Effect of 1cm frame size difference

"Artoi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size
for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal
top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube
traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube
length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be
able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web
site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests
that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

Thanks for any comments.
--

I can really apply my own experience generally to your situation.
This is all within my experience, but it's hypothetical for you.

If you use the same stem length, you will be reaching out another
centimeter. If you are real flexible, it might not matter. If you
are near your flexibility limits, it might not be immediately
comfortable.

The head tube will be a bit longer, raising the 'bars. Can't say if
this will be an issue, you'll just have to see if it can be made to
work.

Your torso angle will be a bit lower, so either your back will curl a
bit or your pelvis will rotate forward. Pelvis rotation can lead to
numbness or at least a desire to readjust or replace your saddle.

But you also might not know how stretched out you can be, and this
extra cm might just get you into your sweet spot!

If you have an angled top tube, I'd assume your standover clearance
will not be affected, at least not to a dangerous degree. I find I do
not need complete clearance.

Ken Freeman

if the current seat is all the way back and the top of the thighs
contact the seat during seated climbing when pushing down then you
need more length either from a new style seat or more tube length. the
"correct" tube length (keeping it "simple"😉 should place the sweet
seat spot in more or less the middle of the seat posts back and forth
adjustment.
1 cm? kinda minor but i guess its possible to figure a faster handling
frame system from minor length stretches but i kinda doubt it/

Artoi said:

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

Is the seat tube angle the same? One degree in seat tube angle has
roughly the same effect as one centimeter in top tube length, because
you move the saddle accordingly to place it in the same location
relative to the bottom bracket.

If the angle is the same, you generally want to use a stem that is 1 cm
shorter. Having a 1 cm longer top tube and an equally shorter stem puts
a bit more weight on the rear wheel, but the difference is marginal.

-as

Artoi said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

Thanks for any comments.
--

The absolute measurments of the frame make little difference. When
sizing a frame you should aim for having things like your seat and bar
positions be in the middle of the adjustability range. This gives you
the option of adjusting things both ways.

So if for example you were already using the shortest stem you could
find, getting a bike with a longer top tube probably wouldn't be such
a good idea. One of the most important fitting issues in my opinion is
stack height. How high (or low) can you get the bars relative to the
seat, and relative to what you want. Often it seems people have frames
that force their bars to be too low. I'd take that into consideration.

Joseph

"Artoi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

Thanks for any comments.
--

There's some good points in the other messages. Beware of "frame fit
nazis" dictating the only one true way to fit a bike. There are many more
issues than your overall height.

A lot depends on your riding style. If you're a competitive cyclist and
ride in the drops a lot make sure that the frame, stem and bars will meet
your needs.

In another response, Joseph suggests getting a frame that allows the seat
and bars to be in the middle of the adjustment range.

One of the most important issues for me is the standover height of the top
tube. If you have to dismount in a hurry you should have enough room so
that your private parts don't come into painful contact with the toptube.

Except for riders requiring bikes in 49cm- 52cm sizes most riders can
tolerate at least a 20mm difference in frame height as long as the
standover height is adequate.

There has been a tendency for competitive cyclists to ride frames at the
smaller end of their size range and have the seats elevated for best
aerodynamics.

Buying my first Bike Boom era 10 speed went something like this: "I like
that orange one over there." "Stand over it to see if your feet reach the
ground."

Some bikes only came in 21", 23" and 25" frame sizes. My first 2 bikes had
60cm (23 1/2"😉 frames then I got a 57cm (22 1/2"😉 frame that was a much
better fit. When I started racing I switched to a 54cm frame.

Today I ride 55cm to 57cm frames. I have a long torso. My arms, legs and
neck are short relative to my to my torso plus I tend to ride in a more
upright position. I wear glasses and when I'm in the drops I end up
looking over the tops of them when my head is down so I tend not to ride
that way very much. I use shorter stems and short reach bars and have my
seat forward.

Chas.

