eeeeeeeeevil TGO ;-) (Feb 2005)

<SteveO> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

8 pages on the PCT

nooooo, no, nooo!
<sigh>

er. PCT?

Quoted message said:

SteveO
--

SteveO said:

8 pages on the PCT

Akshally there's a lot of inspiring stuff in this edition, lots of
adventure travel, what looks to be a good article on ski/telemark
touring (with some spiffing photos), himalayan adventures and an
interesting artcile about Millican Dalton "Ragamuffin of the Savage
Club)

But... one fly in the ointment!

Mr T, how could you? Fancy doing a review of sleepy mattresses and,
well, first of all I'd have thought you might have co-opted PW because
of her well documented trials and tribulations with 'ips and
mattresses. Plus, no mention of the model that won in her personal
round of tests... that make of which escapes me at the mo'!

Tchaa! Your normally high standards slipped a bit there, eh?!? ;-))

Footnote: I'm not <blah><blah> connected <blah> TGO

....but if TGO felt a small stipend was in order, well, who would I be
to refuse, eh? ;-)

Nah, its a good read, I reckon, this month and jsut wanted to mention
to others who normally shy away because magazines are usually same-old
same-old.

--
SteveO

PPP
rr |\ _,,,---,,_
zz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

bob watkinson said:

<SteveO> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

8 pages on the PCT

nooooo, no, nooo!
<sigh>

er. PCT?

The walking adventure that is the Pacific Crest Trail

--
SteveO

PPP
rr |\ _,,,---,,_
zz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:36:07 +0000, SteveO wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Plus, no mention of the model that won in her personal
round of tests... that make of which escapes me at the mo'!

The Exped Down Air Mattress, which won European Outdoor Award "Product
of the Year" for 2002/2003.

It's truly one of the best bits of kit I've ever used. Anyone who has
ever been uncomfy or cold on a T-Rest or similar: take a look here
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

It seems a pity not to mention it, but I've not seen the article yet.
Maybe this mattress fell outside the parameters. I'll get TGO when I
nip into town shortly, and have a look.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:36:07 +0000, SteveO wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Plus, no mention of the model that won in her personal
round of tests... that make of which escapes me at the mo'!

The Exped Down Air Mattress, which won European Outdoor Award "Product
of the Year" for 2002/2003.

It's truly one of the best bits of kit I've ever used. Anyone who has
ever been uncomfy or cold on a T-Rest or similar: take a look here
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

It seems a pity not to mention it, but I've not seen the article yet.
Maybe this mattress fell outside the parameters. I'll get TGO when I
nip into town shortly, and have a look.

Simple answer. The company didn't supply one for test.

SteveO@?.?.invalid writes

Quoted message said:

bob watkinson said:

er. PCT?

The walking adventure that is the Pacific Crest Trail

I couldn't hold my breath that long.
--
Gordon Harris

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:11:19 +0000, Chris Townsend
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Simple answer. The company didn't supply one for test.

That seems a great shame to me, because ultimately it's the consumers
buying the magazine who lose out if good kit isn't reviewed.

It was only by a stroke of good luck that I happened to stumble across
the Exped mattress in a shop in Ambleside earlier in the year, having
spent several months unsuccessfully trying to track down a comfortable
(for me) mattress via the internet. As everyone who camps knows, an
uncomfortable night's sleep is a miserable affair in a tent: a comfy
mattress makes an enormous difference.

Chris - d'you mind me asking what the system is for collecting
products, when arranging to conduct a review? I'm just wondering
whether it might be possible to briefly identify products which are
known to be strong at the end of reviews, even if the manufacter
hasn't bothered to submit one for test. It's unimpessive that
manufacturers sometimes don't bother to submit samples, but the TGO
reviews are written for the benefit of the reader, not the
manufacturer. At least a brief mention would draw the existence of
such products to the attention of the people reading the review, so
that they could make their own enquiries if, for some reason, the
other products weren't suitable for them.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:11:19 +0000, Chris Townsend
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Simple answer. The company didn't supply one for test.

