quoted message said:

No thanks. Anyway, we were the same way when we were their
age. We knew what kind of world we wanted, too.

And sold our dreams for a secure income in a high-tech, high
growth, media-friendly, share-incentive, annual-bonus, air-
conditioned, bluetooth-compatible, office somewhere.

Quoted message said:

Of course, as we tried to make it that way, we found that
there were a lot of people who had different ideas --
especially the "greatest generation" -- and that those
people had a say in that world too.

Yeah, so we gave up and settled for the world noted above.
Proof, if proof were needed, that we have the backbone of a
jellyfish.

Quoted message said:

Besides, I'm not sure them not giving a hoot about us is
such a good thing.

Pardon me? You think we've set an example to be followed?

Quoted message said:

Probably one of the worst things that happened between our
generation and the "greatest generation: was the breakdown
in communications over the Viet Nam war, recreational
drugs, and race relations. The upshot was that we rejected
their world, essentially throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. I don't think our generation was well-served by
this state of affairs, and I don't think the next one will
be either.

Again, pardon me? We didn't 'reject' anything. We didn't get
our way first time of asking so we stormed off in a giant
sulk and gave up. Simple as that.

Quoted message said:

I see.

No, I don't think you do...

Quoted message said:

And exactly what kind of spectacular world should we have
created?

I dunno, but I'd happily have tried if you had.

Quoted message said:

If you're anything like 95% of the people in developed
countries, you probably have a pretty well-stocked
refrigerator without having to have dug a single spud in
your life.

Say after me;

"I must not leap to conclusions, I must not leap to
conclusions".

Repeat 100 times. There. Have you learnt your lesson?

I have an appallingly stocked refrigerator and I steal spuds
at night from the farmers field at the back of my garden.

Quoted message said:

Not too bad on the balance, seeing as how digging spuds
is monotonous toil that has very few redeeming qualities
save allowing you to keep body and soul together.

Actually, I feel that my Spud Liberation Front activities
constitute an anarchic response to the crass commerciality
of the supermarket culture. Are you with me on this, Kerry?
You gonna liberate spuds too?

Quoted message said:

And the thing that has led to this happy state of affairs
is the efforts of countless people in your generation who
go to work every day and get the spuds planted nurtured,
harvested, washed, bagged, and delivered neatly to a
supermarket near you. This might not be spectacular, but
if keeps a heck of a lot of people fed and frees them to
follow more "spectacular" pursuits.

I thought you'd developed quite a sound argument until you
went down this spud route. However I now think you've
'mashed' all your good work and 'dehydrated' the value of
your words. You've had your chips.

<I think that's enough spud references for one day...>

Quoted message said:

And that is the point. Before Usenet, what got published
and disseminated was decided by publishers, who evaluated
material on the basis of whether it could make money, or,
in the case of publishers with organizational funding,
whether the material fit their advocacy position. The
internet is not subject to these restrictions. You can
disseminate nearly any kind of information you like.

Kerry, the only people on Usenet are the curious, the crazy
and trolls like me (who are probably both). The only people
that believe all they come across on the 'net are fools.

To be fair, the 'net is but a mirror of the world in which
we live, but it ain't gonna be our Saviour. No, for that
humanity had better look to the second (or first) coming OR
get down on its knees and hope the next generation isn't as
totally useless as ours.

Quoted message said:

This is what gives it its democratizing influence.
Furthermore, I expect that tools will eventually become
available that greatly assist in the task of translating
languages. When this occurs, and I think it's "when" rather
than "if", the internet will become by far the greatest
information resource on earth.

Jeeze, you really do *love* the 'net, don't you?

Quoted message said:

Now, since we're talking about "something relevant to
communicate", I have to ask, will the next generation have
more of relevance to communicate that we do?

It's hard to see how they could do any worse.

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... Interesting... What you describe seems to make the
whole picture rather dark, uninteresting and
unimportant....

Well, if that's your take on a realistic appraisal of our
generations contribution, so be it.

I think we serve as a handy example of what happens
when you indulge in too much navel-gazing. Perhaps
that's our greatest legacy - generations to come will
point to us and say;

"Look! That's what'll happen to us if we take our eye off
the ball!"

Emily. Happy to stand as an example of all that's
pointless in life.

Caroline's adorable cousin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 17 May 2004 07:25:58 -0700, [email hidden] (Kerry

Wilson) said:

As did the "greatest generation". Or have you forgotten
the size of those yank tanks that Detroit pumped out in
the '50s and '60s?

But in the UK we were busy inventing the Mini...

See, that's the value of adversity. You guys were contending
with a small land area and high gaso... er... petrol prices,
so small cars made sense. We were dealing with large land
area, long distances, and cheap gas. Not to say that those
yank tanks weren't still a bit over the top.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, let's see, I was serving in the Peace Corps in a
small third-world country that was trying to get a few of
its people educated...