Here is a link to lemond bikes geometry chart. Other pro bikes has similar
geometires. for instance going from certain ranges of frame size might
affect your crank length, or your handlebar width, seat tube angle - all the
angles, wheel base !
http://www.lemondbikes.com/bikes/road_racing/carbon_aluminum_spine/alpe_d_huez.php?tab=2
I'm riding a 61cm lemond that I got at chain reaction, it's the best bike
that I have owned. It's my 4th road bike and my first fitted bike. You know
what- if I stand my peugeot, next to the lemond, they look similar, but the
similarities, even slight, show on the lemond to be more comfortable,
relaxed and even a faster ride.
Hope this helps.
Greg🙂

"Artoi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

Thanks for any comments.
--

Artoi said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

This is not a science. Assuming your present bike fits well, you'll
replicate the seat height and fore/aft saddle position and then get a
1cm or so shorter stem. Most riders have comfortably owned a range of sizes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

The chances are good that it could work. You will have to determine
for yourself whether it would be better or worse than what you have
now.

ITS LIKE: BUYING A PIG IN A POKE!!

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:04:18 GMT, Artoi <[email hidden]> may have

Quoted message said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

If the increase makes the bike a better fit, then that's the effect.
If the increase makes the bike a worse fit, then that's the effect. If
you can't tell the difference, then it may not matter, but if the
change causes the owner to be implicated as a mass murderer because
his purloined-and-replaced-with-a-near-duplicate bicycle is discovered
at the scene of a recreation of the Manson massacre, then the ability
to detect the change and report the suspicious development could well
be a crucial talent.

(I will studiously avoid any reference to a line resembling, in any
significant manner, "If the frame does not fit, you must acquit!"😉

For many (if not most) people, a 1cm change will not be enough to make
a remarkable difference. Whether that is true for *you* is not a
matter which I can address.

Quoted message said:

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

There are more factors involved in getting a good fit than just the
two measurements you cited, and absent a simulation setup that would
allow you to evaluate the geometry of the ride position without
actually being on the bike, the only way to find out if it would be a
good ride for you is by getting on it and trying it.

The chances are good that it could work. You will have to determine
for yourself whether it would be better or worse than what you have
now.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Artoi said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

That is insufficient data other than to say that both seem roughly in
range. Does the current bike fit you well? Do you need a longish stem
to make it comfortable? If the latter, maybe the 54 will do better;
since that 1cm off the stem actually re-positions your body on the bike.

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

I am 173cm in height.

Thanks for any comments.
--

I am the same height as you and I have owned 55, 54 and 52cm frames. My
experience was that 54 was clearly on the large end of what was
acceptable for my tastes. I had an Easton EC70 seatpost that I had to
adjust at or beyond the maximum insertion mark on a 54cm horizontal top
tube frame. I remember that I definitely had to go past the maximum
insertion mark on the 55cm.

You can probably make up for the added top tube length with a shorter
stem. Unfortunately, stem length has a very obvious effect on bike feel
in my experience, with short stems being twitchier and less fun to ride.
As always, YMMV.

I think 1cm can make a difference for you, because it is probably about
as large a frame as you would want. When I tried 52cm frames, I liked
them much better than the 54's. I have also seen more than one fit guru
say that too many people ride bikes that are just too big for them.
Having given up frames that were on the ragged edge of what fit, I tend
to agree.

Barnard Frederick said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

Quoted message said:

I am currently on a 53cm c-c seat tube (projected virtual horizontal top
tube) compact frame and is looking at a 54cm c-c seat tube traditional
frame. The 54cm frame also has a 1cm increase in the top tube length.

Quoted message said:

I am wondering what's the effect of this larger frame? Would I be able
to get a good fit out ot it? I note from Competitive Cyclist's web site
fitting chart that there are different fit systems which suggests that
both frame sizes can fit me.

Quoted message said:

I am 173cm in height.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any comments.
--

I am the same height as you and I have owned 55, 54 and 52cm frames. My
experience was that 54 was clearly on the large end of what was
acceptable for my tastes. I had an Easton EC70 seatpost that I had to
adjust at or beyond the maximum insertion mark on a 54cm horizontal top
tube frame. I remember that I definitely had to go past the maximum
insertion mark on the 55cm.