That seems a great shame to me, because ultimately it's the consumers
buying the magazine who lose out if good kit isn't reviewed.

I agree it's a shame. I may be able to review one in future.

Quoted message said:

It was only by a stroke of good luck that I happened to stumble across
the Exped mattress in a shop in Ambleside earlier in the year, having
spent several months unsuccessfully trying to track down a comfortable
(for me) mattress via the internet. As everyone who camps knows, an
uncomfortable night's sleep is a miserable affair in a tent: a comfy
mattress makes an enormous difference.

Chris - d'you mind me asking what the system is for collecting
products, when arranging to conduct a review?

No problem. It's not a secret :-). Once a year I send out a gear
schedule for test reports for the next year to every company or their
representatives (PR companies) who might be interested. The companies
then supply gear they would like tested.

Quoted message said:

I'm just wondering
whether it might be possible to briefly identify products which are
known to be strong at the end of reviews, even if the manufacter
hasn't bothered to submit one for test.

I would be reluctant to do this as I wouldn't want to recommend anything
I hadn't tested. I do sometimes contact companies if I think there's a
product that should be in a test but which hasn't been supplied.
Companies sometimes don't supply products because a new version is
imminent, because they want a different item reviewed, because they
don't want to promote that particular item (due to low stocks or poor
sales usually), because they don't have a test sample, because they
don't think I'll like it and of course because they, or their PR
company, forget.

Quoted message said:

It's unimpessive that
manufacturers sometimes don't bother to submit samples

As far as I know in this case it was the PR company who forgot to
request the company to supply a sample. (Exped are a Swiss company, I
deal with the UK importers and their PR agents. I've never dealt with
Exped direct). The company have already asked why it wasn't included.

Quoted message said:

, but the TGO
reviews are written for the benefit of the reader, not the
manufacturer. At least a brief mention would draw the existence of
such products to the attention of the people reading the review, so
that they could make their own enquiries if, for some reason, the
other products weren't suitable for them.

I'll keep that in mind but as I say I'm not sure about mentioning
products that haven't been tested.

In this I must admit that the Exped Down Air Mattress was not on my list
of mattresses that must be covered. I've never seen one in a shop. In
fact I've never seen one at all. So part of the omission is due to me,
in that I didn't have it down as something I should chase up.

I wasn't involved in the European Gear Award that year or I'd have had a
mattress.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 22:03:18 +0000, Chris Townsend
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just wondering
whether it might be possible to briefly identify products which are
known to be strong at the end of reviews, even if the manufacter
hasn't bothered to submit one for test.

Quoted message said:

I would be reluctant to do this as I wouldn't want to recommend anything
I hadn't tested.

I do see what you mean.

Quoted message said:

I do sometimes contact companies if I think there's a
product that should be in a test but which hasn't been supplied.
Companies sometimes don't supply products because a new version is
imminent, because they want a different item reviewed, because they
don't want to promote that particular item (due to low stocks or poor
sales usually), because they don't have a test sample, because they
don't think I'll like it and of course because they, or their PR
company, forget.

It's quite a complicated business, then. I'm not surprised by that at
all, but it's a little frustrating to think that companies might hold
products back from review for reasons like that!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's unimpessive that
manufacturers sometimes don't bother to submit samples

Quoted message said:

As far as I know in this case it was the PR company who forgot to
request the company to supply a sample. (Exped are a Swiss company, I
deal with the UK importers and their PR agents. I've never dealt with
Exped direct). The company have already asked why it wasn't included.

Embarrassing for the PR company, istm.

[...]

Quoted message said:

In this I must admit that the Exped Down Air Mattress was not on my list
of mattresses that must be covered. I've never seen one in a shop. In
fact I've never seen one at all. So part of the omission is due to me,
in that I didn't have it down as something I should chase up.

