Electric Bicycle Wheels

Terry Collins said:

Hass anyone built a electric assisted bicycle?

Specifically looking at someone who has built for speeds of 4-10km/hr,
e.g. cargo bikes.

Most of the motors on offer seemed to be aimed at the "I wanna goes as
fast as <insert latest fast bicycle rider here >, where as I am looking
at cargo bikes.

TIA.

Like this?
http://cleverchimp.com/
Introducing Stokemonkey Human Electric Hybrid Drive

Stokemonkey is an electric motor assist kit for Xtracycle® Sport Utility Bicycles. Xtracycle gives almost any bike amazing cargo capacity, and Stokemonkey gives you the power to haul it over mountains or swiftly across town.

Skewer said:

Like this?
http://cleverchimp.com/
Introducing Stokemonkey Human Electric Hybrid Drive

I was looking more at the in-hub motor style. Shown on this page
http://www.currietech.com.au/part_motor.shtml?openmenu=11

but I'm interested in any experiences.

Quoted message said:

Stokemonkey is an electric motor assist kit for Xtracycle® Sport Utility
Bicycles. Xtracycle gives almost any bike amazing cargo capacity, and
Stokemonkey gives you the power to haul it over mountains or swiftly
across town.

The problem with stokemonkey is that it is light on figures.

My 2c is that putting extra power through the drive chain isn't going to
do your drive chain much good, especially with derailliuer (sp?) gearing.

I was looking for a system where a two wheeled bicycle trailer could be
powered on each wheel to assist hauling the load over hills. Motors like
the stokemonkey could be used, but I'd want to be able to connect them
directly via chain drive.

bing, although, I could hack a proof of concept from two old bicycles
just welded together.

Still doesn't solve the frontwheel drive on the bike itself {:-)

Skewer said:

Terry Collins said:

Hass anyone built a electric assisted bicycle?

Specifically looking at someone who has built for speeds of 4-10km/hr,
e.g. cargo bikes.

Most of the motors on offer seemed to be aimed at the "I wanna goes as
fast as <insert latest fast bicycle rider here >, where as I am looking
at cargo bikes.

TIA.

Like this?
http://cleverchimp.com/
Introducing Stokemonkey Human Electric Hybrid Drive

Stokemonkey is an electric motor assist kit for Xtracycle® Sport Utility
Bicycles. Xtracycle gives almost any bike amazing cargo capacity, and
Stokemonkey gives you the power to haul it over mountains or swiftly
across town.

Or this?
http://www.largoscooters.com/go-hubkits.html
There are heaps of options. Google threw up
a long list.
Or an Australian site:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale1.htm
This guy has some great pictures of his systems held
together with gaffer tape!

I'd be interested in how you get on. My Dad is keen to
augment his MTB so he can use his bike more around the
hills of Adelaide.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

DeF said:

Google threw up a long list.

Unfortunately too long to be useful. It is becoming worse than Alta
Vista ever was (is that an add or a reference?).

I really want to see pages/talk to people who have carried out the
conversion and are not trying to sell me something {:-).

Quoted message said:

Or an Australian site:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale1.htm
This guy has some great pictures of his systems held
together with gaffer tape!

This is definitely interesting. It also illustrates what I need to find
out. He quoted a figure of 23km on the flat, but only 7km up a steep
hill. This is really useful information, although I shudder to think
what capacity batteries you need for bike + self + real load. Serious
batteries would augment the load severely, e.g 100kg+ to get 48V {:-(

Quoted message said:

I'd be interested in how you get on. My Dad is keen to
augment his MTB so he can use his bike more around the
hills of Adelaide.

Contact me after you see my name win lotto/powerball/etc. {:-)

The full project rough specs costing was ~$12,500 (lead acid batteries),
then when someone suggested Lithium packs, it blew out to over $20K[1]
ROFLMAO.

I don't have Adelaide style hills here, just a few that I can not avoid
or find any easier attack paths, but I have added something along this
line to my future projects list.

