Electric bicycle

Michael said:

Saw my first commercial, battery-powered bicycle yesterday. It entered the MUP
just as I was leaving. I didn't notice at first that it was electric because I
was busy taking in the rider's apparell: military "boonie" hat, sweatshirt,
long trousers, and beat-up, black leather dress shoes.

Just after I passed this thing I heard a whir-r-r and looked back. The guy
pulled over, dismounted, threw himself onto a bench, and fished a cigarette case
out of a pocket. So I went back for a look at the bike. That's when I saw the
motor mounted on the left side and the large plastic battery box nestled between
rear tire and seat tube.

I was told it's a WalMart or Sam's Club (I forget which) bike. One chain ring +
seven cogs, for pedaling. Supposedly goes 18 miles on a charge (he didn't
mention the speed), and batteries must be replaced after 100 charges. Sounds
kinda expensive to operate. Couldn't bring myself to ask what the bike itself
costs.

I was thinking about that last night as I went to sleep since it has
been 108-110 here in California the last few days, think skip spring and
go right into hot August days. Even the television news crews are
complaining about the sudden heat wave.
Here's my idea. Buy cheaper, lower tech solar panels and mount them
above the rider's head to provide shade from the mid day sun and route
the excess power into a small battery, NiMH, or Lithium, whatever. Use
that to power a front hub motor / generator and you could have a bike
with a few extra pounds and a boost. If you got too hot, easy on a 110
degree day as I have found out, you have your own shade and probably
enough electricity to get about 12-14 MPH from sun power alone. That
would probably only take about 50-100 watts and you can get that from
bright sunlight even with cheap panels. Make the panels and battery
quick disconnect and the front wheel changeable so you don't look too
much like a Fred on more normal days.
It would work for me since where I ride even the trees are miles apart.
Bill Baka

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:06:22 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Michael said:

Saw my first commercial, battery-powered bicycle yesterday. It entered the MUP
just as I was leaving. I didn't notice at first that it was electric because I
was busy taking in the rider's apparell: military "boonie" hat, sweatshirt,
long trousers, and beat-up, black leather dress shoes.

Just after I passed this thing I heard a whir-r-r and looked back. The guy
pulled over, dismounted, threw himself onto a bench, and fished a cigarette case
out of a pocket. So I went back for a look at the bike. That's when I saw the
motor mounted on the left side and the large plastic battery box nestled between
rear tire and seat tube.

I was told it's a WalMart or Sam's Club (I forget which) bike. One chain ring +
seven cogs, for pedaling. Supposedly goes 18 miles on a charge (he didn't
mention the speed), and batteries must be replaced after 100 charges. Sounds
kinda expensive to operate. Couldn't bring myself to ask what the bike itself
costs.

I was thinking about that last night as I went to sleep since it has
been 108-110 here in California the last few days, think skip spring and
go right into hot August days. Even the television news crews are
complaining about the sudden heat wave.
Here's my idea. Buy cheaper, lower tech solar panels and mount them
above the rider's head to provide shade from the mid day sun and route
the excess power into a small battery, NiMH, or Lithium, whatever. Use
that to power a front hub motor / generator and you could have a bike
with a few extra pounds and a boost. If you got too hot, easy on a 110
degree day as I have found out, you have your own shade and probably
enough electricity to get about 12-14 MPH from sun power alone. That
would probably only take about 50-100 watts and you can get that from
bright sunlight even with cheap panels. Make the panels and battery
quick disconnect and the front wheel changeable so you don't look too
much like a Fred on more normal days.
It would work for me since where I ride even the trees are miles apart.

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.
His concept includes an Xtra-Cycle with fold out panels. He tows
trailers of sound equipment with it and carries a spare battery or
two.

I can see a detachable photovoltaic sun shade too easily becoming a
sail or a kite, or at least a nuisance in most riding conditions.
Perhaps built into a fringed surrey type canopy on a vendors trike it
would be handy.