You can probably make up for the added top tube length with a shorter
stem. Unfortunately, stem length has a very obvious effect on bike feel
in my experience, with short stems being twitchier and less fun to ride.
As always, YMMV.

I think 1cm can make a difference for you, because it is probably about
as large a frame as you would want. When I tried 52cm frames, I liked
them much better than the 54's. I have also seen more than one fit guru
say that too many people ride bikes that are just too big for them.
Having given up frames that were on the ragged edge of what fit, I tend
to agree.

Hey Barnard: It would be interesting to see what you think of the
frame recommendations at these two sites:

www.wrenchscience.com
www.competative cyclist.com

Based on the numbers I plugged into those sites (accurate measurements
according to their instructions), a minimum of 54" seat tube w/ 54-55
top tube (horizontal) was recommended. I'm a bit shorter than you.
I'm just curious because it seems that you have personal experience
with a bunch of bikes. I have experience with only one other road
bike and it was a bit too short, at least as far as the seat tube
(seat post set at maximum, barely adequate; long stem).

The competative cyclist site recommended even larger frame sizes for
the "more comfortable" fits (Eddy Fit and French Fit).

This is just a FWIW, but I'd be interested in your opinion of those
fit sites.

Thanks.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Artoi said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size for
an individual?

It's impossible to say without knowing how the 1cm smaller frame fits.
If you're already flirting with too large a frame, obviously going
another 1cm is going to make things worse. Likewise, if you were
working with too small a frame, 1cm might not even be enough.

Quoted message said:

I am 173cm in height.

If the top of your head ever comes in contact with your bike, you're
doing something wrong. Your bike doesn't give a damn how tall you are.
I think you really need to rethink the metrics you're using to determine
frame size.

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Doc O'Leary <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Artoi said:

Just wondering, what's the effect of 1cm increase in the frame size
for an individual?

It's impossible to say without knowing how the 1cm smaller frame fits.
If you're already flirting with too large a frame, obviously going
another 1cm is going to make things worse. Likewise, if you were
working with too small a frame, 1cm might not even be enough.

Quoted message said:

I am 173cm in height.

If the top of your head ever comes in contact with your bike, you're
doing something wrong. Your bike doesn't give a damn how tall you
are. I think you really need to rethink the metrics you're using to
determine frame size.

Ditto.
The answer.
Not the person.
But ...

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Hey Barnard: It would be interesting to see what you think of the
frame recommendations at these two sites:

www.wrenchscience.com
www.competative cyclist.com

Based on the numbers I plugged into those sites (accurate measurements
according to their instructions), a minimum of 54" seat tube w/ 54-55
top tube (horizontal) was recommended. I'm a bit shorter than you.
I'm just curious because it seems that you have personal experience
with a bunch of bikes. I have experience with only one other road
bike and it was a bit too short, at least as far as the seat tube
(seat post set at maximum, barely adequate; long stem).

The competative cyclist site recommended even larger frame sizes for
the "more comfortable" fits (Eddy Fit and French Fit).

This is just a FWIW, but I'd be interested in your opinion of those
fit sites.

Thanks.

I've used Wrench Science before, and IIRC it recommended a reach of
64cm, which would be a 54cm top tube with a 100mm stem. I think this
was a reasonably accurate estimate and I sort of use it for a rule of
thumb. Since 100mm is the shortest stem I would want to use, a 54cm top
tube would be the longest I would want. Also don't forget the barely
adequate seat height range I had with a 54cm horizontal top tube frame.
54cm works for me reasonably well, but the 55cm horizontal top tube
frame didn't have adequate seat height range and the reach made me
purchase a 90mm stem originally. I later changed it to a 100mm stem,
and I didn't suffer much for it, but I ride a 52cm frame with a 52-53cm
top tube and a 110mm stem now and I like this setup better.