Electric shifters

Quoted post said:

After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...

Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
opinion.

For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites like
www.cyclingnews.com

In fact, here's a few write ups:

Shimano:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine_libere_207

Campy photos:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tech/features/tour_tech_407/gallery-tour_tech_407

To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
Campy Only:
http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

Pez has a nice write up too:
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772

bfd said:

On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used

Quoted message said:

in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...

Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
opinion.

For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites likewww.cyclingnews.com

In fact, here's a few write ups:

Shimano:http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine_li...

Campy photos:http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/photos...

To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
Campy Only:http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

Pez has a nice write up too:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772

mavic had a set out about 12 years ago

Quoted message said:

bfd said:

On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used

Quoted message said:

in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...

Quoted message said:

Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
opinion.

Quoted message said:

For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites likewww.cyclingnews.com

Quoted message said:

In fact, here's a few write ups:

Quoted message said:

Shimano:http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine_li...

Quoted message said:

Campy photos:http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/photos...

Quoted message said:

To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
Campy Only:http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

Quoted message said:

Pez has a nice write up too:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772

mavic had a set out about 12 years ago- Hide quoted text -

So, what does that have to do with anything? Obviously, the Mavic
version was a failure.

Its 2007, both Campy and Shimano have electronic shifting. Let's see
how well they perform! But, until something appears that is more than
just a prototype, I wouldn't get too worked up.

My guess is that, if electronic shifting is successful, we will see
the return of half-step gearing. A ten speed cluster is pretty much
the limit. Right now you can run straight cassettes (12-21) with a
compact crank, cover the racing range, and not have any place to add
another gear. But, if you went to half step (or 1/3 step triples
anyone?), you suddenly have double density. You could have a twist
dail that calculates where to throw the chain depending upon how much
you twist it. Nearly continuous gearing...

JG

JG said:

My guess is that, if electronic shifting is successful, we will see
the return of half-step gearing. A ten speed cluster is pretty much
the limit. Right now you can run straight cassettes (12-21) with a
compact crank, cover the racing range, and not have any place to add
another gear. But, if you went to half step (or 1/3 step triples
anyone?), you suddenly have double density. You could have a twist
dail that calculates where to throw the chain depending upon how much
you twist it. Nearly continuous gearing...

JG

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
bike.

BD

In article <[email hidden]>,

bfd said:

Quoted message said:

bfd said:

On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:> After
seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> opinions on them...

Quoted message said:

Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
opinion.

Quoted message said:

For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites
likewww.cyclingnews.com

Quoted message said:

In fact, here's a few write ups:

Quoted message said:

Shimano:http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine
_li...

Quoted message said:

Campy
photos:http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/phot
os...

Quoted message said:

To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
Campy Only:http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

Quoted message said:

Pez has a nice write up
too:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772

mavic had a set out about 12 years ago- Hide quoted text -

So, what does that have to do with anything? Obviously, the Mavic
version was a failure.

Its 2007, both Campy and Shimano have electronic shifting. Let's see
how well they perform! But, until something appears that is more than
just a prototype, I wouldn't get too worked up.

The noteworthy thing is that both companies have been sneaking this
technology onto pro bikes for a couple of years. I suspect it partly
exists as a tactical research project: neither company may believe their
system is ready for prime time, but both need a hedge against the other
company introducing the thing.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

JG said:

My guess is that, if electronic shifting is successful, we will see
the return of half-step gearing. A ten speed cluster is pretty much
the limit. Right now you can run straight cassettes (12-21) with a
compact crank, cover the racing range, and not have any place to add
another gear. But, if you went to half step (or 1/3 step triples
anyone?), you suddenly have double density. You could have a twist
dail that calculates where to throw the chain depending upon how much
you twist it. Nearly continuous gearing...

Quoted message said:

JG

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.

S-a-l-e-s G-i-m-m-i-c-k

Quoted message said:

What happens
when the battery dies on a climb?

Welcome to S***'s Creek!

I'd like nothing electronic on my

Quoted message said:

bike.

Maybe a simple cyclo-computer....

Quoted message said:

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.

The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
without a car following us with a replacement battery and
complete bike.

Quoted post said:

After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...

Cheers!

It sucks horribly. It's another thing that's unnecessary in any kind
of practical sense but gives a significant enough advantage in a race
to be relevant there. It's more electronic [censored] to be produced in a
world that really doesn't need it. It is yet another thing that pushes
bikes as a whole, and road bikes in particular, in the more expensive
direction. It's going to be a milestone in componentry that doesn't
interchange well or at all. And it's main function, in the end, is
going to be to further cater to and enthrone the typical consumer's
moronic fears and confusions about shifting.

The way things are going, in 6-8 years from now it probably will have
trickled down into around 105/Centaur/Veloce level groups. That's the
point where Shimano and Campy's production of decent quality
components that don't use it will begin to get dicey. Not stop
outright, but options will start drying up, never to come back. I bet
mechanical non-Escape Ergos will be gone a few years before that.
Mechanical 9 and 10 speed bar-end shifters made by Shimano and Campy
will become extinct. Hopefully someone else will fill in some of the
holes.

Just my own guesses, of course, but it's sort of the way things work
right now...