There was a factory folding electric on the last MC3 ride. It was
towing a trailer hauling sound stuff, pedal-powered generators and a
bigass battery when its battery died. They thought about somehow
connecting up something but Jim gutzt it out and got assistance up a
lump before arriving back at the studio/shop. Consensual conclusion:
You don't want to be forced to pedal it

I was parking my 40# joe-bike when some 250# fluffy challenged me to
a race. His cookie-cutter machine was styled more like a Vespa
scooter but it had pedal appendages. I accepted the challenge on one
condition; that the race be over twenty-five miles.
He declined.

Buzz bikes are better than the bolt on and DIY two-strokes I've been
seeing lately. I was disgusted to be passed (up-hill) by a shrieking
Giant branded stinker. They're not imported into Canada, AFAIK.
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.

I've seen a guy riding around on a bike with huge hubs (or at least,
front hub) that looks something like two metal garbage can lids stuck
together. The spokes must be all of 6" long. My next-door neighbour
was recently describing to me how he, with the flick of a switch, can
ascend the hump on 37th beside Little Mountain without pedaling, like
he's levitating or being raptured-up or something. I guess there's
something like clocksprings in those (that) hub(s).

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:12:43 -0700, [email hidden]

(Tom Keats) said:

Quoted message said:

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.

I've seen a guy riding around on a bike with huge hubs (or at least,
front hub) that looks something like two metal garbage can lids stuck
together. The spokes must be all of 6" long. My next-door neighbour
was recently describing to me how he, with the flick of a switch, can
ascend the hump on 37th beside Little Mountain without pedaling, like
he's levitating or being raptured-up or something. I guess there's
something like clocksprings in those (that) hub(s).

Andy uses a hub motor that is rather large. He did have one that
incorporated circuitry for turning the motor into a generator. He
says the meter shows the battery charging but the amperage is
insufficient to contribute to the braking or battery charging in any
meaningful way. He says it looks good until you do the math.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:06:22 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Michael said:

Saw my first commercial, battery-powered bicycle yesterday. It entered the MUP
just as I was leaving. I didn't notice at first that it was electric because I
was busy taking in the rider's apparell: military "boonie" hat, sweatshirt,
long trousers, and beat-up, black leather dress shoes.

Just after I passed this thing I heard a whir-r-r and looked back. The guy
pulled over, dismounted, threw himself onto a bench, and fished a cigarette case
out of a pocket. So I went back for a look at the bike. That's when I saw the
motor mounted on the left side and the large plastic battery box nestled between
rear tire and seat tube.

I was told it's a WalMart or Sam's Club (I forget which) bike. One chain ring +
seven cogs, for pedaling. Supposedly goes 18 miles on a charge (he didn't
mention the speed), and batteries must be replaced after 100 charges. Sounds
kinda expensive to operate. Couldn't bring myself to ask what the bike itself
costs.

I was thinking about that last night as I went to sleep since it has
been 108-110 here in California the last few days, think skip spring and
go right into hot August days. Even the television news crews are
complaining about the sudden heat wave.
Here's my idea. Buy cheaper, lower tech solar panels and mount them
above the rider's head to provide shade from the mid day sun and route
the excess power into a small battery, NiMH, or Lithium, whatever. Use
that to power a front hub motor / generator and you could have a bike
with a few extra pounds and a boost. If you got too hot, easy on a 110
degree day as I have found out, you have your own shade and probably
enough electricity to get about 12-14 MPH from sun power alone. That
would probably only take about 50-100 watts and you can get that from
bright sunlight even with cheap panels. Make the panels and battery
quick disconnect and the front wheel changeable so you don't look too
much like a Fred on more normal days.
It would work for me since where I ride even the trees are miles apart.

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.
His concept includes an Xtra-Cycle with fold out panels. He tows
trailers of sound equipment with it and carries a spare battery or
two.

