Effect of raising saddle?

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:36:10 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

The LBS claims I should get more power on the stroke and
maybe less fatigue while riding (that would be great!).
Some older fellow said something similar as he dropped me
on the road trying to catch up to his wife on her
recumbent.

Proper leg extension is one of those things that really
makes a difference. at the bottom of the pedal stroke, there
should only be a very slight bend in your knee--it should be
extended, but not overextended.

On a road bike, the saddle will probably be high enough off
the ground to preclude being able to put your feet down on
the ground while sitting on it.

Try raising the saddle: you'll like it. I recently raised
the saddle on my little brother's superheavy Huffy, and the
grin on his face when he could actually *move* the bike down
the road at a decent clip was proof enough of the efficiency
and effectiveness of good position.

-Luigi

Roger Zoul said:

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike

;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

Quoted message said:

-- I think she was afraid for me at first so played it
safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it
close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a
professional fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a
mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the
trainer and has me start riding. By then end of 30
minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5
inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Riding a saddle that's too low is like doing a Groucho Marx
duck walk all day long. It puts lots of unnecessary strain
on your knees.

You mention doing leg presses. You should be able to verify
the idea with that machine, if it's got enough adjustment.
See how much you can raise with your leg nearly extended,
versus how little you can raise with your knees deeply bent.

One way of setting saddle height is to lean against a wall
to support yourself, unclip, put your _heels_ on the pedals,
and backpedal. Your seat should be high enough so you can
barely contact the pedals at their lowest point. (Hip
rocking to "stretch" is not allowed.)

If you set your seat height this way, then when you clip in
properly, you'll have about the right bend (i.e. pretty
slight) in your knees.

Of course, nothing's perfect. This works pretty well if your
body - especially shoe size - is all "normal." Feel free to
make slight adjustements to fine tune things.

With the seat high enough, you'll ride _much_ stronger.

(With the seat too high, your hips might rock and cause
saddle problems, or you may get pain in the back of the knee
from over-extending.)

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Wow....went to the LBS today to pick up my bike with the
rebuilt rear wheel (28 spokes, 240 lbs rider). Don't know
yet if they did a good job or not --- TBD.

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike -- I
think she was afraid for me at first so played it safe), I
thought to ask for some assistance on getting it close
(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of
the two people there who does the fittings) decides to
help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has me
start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has
raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

Your knees, quads and lungs will probably thank you!

....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

In article <[email hidden]>,
luigi12081 @cox.net says...

...

Quoted message said:

Try raising the saddle: you'll like it. I recently raised
the saddle on my little brother's superheavy Huffy, and
the grin on his face when he could actually *move* the
bike down the road at a decent clip was proof enough of
the efficiency and effectiveness of good position.

My daughter had the same response when I raised hers. Of
course, that was three months ago, and now it's too low
again <Grin>.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

The LBS claims I should get more power on the stroke and
maybe less fatigue while riding (that would be great!).
Some older fellow said something similar as he dropped me
on the road trying to catch up to his wife on her
recumbent.

Is there a source on-line that gives guidelines for all the
"fitting" issues?

Handle bar height, distance from saddle front to goose
neck, etc.?

TIA,

B

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
saddle (including

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cute lady who sold me my bike

;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

Quoted message said:

-- I think she was afraid for me at first so played
it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on
getting it

close

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
fitting).

Anyway,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two people
there who does the fittings) decides to help me
out...puts the bike on the trainer and has

me

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has
raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Riding a saddle that's too low is like doing a Groucho
Marx duck walk all day long. It puts lots of unnecessary
strain on your knees.

You mention doing leg presses. You should be able to
verify the idea with that machine, if it's got enough
adjustment. See how much you can raise with your leg
nearly extended, versus how little you can raise with your
knees deeply bent.

One way of setting saddle height is to lean against a wall
to support yourself, unclip, put your _heels_ on the
pedals, and backpedal. Your seat should be high enough so
you can barely contact the pedals at their lowest point.
(Hip rocking to "stretch" is not allowed.)

If you set your seat height this way, then when you clip
in properly, you'll have about the right bend (i.e. pretty
slight) in your knees.