It will probably start with me building a bob style trailer to carry a
couple of serious batteries and use the 110 watt motors I currently have
through a chain drive system. Well, I have to do something with all the
old stuff {:-).

[1]Actually, that was NimH as i couldn't find a non-toy Lithium battery
pack.

On 2006-04-28, Terry Collins (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

DeF said:

Google threw up a long list.

Unfortunately too long to be useful. It is becoming worse than Alta
Vista ever was (is that an add or a reference?).

I really want to see pages/talk to people who have carried out the
conversion and are not trying to sell me something {:-).

The joys of a monoculture. Dammit, I tried using teoma for a while,
but like all the nifty features of goolge, as much as I'd hate to
admit it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd be interested in how you get on. My Dad is keen to
augment his MTB so he can use his bike more around the
hills of Adelaide.

Contact me after you see my name win lotto/powerball/etc. {:-)

The full project rough specs costing was ~$12,500 (lead acid batteries),

Which you'd be replacing every ~3 years (hmmm, that's more expensive
than petrol, and would be costing about as much energy in the
manufacturing of the batteries in the first place).

Did anyone notice that of the 3800lbs weight of the clever car (or one
of those other commuter cars mentioned the other day), about 900lbs
was the lightest battery? Glad (hope, anyway) the car uses
regenerative braking, although such braking only stores energy when
not having to suddenly stop the car.

Quoted message said:

then when someone suggested Lithium packs, it blew out to over $20K[1]
ROFLMAO.

Which you would be replacing every ~1 year. Ick!

--
TimC
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs. --unknown

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:56:24 +1000

Terry Collins said:

The full project rough specs costing was ~$12,500 (lead acid batteries),
then when someone suggested Lithium packs, it blew out to over $20K[1]
ROFLMAO.

I vagiely recall something in a Greenspeed newsletter about an assist
that charged up down hills and on the flat and helped uphills.

http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/specelec.html

http://www.greenspeed.com.au/newsletter7.htm

Zebee

Terry Collins said:

Skewer said:

Like this?
http://cleverchimp.com/
Introducing Stokemonkey Human Electric Hybrid Drive

I was looking more at the in-hub motor style. Shown on this page
http://www.currietech.com.au/part_motor.shtml?openmenu=11

but I'm interested in any experiences.

Quoted message said:

Stokemonkey is an electric motor assist kit for Xtracycle® Sport Utility
Bicycles. Xtracycle gives almost any bike amazing cargo capacity, and
Stokemonkey gives you the power to haul it over mountains or swiftly
across town.

The problem with stokemonkey is that it is light on figures.

My 2c is that putting extra power through the drive chain isn't going to
do your drive chain much good, especially with derailliuer (sp?) gearing.

I was looking for a system where a two wheeled bicycle trailer could be
powered on each wheel to assist hauling the load over hills. Motors like
the stokemonkey could be used, but I'd want to be able to connect them
directly via chain drive.

bing, although, I could hack a proof of concept from two old bicycles
just welded together.

Still doesn't solve the frontwheel drive on the bike itself {:-)

Avanti bikes sells a front drive electrical assist bike that uses an in hub
servo-motor rather that a straight out electric drive.

It's based on a design developed at Charle Darwin Uni.
http://www.cdu.edu.au/newsroom/story.php?nID=738
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s916760.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/catapult/stories/s1271298.htm

There is no hand throttle.
The system senses that you're pedalling forward and applies an assist to the front wheel.
When you stop pedaling it stops applying an assist.

http://www.avanti.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=24

In practice you only notice that it is doing anything special when you apply the brake.
It sort of surges momentarily until then decides tht you are braking at which point stops applying assist and switches to regenerative braking.
You have to manually switch to a regenerate mode if you want to charge the battery on long downhills.
Of course you also notice that you've arrived at your destination a lot sooner than normal ;-)

PeteB

Skewer said:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s916760.htm

That was a very informative article.
Designed for 2-3km/hr when most of us are falling over {:-). Seriously,
I really hope he is indicating it is designed for low speeds for
bicycles, rather than the one they put into the solar cars.