Ooops! Not in Mozambique, I hope. I seem to remember
sending a few
7.62mm rounds in the direction the inhabitants of that
fair land. Mind you, they were doing the same to me. So
that makes it fair exchange, right?

Zackly. But that wasn't me. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean a world oriented toward Game Boys, cell phones,
and 6 hours per day watching drivel on TV?

Do you believe *everything* your mass media feeds you?

Nope. I just watch how my 20-yo son and his friends choose
to spend their time. (My 16-yo daughter still listens to me,
so it's too early to say with her.)

Quoted message said:

The 18-25 y-old I know are doing far more than our
generation ever contemplated, in addition to playing with
Game boys, cell phones....

Such as?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No thanks. Anyway, we were the same way when we were
their age. We knew what kind of world we wanted, too.

And sold our dreams for a secure income in a high-tech,
high growth, media-friendly, share-incentive, annual-
bonus, air-conditioned, bluetooth-compatible, office
somewhere.

Well, let's see. I taught school, served in the Peace Corps,
worked with an environmental research firm, worked at a
hospital with an epilepsy surgical group, and now build test
equipment for the systems that bring you this newsgroup. The
pay sucked in all but one of these, but it was a way to try
to make the world a little better while making a living by
using my brain. I'm not exactly typical, but I'm hardly
unique either.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, as we tried to make it that way, we found
that there were a lot of people who had different ideas
-- especially the "greatest generation" -- and that
those people had a say in that world too.

Yeah, so we gave up and settled for the world noted above.

Uh, actually, I'd say we more like *inherited* that world.
The world that the "greatest generation" left us. Much as
you want to believe that they were the greatest and we suck,
the fact is that we've just taken the world that they left
us the next step.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, I'm not sure them not giving a hoot about us is
such a good thing.

Pardon me? You think we've set an example to be followed?

Maybe not, but things could be much worse.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I see.

No, I don't think you do...

Oh, you mean anyone who doesn't see our generation as
anything but a bunch of sniveling, greedy, self-serving
losers who could care less about society in general or the
planet we live on just doesn't get it? I'll wager I've seen
as much of the world and its problems as you have, and one
thing I do know is that everyone has their problems and 75%
of the world would gladly trade theirs for ours. And I'm not
sure I'm ready to hang up my spikes just yet either, cause I
haven't heard the fat lady sing...

Although I have heard some whining from the peanut
gallery. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And exactly what kind of spectacular world should we
have created?

I dunno, but I'd happily have tried if you had.

I'm still trying. After your searing (and insightful)
indictment, I was hoping you would have some ideas...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you're anything like 95% of the people in developed
countries, you probably have a pretty well-stocked
refrigerator without having to have dug a single spud in
your life.

Say after me;

"I must not leap to conclusions, I must not leap to
conclusions".

Repeat 100 times. There. Have you learnt your lesson?

Uh... Actually that wasn't a conclusion. It was a statistic.

Quoted message said:

Actually, I feel that my Spud Liberation Front activities
constitute an anarchic response to the crass commerciality
of the supermarket culture. Are you with me on this,
Kerry? You gonna liberate spuds too?

Actually, I agree with you there. I dig my fair share of
spuds, so I don't know if "liberate" is the right word. I
just hope the right word isn't "exploit". Do we owe the
spuds a good life before we eat them? I dunno. It's one of
those "contemplating my navel" questions that I can only
pause to meditate on occasionally.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And that is the point. Before Usenet, what got published
and disseminated was decided by publishers, who evaluated
material on the basis of whether it could make money, or,
in the case of publishers with organizational funding,
whether the material fit their advocacy position. The
internet is not subject to these restrictions. You can
disseminate nearly any kind of information you like.

Kerry, the only people on Usenet are the curious, the
crazy and trolls like me (who are probably both).

Well, I know that, and I certainly don't feel the need to
apologize for it. If it wasn't for the curious, the crazy,
and the trolls, humanity would still be living in the
stone ages.

Quoted message said:

To be fair, the 'net is but a mirror of the world in which
we live, but it ain't gonna be our Saviour. No, for that
humanity had better look to the second (or first) coming
OR get down on its knees and hope the next generation
isn't as totally useless as ours.

... gee, I guess the clock's run down to zero already. And I
didn't even hear the two-minute warning...

Quoted message said:

Jeeze, you really do *love* the 'net, don't you?

Well, given that it's what is allowing us to communicate
right now -- something that was virtually unheard of less
than 20 years ago -- it seems like a logical topic of
conversation...

Quoted message said:

I think we serve as a handy example of what happens when
you indulge in too much navel-gazing. Perhaps that's our
greatest legacy - generations to come will point to us
and say;

"Look! That's what'll happen to us if we take our eye off
the ball!"

I eagerly await your suggestions for a better world...

Kerry. Yes, I know. The proper form is "on which I can only
occasionally pause to meditate."