Of course, nothing's perfect. This works pretty well if
your body - especially shoe size - is all "normal." Feel
free to make slight adjustements to fine tune things.

With the seat high enough, you'll ride _much_ stronger.

(With the seat too high, your hips might rock and cause
saddle problems, or you may get pain in the back of the
knee from over-extending.)

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

The website for Colorado Cyclist has a fitting section
that's quite comprehensive and that's based on most of the
latest thinking on proper bike fit. Go to
www.coloradocyclist.com

Bob C.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Wow....went to the LBS today to pick up my bike with the
rebuilt rear wheel (28 spokes, 240 lbs rider). Don't know
yet if they did a good job or not --- TBD.

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike -- I
think she was afraid for me at first so played it safe), I
thought to ask for some assistance on getting it close
(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of
the two people there who does the fittings) decides to
help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has me
start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has
raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

Roger, they should have done the proffesional fitting,
BEFORE selling you the bike, not after. Here is a link to
Sheldon's info for Beginning Cyclists, it is informative in
many areas, take a look -
sheldonbrown.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

Did you ever receive my email, about the wheelbuilder in
your part of the country? For you, and anyone else, when
someone on these forums, takes the time to send you an
email, it would be helpful to least send a brief reply,
"Thanks for the info". That way we'll know that you got it.
And while I'm on the subject, and this has nothing to do
with Roger, if you email someone asking for info, on say
handlebars or whatever, and they take the time to reply.
Send them a quick note of thanks. And now, let's return to
our previously scheduled topic;-)

Life is Good! Jeff

Jeff Starr wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:<[email hidden]>...
::: Wow....went to the LBS today to pick up my bike with the
::: rebuilt rear wheel (28 spokes, 240 lbs rider). Don't
::: know yet if they did a good job or not --- TBD.
:::
::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
::: saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike -- I
::: think she was afraid for me at first so played it safe),
::: I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it close
::: (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
::: fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of
::: the two people there who does the fittings) decides to
::: help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has me
::: start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has
::: raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
:::
:::
:: Roger, they should have done the proffesional fitting,
:: BEFORE selling you the bike, not after.

Well, they did not. the sales lady did what she could.

:: Here is a link to Sheldon's info for Beginning Cyclists,
:: it is informative in many areas, take a look -
:: sheldonbrown.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

I was just reading that...

::
:: Did you ever receive my email, about the wheelbuilder in
:: your part of the country?

Yes...and I thought I wrote you back asking a question! (I
use two computers -- one at home and one at work -- I don't
see the reply here.) He is about 85 miles from where i work,
so I'm going to go pick them up. i'll probably ask him about
rebuilding my present wheel, too, since I'm not sure if I
trust the LBS.

But, I have purchased a wheelset from the wheelbuilder you
pointed me to. I don't have them yet, though.

:: For you, and anyone else, when someone on these forums,
:: takes the time to send you an email, it would be helpful
:: to least send a brief reply, "Thanks for the info". That
:: way we'll know that you got it. And while I'm on the
:: subject, and this has nothing to do with Roger, if you
:: email someone asking for info, on say handlebars or
:: whatever, and they take the time to reply. Send them a
:: quick note of thanks. And now, let's return to our
:: previously scheduled topic;-)

Thanks!

::
:: Life is Good! Jeff

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
::: saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike
::
:: ;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

I think she's smart, too.

::
::
::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so played it
::: safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting
::: it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a
::: professional fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a
::: mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
::: fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the
::: trainer and has me start riding. By then end of 30
::: minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5
::: inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
::
:: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say
it is a positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and
my hands were getting numb. Only after 13 miles. Of
course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect
some adjustment time...

::
:: Riding a saddle that's too low is like doing a Groucho
:: Marx duck walk all day long. It puts lots of unnecessary
:: strain on your knees.
::
:: You mention doing leg presses. You should be able to
:: verify the idea with that machine, if it's got enough
:: adjustment. See how much you can raise with your leg
:: nearly extended, versus how little you can raise with
:: your knees deeply bent.

Right..

::
:: One way of setting saddle height is to lean against a
:: wall to support yourself, unclip, put your _heels_ on the
:: pedals, and backpedal. Your seat should be high enough so
:: you can barely contact the pedals at their lowest point.
:: (Hip rocking to "stretch" is not allowed.)