The other bit was that you recover 95% of energy put into a lithium
battery. However, he might like to update his 75% for lead acid, My
understanding is that it is 10/11 returned. Caveat, it might be a
charging rate variable figure because he was talking in the context of
solar cars.

Quoted message said:

The system senses that you're pedalling forward and applies an assist to
the front wheel.

Erk, I'd need some training to stop wobbling my bicycle when stopped {:-)

TimC said:

Quoted message said:

The full project rough specs costing was ~$12,500 (lead acid batteries),

Which you'd be replacing every ~3 years (hmmm, that's more expensive
than petrol, and would be costing about as much energy in the
manufacturing of the batteries in the first place).

I was really hoping for 5-10 years. I've already impressed myself with
the need to look after them carefully. Note to self - you can not leave
a lead acid battery on permanent standby {:-(.

I suspect it is a size issue; relative charging and discharging rates.

As to energy in petrol, yes, that is probably true, but I do not know of
a really QUIET way to convert that to forward motion. The best part
about touring is the quietness. It is one of the reasons I've never
commuted Sydney to Melbourne along the Hume Highway by bicycle {:-)

They now claim that some of the little quiet generators are just two
blokes having a converstion, but I don't want someone bashing my ear all
day, everyday {:-)

The whole project started as a way to generate/provide 60AmpHrs(@12Volt)
each day for a week (no mains access), whilst meeting the normal bicycle
touring mode of quietness.

Some links to follow, have fun.

[font=Times New Roman]wisechat.come bikes.htmOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]atob.org.ukElectric Buyers' Guide.htmlOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]ihpva.orgpowerassist.htmOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]groups.yahoo.compower assistOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]atob.org.ukquestionselectric.htmOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]electric-bikes.comelectric-bikes.comOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]electric-bikes.combenefits.htmOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]ihpva.orgelectrailer.htmOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]kinetics.org.ukkinetics.org.ukOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]estelle.defahrradmodelle.aspOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]currietech.com.aucurrietech.com.auOpen ↗[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]ata.org.auata.org.auOpen ↗[/font]

Skewer said:

Avanti bikes sells a front drive electrical assist bike that uses an in hub
servo-motor rather that a straight out electric drive.

There is no hand throttle.
The system senses that you're pedalling forward and applies an assist to the front wheel.
When you stop pedaling it stops applying an assist.

avanti.co.nzindex.phpOpen ↗

In practice you only notice that it is doing anything special when you apply the brake.
It sort of surges momentarily until then decides that you are braking at which point stops applying assist and switches to regenerative braking.
You have to manually switch to a regenerate mode if you want to charge the battery on long downhills.
Of course you also notice that you've arrived at your destination a lot sooner than normal ;-)

PeteB

I've got one of these bikes that I want to sell. I used it for an easy commute 7.5km each way, until I got transferred and faced a 25km each way commute. Sufficient battery to cover that distance made the bike unwieldy and charging at work was awkward. A lighter bike without battery is quicker over the 25km. Over the 7.5km including some hills I didn't need a shower before or after the ride.

Regarding the In Motion Technologies motor on the Avanti Electra bike, it is good for travelling at 17 - 30km/h. The controller seems to use the strategy of providing 200W output between 17 and 30km/h, reducing assist progressively from 200W at 30km/h to 0W at 40kmh/, and also reducing assist at lower speeds where the motor is less efficient. It doesn't start assisting until you reach 6km/h. I've had a current shunt and meter on my motor, so I've got a pretty good idea of how it controls the power (at least on my bike). It doesn't actually stop assist while braking, but it doesn't increase assist while the speed is quickly dropping. Your brakes can easily counter the 200W assist. Mine does not do regenerative braking, but you can manually select the REGEN mode when going down a hill.

The bike feels like you've got a tailwind.

Regarding the original requirement for assist at 4-10km/h, you'll almost certainly be looking at a motor with gears. The direct drive ones all seem to be optimised for normal riding speeds and are inefficient at such a slow speed.