Well not to worry: you can't be expected to have everything 🙂

Thanks for explaining how it all works. Manufacturers need to try
harder on occasion, imo.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 22:03:18 +0000, Chris Townsend
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just wondering
whether it might be possible to briefly identify products which are
known to be strong at the end of reviews, even if the manufacter
hasn't bothered to submit one for test.

Quoted message said:

I would be reluctant to do this as I wouldn't want to recommend anything
I hadn't tested.

I do see what you mean.

Quoted message said:

I do sometimes contact companies if I think there's a
product that should be in a test but which hasn't been supplied.
Companies sometimes don't supply products because a new version is
imminent, because they want a different item reviewed, because they
don't want to promote that particular item (due to low stocks or poor
sales usually), because they don't have a test sample, because they
don't think I'll like it and of course because they, or their PR
company, forget.

It's quite a complicated business, then. I'm not surprised by that at
all, but it's a little frustrating to think that companies might hold
products back from review for reasons like that!

What us most frustrating is when I test a product and then contact the
company to confirm prices and check for any possible changes only to be
told the item has been withdrawn! That happens several times a year,
sometimes with products I've only had a few months.

One factor is that very few companies are manufacturers these days. Most
are design & marketing companies who buy in factory time somewhere
abroad, usually in the Far East, to have their products made. This means
products are made in batches once or twice a year. Once a batch is sold
that product may be discontinued or changed drastically before it is
remade.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's unimpessive that
manufacturers sometimes don't bother to submit samples

Quoted message said:

As far as I know in this case it was the PR company who forgot to
request the company to supply a sample. (Exped are a Swiss company, I
deal with the UK importers and their PR agents. I've never dealt with
Exped direct). The company have already asked why it wasn't included.

Embarrassing for the PR company, istm.

Indeed.

Quoted message said:

[...]

Quoted message said:

In this I must admit that the Exped Down Air Mattress was not on my list
of mattresses that must be covered. I've never seen one in a shop. In
fact I've never seen one at all. So part of the omission is due to me,
in that I didn't have it down as something I should chase up.

Well not to worry: you can't be expected to have everything 🙂

Thanks for explaining how it all works. Manufacturers need to try
harder on occasion, imo.

In Article <[email hidden]>,Peewiglet

Quoted message said:

It's truly one of the best bits of kit I've ever used. Anyone who has
ever been uncomfy or cold on a T-Rest or similar: take a look here
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

Just how fiddly is it to pump one of these up then? Compared to a TaR for
instance? Just reading the blurb about using the stuff sack and it taking
around 10 sack fulls to make the matress usuable. I'm kind of interested,
more for car camping really, but don't want to make life too difficult, the
TaR's are really no trouble to inflate. Maybe I should take a closer look,
where did you find it in the shops, Needlesports?

Regards,
Richard G.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:34:21 +0000, Richard G. <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's truly one of the best bits of kit I've ever used. Anyone who has
ever been uncomfy or cold on a T-Rest or similar: take a look here
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

Just how fiddly is it to pump one of these up then? Compared to a TaR for
instance? Just reading the blurb about using the stuff sack and it taking
around 10 sack fulls to make the matress usuable. I'm kind of interested,
more for car camping really, but don't want to make life too difficult, the
TaR's are really no trouble to inflate. Maybe I should take a closer look,
where did you find it in the shops, Needlesports?

It's much more fiddly to inflate than a T-rest, which more or less
inflates itself. Although it's no trouble to attach the stuff sack,
and push in 10 or so sacks of air, the confined space available in a
small tent makes the process fiddly because it's not easy to find
somewhere to kneel as the mattress inflates.

Having said that, the process takes me 2-3 minutes at most, and I
gladly put up with a few minutes of low grade hassle for the benefit
of a comfortable night's sleep.