I'll keep that in mind. I may end up getting a trainer
this winter.

::
:: If you set your seat height this way, then when you clip
:: in properly, you'll have about the right bend (i.e.
:: pretty slight) in your knees.
::
:: Of course, nothing's perfect. This works pretty well if
:: your body - especially shoe size - is all "normal." Feel
:: free to make slight adjustements to fine tune things.
::

Yeah, after a few more rides....I may just shell out
another $100 to get the fit optimized...I might need a
longer stem, too.

:: With the seat high enough, you'll ride _much_ stronger.

I didn't feel any stronger. But pedalling itself does feel
more natural. Getting on and off the bike is more
complicated...and things are trickier at
intersections...[censored]! I'm going to do more frequent but
shorter rides over the next week to try to speed the
adjustment. I've reread sheldon browns' comments on
mounting/dismounting the bike. His dismount info seems a
little vague...and mounting is trickier with the clipless
pedals...damn! I feel like I'm back to square one... A
rank noob....

::
:: (With the seat too high, your hips might rock and cause
:: saddle problems, or you may get pain in the back of the
:: knee from over-extending.)
::

Hmm....I could not detect hips rocking on this bike this
morning nor in the LBS yesterday....and looking for it is
part of the reason I let them help me rather than trying to
do it myself

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
::: saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike
::
:: ;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

I think she's smart, too.

::
::
::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so played
::: it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on
::: getting it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100
::: for a professional fitting). Anyway, one of the guys
::: (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does
::: the fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike
::: on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end
::: of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight
::: by 2.5 inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will
::: make?
::
:: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can
say it is a positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but
where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my
hands were getting numb. Only

Not surprising, since your handlebars are now effectively
2.5 inches lower. Just raise them up to within an inch or so
of the seat height. If there's not enough adjustment range
for that, you can get a headset extender for about $20 which
will give you plenty of adjustment.

....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

Roger Zoul said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Quoted message said:

2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can
say it is a positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and
my hands were getting numb. Only after 13 miles. Of
course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect
some adjustment time...

Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an appreciable
amount, so you may have to play around with position a bit
at this new (better) height.

Bill "tweaker" S.

S o r n i wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can
::: say it is a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
::: but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort,
::: and my hands were getting numb. Only after 13 miles. Of
::: course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
::: saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect
::: some adjustment time...
::
:: Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an
:: appreciable amount, so you may have to play around with
:: position a bit at this new (better) height.

Oh, good stuff. So I slight move backward might be in order?

::
:: Bill "tweaker" S.

David Kerber wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: [email hidden] says...
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::
:::::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my
:::::: saddle (including the cute lady who sold me my bike
:::::
::::: ;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.
:::
::: I think she's smart, too.
:::
:::::
:::::
:::::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so played
:::::: it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on
:::::: getting it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100
:::::: for a professional fitting). Anyway, one of the guys
:::::: (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does
:::::: the fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike
:::::: on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end
:::::: of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight
:::::: by 2.5 inches!!
::::::
:::::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will
:::::: make?
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can
::: say it is a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
::: but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort,
::: and my hands were getting numb. Only
::
:: Not surprising, since your handlebars are now effectively
:: 2.5 inches lower. Just raise them up to within an inch or
:: so of the seat height. If there's not enough adjustment
:: range for that, you can get a headset extender for about
:: $20 which will give you plenty of adjustment.

Yeah, the only adjustment is basically up and back at the
same time. So there's likely to be some adjustment and/or
swapping out needed.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

S o r n i wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I
::: can say it is a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
::: but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort,
::: and my hands were getting numb. Only after 13 miles.
::: Of course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
::: saddle in the other position, so I think I should
::: expect some adjustment time...
::
:: Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an
:: appreciable amount, so you may have to play around with
:: position a bit at this new (better) height.

Oh, good stuff. So I slight move backward might be
in order?