I can see a detachable photovoltaic sun shade too easily becoming a
sail or a kite, or at least a nuisance in most riding conditions.
Perhaps built into a fringed surrey type canopy on a vendors trike it
would be handy.

I was thinking of mounting them perfectly horizontal above the rider's
head so that they would be wind indifferent, except for maybe that semi
coming by at 80 MPH causing an updraft. That could be too interesting.

Quoted message said:

There was a factory folding electric on the last MC3 ride. It was
towing a trailer hauling sound stuff, pedal-powered generators and a
bigass battery when its battery died. They thought about somehow
connecting up something but Jim gutzt it out and got assistance up a
lump before arriving back at the studio/shop. Consensual conclusion:
You don't want to be forced to pedal it

Reminds me of the old (1950's) Mopeds that you couldn't pedal to save
your life. It seems the pedals were there to get around some law about
motorcycles and these qualified as motor assisted bicycles.

Quoted message said:

I was parking my 40# joe-bike when some 250# fluffy challenged me to
a race. His cookie-cutter machine was styled more like a Vespa
scooter but it had pedal appendages. I accepted the challenge on one
condition; that the race be over twenty-five miles.
He declined.

Buzz bikes are better than the bolt on and DIY two-strokes I've been
seeing lately. I was disgusted to be passed (up-hill) by a shrieking
Giant branded stinker. They're not imported into Canada, AFAIK.

What I was thinking of would add about 30-40 pounds to the bike which is
no big deal on the flats. My own weight goes up and down that much
depending on the season an how many miles I ride. My main MTB weighs
about 45 pounds and my road bike around 30. I would probably do this to
my MTB and not mess with a perfectly good road bike.
Bill Baka

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.

I've seen a guy riding around on a bike with huge hubs (or at least,
front hub) that looks something like two metal garbage can lids stuck
together. The spokes must be all of 6" long. My next-door neighbour
was recently describing to me how he, with the flick of a switch, can
ascend the hump on 37th beside Little Mountain without pedaling, like
he's levitating or being raptured-up or something. I guess there's
something like clocksprings in those (that) hub(s).

cheers,
Tom

See if you can find out who makes the hub. I am a hopeless tinkerer and
can always use something more to mess with, as long as I don't have to
spend a kilobuck on a wheel motor.
Bill Baka

Zoot Katz said:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:12:43 -0700, [email hidden]

(Tom Keats) said:

Quoted message said:

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.

I've seen a guy riding around on a bike with huge hubs (or at least,
front hub) that looks something like two metal garbage can lids stuck
together. The spokes must be all of 6" long. My next-door neighbour
was recently describing to me how he, with the flick of a switch, can
ascend the hump on 37th beside Little Mountain without pedaling, like
he's levitating or being raptured-up or something. I guess there's
something like clocksprings in those (that) hub(s).

Andy uses a hub motor that is rather large. He did have one that
incorporated circuitry for turning the motor into a generator. He
says the meter shows the battery charging but the amperage is
insufficient to contribute to the braking or battery charging in any
meaningful way. He says it looks good until you do the math.

Again, who makes the darn thing? I need some new toys. I can get cheap
solar cells and maybe rig a small battery (motorcycle?) and see what I
can cobble up. Remember I have 3 MTBs so I can kill one, probably the
now mostly retired Huffy.
Bill Baka

Bill said:

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about that last night as I went to sleep since it has
been 108-110 here in California the last few days, think skip spring and
go right into hot August days. Even the television news crews are
complaining about the sudden heat wave.
Here's my idea. Buy cheaper, lower tech solar panels and mount them
above the rider's head to provide shade from the mid day sun and route
the excess power into a small battery, NiMH, or Lithium, whatever. Use
that to power a front hub motor / generator and you could have a bike
with a few extra pounds and a boost. If you got too hot, easy on a 110
degree day as I have found out, you have your own shade and probably
enough electricity to get about 12-14 MPH from sun power alone. That
would probably only take about 50-100 watts and you can get that from
bright sunlight even with cheap panels. Make the panels and battery
quick disconnect and the front wheel changeable so you don't look too
much like a Fred on more normal days.
It would work for me since where I ride even the trees are miles apart.
Bill Baka

If you look at the advertised performance figures for existing electric
bikes, you'll see that their engines' power output in watts and their
achievable speed is far worse than for human engines on bike. So while
100 watts will get you 12-14 mph on a bicycle on the flat, it'll take
much more for the same speed with an electric bike.