I don't think these mattresses are likely to appeal to people who are
entirely satisfied with their current mattress. There'd be no point in
carrying something even slightly heavier or larger if there's no
problem needing to be fixed. For anyone who is ever uncomfortable (or
chilly) on a conventional self-inflating mattress, though, this
mattress could completely transform their camping experience. In terms
of comfort it's simply in a different league from any other mattress
I've ever slept on.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In Article <[email hidden]>,Peewiglet

Quoted message said:

I don't think these mattresses are likely to appeal to people who are
entirely satisfied with their current mattress. There'd be no point in
carrying something even slightly heavier or larger if there's no
problem needing to be fixed. For anyone who is ever uncomfortable (or
chilly) on a conventional self-inflating mattress, though, this
mattress could completely transform their camping experience. In terms
of comfort it's simply in a different league from any other mattress
I've ever slept on.

I'm reasonably happy with my TaR Ultralite for backpacking, but when car
camping we use huge inflatable matresses that require a pump to get them
inflated, mainly 'cos we didn't know any better when we bought them! They're
perfectly comfortable to use, but are a PITA to inflate/deflate.

Thanks for the info anyway.
Oh, and where did you find the Exped again?

Regards,
Richard G.

"Richard G." <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the info anyway.
Oh, and where did you find the Exped again?

There's one in the Snow & Rock catalogue for £85.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:09:23 +0000, Richard G. <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In Article <[email hidden]>,Peewiglet

Quoted message said:

I don't think these mattresses are likely to appeal to people who are
entirely satisfied with their current mattress. There'd be no point in
carrying something even slightly heavier or larger if there's no
problem needing to be fixed. For anyone who is ever uncomfortable (or
chilly) on a conventional self-inflating mattress, though, this
mattress could completely transform their camping experience. In terms
of comfort it's simply in a different league from any other mattress
I've ever slept on.

I'm reasonably happy with my TaR Ultralite for backpacking, but when car
camping we use huge inflatable matresses that require a pump to get them
inflated, mainly 'cos we didn't know any better when we bought them! They're
perfectly comfortable to use, but are a PITA to inflate/deflate.

Ahaa....well in that case, I think you'd find the Exped easier to
inflate and deflate than the ones you're currently using for car
camping, and possibly warmer. As mentioned above, the only difficulty
I have inflating mine is one of limited space, but when I play with it
at home I have no problem at all.

They look a lot like an ordinary airbed when inflated. I suppose the
*are* a lot like an ordinary airbed :-) Except that they contain
down, which makes them warm and cozy to lie on.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the info anyway.
Oh, and where did you find the Exped again?

I got mine at The Climbers' Shop in Ambleside. I almost missed it, but
eventually noticed it standing, inflated, against the wall, as I was
waiting down in the basement for some info about a rucksack. I
resisted the temptation to buy it immediately, but when I got home (to
check it out on the internet) I found them at various other online
places.

http://www.theclimbersshop.co.uk/docs/productSearch.php

I really love it, but I realise that not everyone finds T-rests
uncomfortable and so I don't want to appear to be evangelising 🙂

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In Article <[email hidden]>,"AndyP"

Quoted message said:

There's one in the Snow & Rock catalogue for £85.

Mmmm, I'd like to get my hands (or rather my back) on one before parting
with that sort of money though.

Regards,
Ricgard G.

In Article <[email hidden]>,Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[big snip]

Quoted message said:

http://www.theclimbersshop.co.uk/docs/productSearch.php

OK, thanks for the link.

Regards,
Richard G.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 22:19:25 +0000, Richard G. <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In Article <[email hidden]>,"AndyP"

Quoted message said:

There's one in the Snow & Rock catalogue for £85.

Mmmm, I'd like to get my hands (or rather my back) on one before parting
with that sort of money though.

You're welcome to try mine if you're anywhere near me. Drop me a line
if interested. (Address in sig below: the mystery word is 'wiglet'.)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In Article <[email hidden]>,Peewiglet

Quoted message said:

You're welcome to try mine if you're anywhere near me. Drop me a line
if interested. (Address in sig below: the mystery word is 'wiglet'.)

That's very kind of you, I was thinking of using it as an excuse to visit
the shops though! I might take you up if I don't track one down.

Regards,
Richard G.