Forward, actually, though (referencing the other message),
if you can raise your handlebars by the same amount, then
your reach should be very close to what it was before you
raised the seat, and you shouldn't need a new stem. If your
seat tube angle and head tube angle are the same, then the
bars and the seat will stay the same distance apart if you
raise them both the same amount.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

Roger Zoul said:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so played it
::: safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting
::: it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a
::: professional fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a
::: mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
::: fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on
::: the trainer and has me start riding. By then end of 30
::: minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5
::: inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
::
:: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can
say it is a positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and
my hands were getting numb. Only after 13 miles. Of
course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect
some adjustment time...

If the only thing done was to raise your seat 2.5" I'm not
surprised at the new symptoms, because it also means your
handlebars are now 2.5" lower than they used to be with
respect to the saddle height. This may cause you to put
more weight on your hands, causing the numbness, and to
lean further forward on your saddle, causing more pressure
on the softer bits. You could probably adjust to the new
bar position if you give it time but I don't see much point
in that. Most people seem maximally comfortable with the
top of the bars at, or just below, the level of the top of
the saddle.

That they let you out the door with the saddle 2.5" too low
in the first place hints that they may also have let you out
the door with a bike frame that was too small for you,
something bike shops seem to love to do for some reason. If
so you can no doubt live with this (lots of people seem to)
if they can get your bars up to where they should be, but
you might keep this in mind when you buy your next bike...

Dennis Ferguson

David Kerber wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: [email hidden] says...
::: S o r n i wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
::::::::
:::::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
::::::
:::::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I
:::::: can say it is a positive one, yet.
::::::
:::::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the
:::::: legs, but where I sit on the saddle had greater
:::::: discomfort, and my hands were getting numb. Only
:::::: after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on
:::::: my bike with the saddle in the other position, so I
:::::: think I should expect some adjustment time...
:::::
::::: Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an
::::: appreciable amount, so you may have to play around
::::: with position a bit at this new (better) height.
:::
::: Oh, good stuff. So I slight move backward might be in
::: order?
::
:: Forward, actually, though (referencing the other
:: message),

Stupid me....

if you can
:: raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your reach
:: should be very close to what it was before you raised the
:: seat, and you shouldn't need a new stem. If your seat
:: tube angle and head tube angle are the same, then the
:: bars and the seat will stay the same distance apart if
:: you raise them both the same amount.

I probably should have had them both done at the same
time...I'll probably end up being uncomfortable on the bike
and end up paying for the pro fitting.

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
:: Roger Zoul <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so played
:::::: it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on
:::::: getting it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100
:::::: for a professional fitting). Anyway, one of the guys
:::::: (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does
:::::: the fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike
:::::: on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end
:::::: of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight
:::::: by 2.5 inches!!
::::::
:::::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will
:::::: make?
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can
::: say it is a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs,
::: but where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort,
::: and my hands were getting numb. Only after 13 miles. Of
::: course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
::: saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect
::: some adjustment time...
::
:: If the only thing done was to raise your seat 2.5" I'm
:: not surprised at the new symptoms, because it also means
:: your handlebars are now
:: 2.5" lower than they used to be with respect to the
:: saddle height. This may cause you to put more weight on
:: your hands, causing the numbness, and to lean further
:: forward on your saddle, causing more pressure on the
:: softer bits. You could probably adjust to the new bar
:: position if you give it time but I don't see much point
:: in that. Most people seem maximally comfortable with
:: the top of the bars at, or just below, the level of the
:: top of the saddle.

the guy did mention, to his credit, that the handle bars
needed adjusting too. The plan was for me to ride for a few
days and come back for adjustments. I likely should have
mentioned that. I'm going to ride a bit more and perhaps go
back on the weekend.

::
:: That they let you out the door with the saddle 2.5" too
:: low in the first place hints that they may also have let
:: you out the door with a bike frame that was too small for
:: you, something bike shops seem to love to do for some
:: reason.

Honestly, I think I imparted a "fear factor" into the sales
lady...she's told me over and over, and even on the day I
got the bike that she thought the seat was too low. I
honestly think that perhaps I made her feel that having the
seat at the proper height was something I did not want. I'm
a big guy, a newbie to biking, and she is just a 110-lb lady
(who is a real pleasure to buy a bike from).

I'm thinking the frame is okay, but how can I be sure? Well,
it doesn't really matter now....

