Eddy Mercks MX Leader vs Corsa frameset?

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From: "crj" [email hidden]

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I would like a newer MX Leader but am sorta concerned about how it will handle compared to my older
more upright 86 Merckx with a 74degree seatpost angle? the newer MX leaders are a more relaxed
72.39 degrees.

I had an 84 Corsa (SL) that I really liked, great for riding on "uneven surfaces".

This is totally personal, you asked-- the Century-angles (@72deg) Merckx I rode, I didn't like,
but it was similar to riding my Holdsworth or Roberts touring bikes with "relaxed" head angles and
longer rakes, they flop the handlebars for awhile until you ride for a little while and get used
to the feel.

Per Vechhio, Merckx's still available "custom", AFAIK you can get tube types, lengths/angles you
want, but I don't think you can get those 1986 decals from Merckx anymore, maybe through Cycle Art
or similar.

Yeah, I sold mine so I didn't have to see it break. Many, many miles on that one, sold as such.
--Tom Paterson

I would stay away for CyclArt. They repainted my old steel frame, and it was overbudget, overdue
and a hassle.

"Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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From: "crj" [email hidden]

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I would like a newer MX Leader but am sorta concerned about how it will handle compared to my
older more upright 86 Merckx

with a

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74degree seatpost angle? the newer MX leaders are a more relaxed 72.39 degrees.

I had an 84 Corsa (SL) that I really liked, great for riding on "uneven surfaces".

This is totally personal, you asked-- the Century-angles (@72deg) Merckx I rode, I didn't
like, but it was similar to riding my Holdsworth or Roberts touring bikes with "relaxed" head
angles and longer rakes, they flop the handlebars for awhile until you ride for a little while
and get used to

the

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feel.

Per Vechhio, Merckx's still available "custom", AFAIK you can get tube

types,

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lengths/angles you want, but I don't think you can get those 1986 decals

from

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Merckx anymore, maybe through Cycle Art or similar.

Yeah, I sold mine so I didn't have to see it break. Many, many miles on

that

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one, sold as such. --Tom Paterson

CycleArt used to sell the bikes that they painted and then sprung the bill on the owner often more
than the cost of the complete bike that the idiot owner had bought. They do nice work but I think
that you could buy a Ferrari for the cost of an original 7-11 paint job on a Merckx.

"Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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From: "Greg Nelson"

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I would stay away for CyclArt. They repainted my old steel frame,

and it

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was overbudget, overdue and a hassle.

My mention did not imply an endorsement, though I haven't heard bad

reviews,

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but just a suggestion to use them as a source of "vintage" decals, a

service

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they did provide according to past reports. There may be other

sources for

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Merckx and other decals.

Sometimes (easy to say) if there is a problem with price at the

beginning of a

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project, it is a good time to cut your losses and go elsewhere. My

life lesson

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was a house roof, shoulda paid for the tear-off and hired someone

else. Life

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goes on. --TP

"Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Continuing: I have never done business with CycleArt and previous to

this

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immediate time haven't heard anything negative about them. To the

contrary, my

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few bits of info consist of references to fairly expensive but

"perfect" work.

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Prices no way on the same order of magnitude to your "Ferrari"

exaggeration.

One guy told me that he had a restoration paint job on a classic road bike with all sorts of
pin striping and such and that it cost him $600. That's a pretty damned expensive paint job if
you ask me.

Now I saw the bike and it was indeed perfect. People who require that sort of work absolutely should
go to CycleArt but be sure and know up front what you're going to spend.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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From: "Tom Kunich" [email hidden]

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One guy told me that he had a restoration paint job on a classic

road

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bike with all sorts of pin striping and such and that it cost him $600. That's a pretty damned
expensive paint job if you ask me.

Now I saw the bike and it was indeed perfect. People who require

that

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sort of work absolutely should go to CycleArt but be sure and know

up

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front what you're going to spend.

Tom that's a pretty reasonable price for the amount of work and

skill that

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goes into a paint job like your describing. You'll pay the auto

dealer $70/hr.

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for the dickwad with the finger up his nose to replace your

thermostat. This

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takes NO skill and very few brain cells. Repainting bicycles, and

recreating

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vintage schemes is both technically, and artistically demanding,

especially if

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they have to recreate decals etc.. There is a major disconnect in todays society between what
the true

artisan

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provides, and what they get paid. There are enough mass produced,

POS, "Close

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Enough" alternatives that people don't understand, or want to pay

for, what it

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takes to do it right. I'm glad you pointed out the quality of their work, and that if

people want it

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right that's where to go. People just have no idea what the actual

costs, and

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amount of time involved are. Bill C

That's reasonable for the bike I saw which was either a Hethchins or a high style Bob Jackson
restored better than new and those companies really did nice work in the first place.

But I've also heard of that sort of pricing for less spectacular paint jobs as well.

As you point out, the artistry in their work is well known and if you want the best you better be
willing to pay for it. I just wanted to point out that if you send in your Schwinn Traveler and
don't ask what it's going to cost you're going to be in for a really BIG surprise.