Wayne

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw my first commercial, battery-powered bicycle yesterday. It entered
the MUP
just as I was leaving. I didn't notice at first that it was electric
because I
was busy taking in the rider's apparell: military "boonie" hat,
sweatshirt,
long trousers, and beat-up, black leather dress shoes.

Just after I passed this thing I heard a whir-r-r and looked back. The
guy
pulled over, dismounted, threw himself onto a bench, and fished a
cigarette case
out of a pocket. So I went back for a look at the bike. That's when I
saw the
motor mounted on the left side and the large plastic battery box nestled
between
rear tire and seat tube.

I was told it's a WalMart or Sam's Club (I forget which) bike. One chain
ring +
seven cogs, for pedaling. Supposedly goes 18 miles on a charge (he didn't
mention the speed), and batteries must be replaced after 100 charges.
Sounds
kinda expensive to operate. Couldn't bring myself to ask what the bike
itself
costs.

--
Michael

I see a Monague folding MTB with an electric motor locked to a rack at the
mall all the time. It looks like it wasn't exactly cheap. It appears to have
two motors, one mounted in each wheel. It looks ungainly and heavy.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:12:43 -0700, [email hidden]

(Tom Keats) said:

Quoted message said:

One of my buds has been buzz-biking for about 16 mos. He's also an
inventor of sorts and concluded that even in this often overcast
climate and short-day latitude, solar charging is more efficient than
regenerative braking.

I've seen a guy riding around on a bike with huge hubs (or at least,
front hub) that looks something like two metal garbage can lids stuck
together. The spokes must be all of 6" long. My next-door neighbour
was recently describing to me how he, with the flick of a switch, can
ascend the hump on 37th beside Little Mountain without pedaling, like
he's levitating or being raptured-up or something. I guess there's
something like clocksprings in those (that) hub(s).

Andy uses a hub motor that is rather large. He did have one that
incorporated circuitry for turning the motor into a generator. He
says the meter shows the battery charging but the amperage is
insufficient to contribute to the braking or battery charging in any
meaningful way. He says it looks good until you do the math.

Aw, shucks. I was hoping it was something mechanical, like
something Leonardo, or one of Edison's undercredited staff
would have come up with.

Oh well.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Wayne Pein said:

Bill said:

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about that last night as I went to sleep since it has
been 108-110 here in California the last few days, think skip spring
and go right into hot August days. Even the television news crews are
complaining about the sudden heat wave.
Here's my idea. Buy cheaper, lower tech solar panels and mount them
above the rider's head to provide shade from the mid day sun and route
the excess power into a small battery, NiMH, or Lithium, whatever. Use
that to power a front hub motor / generator and you could have a bike
with a few extra pounds and a boost. If you got too hot, easy on a 110
degree day as I have found out, you have your own shade and probably
enough electricity to get about 12-14 MPH from sun power alone. That
would probably only take about 50-100 watts and you can get that from
bright sunlight even with cheap panels. Make the panels and battery
quick disconnect and the front wheel changeable so you don't look too
much like a Fred on more normal days.
It would work for me since where I ride even the trees are miles apart.
Bill Baka

If you look at the advertised performance figures for existing electric
bikes, you'll see that their engines' power output in watts and their
achievable speed is far worse than for human engines on bike. So while
100 watts will get you 12-14 mph on a bicycle on the flat, it'll take
much more for the same speed with an electric bike.