Quoted message said:

After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...

Cheers!

Ct = 0.9

listen to the retro-grouch whiners! they sound like the retrogrouch
whiners that complained about electronic ignition. they sound like the
retrogrouch whiners that complained about fuel injection. they sound
like the retrogrouch whiners that complained about the death of the abacus.

point is, all this stuff has to do is pass two simple tests.

1. does it work as well as the old stuff?
2. does it offer any improvement?

imo, if it's smart enough to trim itself to not need adjustment thereby
passing test #2, it'll be a winner. anything that takes the idiot
factor out of the lbs is a good thing.

Michael Warner said:

Quoted message said:

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.

The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
without a car following us with a replacement battery and
complete bike.

Exactly.

And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
gears, and each five grams that get removed from a bike frame, and so
on.

The only justification many cyclists need is "Oh, the racers use it!
And it makes my riding 0.001% easier, so I've _got_ to have it!"

If they market it, it will sell. And anyone who doesn't rave about it
will be mocked.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
bike.

One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
locations.
So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
the bar.
-------------------------
Alex

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Michael Warner said:

Quoted message said:

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.

The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
without a car following us with a replacement battery and
complete bike.

Exactly.

And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
gears, and each five grams that get removed from a bike frame, and so
on.

The only justification many cyclists need is "Oh, the racers use it!
And it makes my riding 0.001% easier, so I've _got_ to have it!"

If they market it, it will sell. And anyone who doesn't rave about it
will be mocked.

- Frank Krygowski

Well, not everyone is an old fart on a bike like you. Some who read here
may be racers, as in that 0.1% remaining. How many could that be? Don't
know, but it sure doesn't include you. When you are racing, RACING, it may
just count, and work, and contribute to a better result. Don't worry - your
trip to the supermarket is not included. Shift with any available
appendage, even if not in current use.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].

Alex said:

Quoted message said:

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
bike.

One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
locations.
So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
the bar.

And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.

Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
bike. 🙁(

Ozark Bicycle said:

Alex said:

On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
bike.

Quoted message said:

One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
locations.
So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
the bar.

And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.

Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
bike. 🙁(

Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
market.

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...

Quoted message said:

Cheers!

Ct = 0.9

listen to the retro-grouch whiners! they sound like the retrogrouch
whiners that complained about electronic ignition. they sound like the
retrogrouch whiners that complained about fuel injection. they sound
like the retrogrouch whiners that complained about the death of the abacus.

point is, all this stuff has to do is pass two simple tests.

1. does it work as well as the old stuff?
2. does it offer any improvement?

imo, if it's smart enough to trim itself to not need adjustment thereby
passing test #2, it'll be a winner. anything that takes the idiot
factor out of the lbs is a good thing.

well there could be numerous benefits in time, such that we'll shake
our head remembering the old days how we used to do it. consider, a
small watch battery to operate the derailer; there is no spring
tension to overcome, just a small actuator would engage and your
padaling will cause the gear shift- so you'd have considerable weight
savings AND reliability- no cable stretch, grime in the shifters or
the cables; the derailer could be a completely sealed unit. you could
wear your shifter as a ring so it's always at hand- combine that with
bluetooth disc brakes and you can see there are a lot of possibilities
to look forward to.

Joe Bernard said:

On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
locations.
So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
the bar.

Quoted message said:

And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.

Quoted message said:

Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
bike. 🙁(

Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
market

Whilst the Riv-ites are the *serious* cyclists, right?

Ozark Bicycle said:

Joe Bernard said:

On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> locations.
> So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> the bar.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
bike. 🙁(

Quoted message said:

Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
market

Whilst the Riv-ites are the *serious* cyclists, right?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't be paranoid, Ozark. Racers, techies and 20-milers are legitimate
riders. My point is that for every retrogrouch, tourer or "Riv-ite"
who scoffs at electronics on bicycles, there's a much larger majority
of buyers that will love it. I personally think being able to lightly
tap a button in several different locations to execute a shift is
pretty nifty. I wouldn't want to rely on it in a tour through the
Amazon, but I think it would be fine for most day rides. If you can
carry a spare tube, you can carry a spare battery.

Joe Bernard said:

On Aug 1, 5:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Aug 1, 5:37 pm, Joe Bernard <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > > bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> > locations.
> > So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> > the bar.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
> wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
> small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
> profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
> cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
> downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
> bike. 🙁(

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
market

Quoted message said:

Whilst the Riv-ites are the *serious* cyclists, right?- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Don't be paranoid, Ozark.

Don't be patronizing, Joe.

Quoted message said:

Racers, techies and 20-milers are legitimate
riders.

I'm sure they will bask in your approval.

Quoted message said:

My point is that for every retrogrouch, tourer or "Riv-ite"
who scoffs at electronics on bicycles, there's a much larger majority
of buyers that will love it. I personally think being able to lightly
tap a button in several different locations to execute a shift is
pretty nifty.

Shhh! You be drummed out of the Royal Order of GP Suckups.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't want to rely on it in a tour through the
Amazon, but I think it would be fine for most day rides. If you can
carry a spare tube, you can carry a spare battery.-

There's something to look forward to: stopping to replace a battery so
you can continue your ride.