On the other hand two local painters here charged me $135 and $175 for plain one color paint jobs
with no decals and both of them had paint flaking off all by itself all over the bike. While
visiting one of the shops which also does modifications, I saw several prepped frames sitting over
the welding bench and the welder reached up with his greasy hand and moved a couple of prepped bikes
over. Later when I got home I looked at where the paint was popping off and sure enough it was in
the shape of a couple of fingers.

From then on I stopped going to trashy little bike painters and when I wanted a cheap paint job
(less than $200) I take it to one of the powder coaters that are around. The paint doesn't look as
good as the best paint jobs but it is durable as hell.

"Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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From: "Tom Kunich"

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One guy told me that he had a restoration paint job on a classic

road

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bike with all sorts of pin striping and such and that it cost him $600. That's a pretty damned
expensive paint job if you ask me.

I met someone who bought a 7-11 team bike for a few hundred more

than that

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(complete, when the team broke up) as an alternative to refinishing

his first

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Merckx, given a similar-sized repaint estimate. The pro bike had a

few little

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scratches on it, boogered Columbus decal or whatever, but was a

low-miles

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backup. Smarter spending IMHO. Plus a little cachet from having a

name on the

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top tube, what the hell.

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Now I saw the bike and it was indeed perfect. People who require

that

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sort of work absolutely should go to CycleArt but be sure and know

up

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front what you're going to spend

Amen, brother Tom. And what's going to happen on that first gravel

road. --TP

Funny story, I think we were just talking about Dan Tonelli who has tons of miles in. Dan was with
us on a ride up in northern California. We took a wrong turn and ended up way out in the sticks. Dan
had ridden on that road before (you've to to imagine this - some podunk road out towards Antelope!)
and knew we had to go back. So we turned up the first road going in the correct direction and it was
gravel. Dan HATES anything but smooth clean pavement and his teeth were gritting so loudly I'm
surprised he made the 6 miles with any teeth left at all. He spend two hours cleaning the bike after
that even using q-tips in places.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Tom Kunich"

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Funny story, I think we were just talking about Dan Tonelli who has tons of miles in. Dan was with
us on a ride up in northern California. We took a wrong turn and ended up way out in the sticks.
Dan had ridden on that road before (you've to to imagine this - some podunk road out towards
Antelope!) and knew we had to go back. So we turned up the first road going in the correct
direction and it was gravel. Dan HATES anything but smooth clean pavement and his teeth were
gritting so loudly I'm surprised he made the 6 miles with any teeth left at all. He spend two
hours cleaning the bike after that even using q-tips in places.

Most people who have bikes like that barely ride them at all. They're more of a showpiece,
really. He had to have been [censored] bricks all the way down that road. I know that CycleArt does
have great quality work, but the prices are high (and as Bill described, I certainly recognize
that quality work is time consuming and is worth a premium). One of my friends had less than
fantastic luck with them on buying a complete bike - apparently there were issues with another
person wanting the bike ("allegedly" - for legal purposes). He had to get a lawyer on it. Bike
arrived overnight, after a half-hour phone call from her. (Her middle initial is "V", which we
decided stood for "vicious".) Speaking of paying for quality, I just bought a kit to convert a
Chris King threaded heasdset over to threadless. Upper 'cone', top cap, a plastic washer and a
bolt for $40! I'm a machinist and have a fair idea how long it takes to blast those kinds of
pieces out on CNC. Pretty unbelievable.

--
tanx, Howard

"Danger, you haven't seen the last of me!"
"No, but the first of you turns my stomach!"
Firesign Theatre

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

i think someone got off on the wrong subject this is as far away from what i asked as i could ever
imagine................ Chuck Johnston

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Tom Kunich"

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Funny story, I think we were just talking about Dan Tonelli who has tons of miles in. Dan was
with us on a ride up in northern California. We took a wrong turn and ended up way out in the
sticks. Dan had ridden on that road before (you've to to imagine this - some podunk road out
towards Antelope!) and knew we had to go back. So we turned up the first road going in the
correct direction and it was gravel. Dan HATES anything but smooth clean pavement and his teeth
were gritting so loudly I'm surprised he made the 6 miles with any teeth left at all. He spend
two hours cleaning the bike after that even using q-tips in places.

Most people who have bikes like that barely ride them at all. They're more of a showpiece,
really. He had to have been [censored] bricks all the way down that road. I know that CycleArt
does have great quality work, but the prices are high (and as Bill described, I certainly
recognize that quality work is time consuming and is worth a premium). One of my friends had
less than fantastic luck with them on buying a complete bike - apparently there were issues
with another person wanting the bike ("allegedly" - for legal purposes). He had to get a lawyer
on it. Bike arrived overnight, after a half-hour phone call from her. (Her middle initial is
"V", which we

decided

Quoted message said:

stood for "vicious".) Speaking of paying for quality, I just bought a kit to convert a Chris King
threaded heasdset over to threadless. Upper 'cone', top cap, a

plastic

Quoted message said:

washer and a bolt for $40! I'm a machinist and have a fair idea how long

it

Quoted message said:

takes to blast those kinds of pieces out on CNC. Pretty unbelievable.

--
tanx, Howard

"Danger, you haven't seen the last of me!"
"No, but the first of you turns my stomach!"
Firesign Theatre

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"crj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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i think someone got off on the wrong subject this is as far away

from what i

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asked as i could ever imagine................

So sue us.