Wayne

That probably means someone should get busy and design an efficient hub
motor / generator. It does seem like it could be done if it wasn't just
another *-mart sucker bike.
Bill Baka

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:34:34 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Again, who makes the darn thing? I need some new toys.

Lots of suppliers

http://bicycle-power.com/electric.html
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Quoted message said:

If you look at the advertised performance figures for existing electric
bikes, you'll see that their engines' power output in watts and their
achievable speed is far worse than for human engines on bike. So while
100 watts will get you 12-14 mph on a bicycle on the flat, it'll take
much more for the same speed with an electric bike.

Wayne

That probably means someone should get busy and design an efficient hub
motor / generator.

I take it as simply meaning that we shouldn't underrate the capabilities
of a rider on a normal, uncomplicated, human-powered bicycle.

The whole beauty of bicycles lies in their efficient simplicity.

If you want to "improve" bicycles, the trick is to make them
even simpler, not more complicated.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Quoted message said:

If you look at the advertised performance figures for existing electric
bikes, you'll see that their engines' power output in watts and their
achievable speed is far worse than for human engines on bike. So while
100 watts will get you 12-14 mph on a bicycle on the flat, it'll take
much more for the same speed with an electric bike.

Wayne

That probably means someone should get busy and design an efficient hub
motor / generator.

I take it as simply meaning that we shouldn't underrate the capabilities
of a rider on a normal, uncomplicated, human-powered bicycle.

The whole beauty of bicycles lies in their efficient simplicity.

If you want to "improve" bicycles, the trick is to make them
even simpler, not more complicated.

cheers,
Tom

Agreed, in principle, but a simple motorized hub with no gears to change
should be able to approach 95% efficiency. Remember, I'm the electronics
engineer who messes with this stuff. Rare earth magnets (neodymium, etc)
hold a heck of a lot of magnetism and work fine in brushless DC motors.
Expensive maybe, but efficient.
Maybe next year.
Bill Baka

Bill said:

Again, who makes the darn thing?

Try this

http://www.wildernessenergy.com/unibikekit.html

Quoted message said:

Bill said:

Again, who makes the darn thing?

Try this

http://www.wildernessenergy.com/unibikekit.html

I'd rather have a Stokemonkey personally.

http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
.... TheysaidDoyouseethebiggreenglowinthedarkhouseuponthehill?andIsaidYesIsee
thebiggreenglowinthedarkhouseuponthehillTheresabigdarkforestbetweenmeandthe
biggreenglowinthedarkhouseuponthehillandalittleoldladyridingonaHoovervacuum
cleanersayingIllgetyoumyprettyandyourlittledogTototoo ...

I don't even *HAVE* a dog Toto...

Dane Buson said:

I'd rather have a Stokemonkey personally.

http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

Interesting!

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:19:15 -0700, Dane Buson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.wildernessenergy.com/unibikekit.html

I'd rather have a Stokemonkey personally.

http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

.. . . yeah.

A necessary accessory for an Xtra Cycle hauling batteries.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:19:15 -0700, Dane Buson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'd rather have a Stokemonkey personally.

http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

. . . yeah.

A necessary accessory for an Xtra Cycle hauling batteries.

Now, now, it's not something for thee or me. But if it makes people
consider using their bike for more things, I'm all for it.

I just picked my new Xtracycle up Friday. It's ugly as sin (I purposely
used a frame that had been poorly rattle-canned yellow (not by me)), but
I'm very happy with my component selection. I'm still fiddling with my
setup, not that that's so important for a cargo bike. I have a 48 spoke
rear wheel with the 8" disc brake setup. I went with friction shifting
for the front triple.

I doubt I'll ever get the Stokemonkey, but it's an interesting addition.
Keep in mind it's an adjunct to your pedaling. It's not possible to
stop pedaling and get any power out of the Stokemonkey.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the cheapest way of
selling goods, particularly if the goods are worthless." -Sinclair Lewis