If so you can no doubt live with this (lots
:: of people seem to) if they can get your bars up to where
:: they should be, but you might keep this in mind when you
:: buy your next bike...

Right.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:23:28 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

:: Forward, actually, though (referencing the other
:: message),

Stupid me....

if you can
:: raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your
:: reach should be very close to what it was before you
:: raised the seat, and you shouldn't need a new stem. If
:: your seat tube angle and head tube angle are the same,
:: then the bars and the seat will stay the same distance
:: apart if you raise them both the same amount.

I probably should have had them both done at the same
time...I'll probably end up being uncomfortable on the bike
and end up paying for the pro fitting.

IMO, they're f-ing with ya Roger. If you bought a road bike
worth at least 1000 bucks, the fitting should be part of it,
and you shouldn't have to pay. In fact, I'll go so far as to
say that a bike marked $1200 you should be able to dicker
down to ~1000, and the fitting and free adjustments for life
is the norm. They should be courting -your- good favor, b/c
they know that you'll be spending another 500 or so in the
next year at their store.

I'd go back and talk to the owner, tell him you planned to
drop some fair bill in his store, but you feel you're being
screwed around with, and not being given the basic normal
treatment that most bike shops give even customers that
spend half that much. If he doesn't come through, I'd hint
that you might decide to talk to the Better Business bureau,
or at least take your business elsewhere. It's a simple
matter of economics, IMO. Give you what you're due and get
500 more in sales in the next 12 months and good word-of-
mouth in the bike community. Let him know you're well-
connected with the biking community and ask him (nicely) if
that doesn't mean something. Do all your talking nicely and
logically, present your case and mention that you had to -ask-
for a borrowed wheel, when normally, to a good customer, the
shop should have realized 'hey he's a hard core $$$ rider,
let's -offer- a wheel', yadda, yadda.

Good luck, buddy! ;-)

-Badger

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:23:28 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::::: Forward, actually, though (referencing the other
::::: message),
:::
::: Stupid me....
:::
::: if you can
::::: raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your
::::: reach should be very close to what it was before you
::::: raised the seat, and you shouldn't need a new stem. If
::::: your seat tube angle and head tube angle are the same,
::::: then the bars and the seat will stay the same distance
::::: apart if you raise them both the same amount.
:::
::: I probably should have had them both done at the same
::: time...I'll probably end up being uncomfortable on the
::: bike and end up paying for the pro fitting.
::
:: IMO, they're f-ing with ya Roger. If you bought a road
:: bike worth at least 1000 bucks, the fitting should be
:: part of it, and you shouldn't have to pay. In fact, I'll
:: go so far as to say that a bike marked $1200 you should
:: be able to dicker down to ~1000, and the fitting and free
:: adjustments for life is the norm. They should be courting
:: -your- good favor, b/c they know that you'll be spending
:: another 500 or so in the next year at their store.

I dropped over 2 grand in that store when I got the bike.
I've spent more since then, too. They lady who sold me my
bike has given me some attention, however, like when I went
clipless, she spent time getting them adjusted. They charged
me for the fixing the first spoke, the second one was free,
as was the rebuild.

::
:: I'd go back and talk to the owner, tell him you planned
:: to drop some fair bill in his store, but you feel you're
:: being screwed around with, and not being given the basic
:: normal treatment that most bike shops give even customers
:: that spend half that much. If he doesn't come through,
:: I'd hint that you might decide to talk to the Better
:: Business bureau, or at least take your business
:: elsewhere. It's a simple matter of economics, IMO. Give
:: you what you're due and get 500 more in sales in the next
:: 12 months and good word-of-mouth in the bike community.
:: Let him know you're well-connected with the biking
:: community and ask him (nicely) if that doesn't mean
:: something. Do all your talking nicely and logically,
:: present your case and mention that you had to -ask- for a
:: borrowed wheel, when normally, to a good customer, the
:: shop should have realized 'hey he's a hard core $$$
:: rider, let's -offer- a wheel', yadda, yadda.

Yeah, I'd heard others here say that the fitting should be
free, so my patience wears thin. I really thinking I need to
get free of them, since they apparently see me as a payday.

::
:: Good luck, buddy! ;-)
::
:: -Badger