Early 80's Guerciotti - Help needed

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

Then, as now, Campagnolo record was the top of the line. I don't
remember exactly, but I suspect Gran Sport was the second tier,
corresponding to Choris nowadays.

Antti Salonen said:

While shopping for some parts for my Ergopower levers, I discovered a
nice looking old bike at the LBS. It's a Guerciotti road bike from the
early 1980's with what appears to be a complete Campagnolo Gran Sport
group set and a 5-speed freewheel. It's a lugged steel frame with a
pearly grey paintjob, a matching steel fork and also a black Guerciotti
quill stem.

I'm interested in buying the bike as it happens to be exactly my size at
54 cm and in great condition. The same shop originally sold the bike
and according to them it was not ridden much by the original owner and
never in the rain. The bike has no signs of rust anywhere and the
paintjob as well as the decals are as good as new. The original
aluminium tubular rims seem to be in fine condition and they even have
the original tubulars mounted on them, which also look fine. The shop
is asking 350 Euros for the bike, or $420 at the current exchange rate -
Does this sound like a fair price?

As the bike is almost as old as myself, I'm too young to have any first
hand experience with bikes this old or any of the components. How is
the Campagnolo Gran Sport group set? Is there anything else to look out
for? Although it's no doubt considered blasphemy, I might also be
interested in replacing the original tubular rims with new clincher rims
- Is the rim diameter close enough for brake adjustment?

I'll put a photograph of the bike online in a few hours, and it'll be
at:

http://www.pp.fishpool.fi/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

-as

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Bob Wheeler said:

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

I think it would be difficult to build another set of wheels for it, as
the rear hub uses what I beleive is 121.5 mm spacing. For that reason I
think I'll probably just get a new pair of quality tubular tyres and
live with them. I won't be putting any significant mileage on this bike.

Quoted message said:

Then, as now, Campagnolo record was the top of the line. I don't
remember exactly, but I suspect Gran Sport was the second tier,
corresponding to Choris nowadays.

From the 1982 catalogue, it looks like the line was Super Record, Nuovo
Record and then Gran Sport. From the catalogue alone it's difficult to
tell the real differences between the components. The photograph is now
viewable at:

http://www.pp.fishpool.com/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

-as

Quoted message said:

http://www.pp.fishpool.com/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

beautiful bike,
i would go for it. buy some new tubulars and you are set.
by the way, nice hifi system, but whats with the black spaghetti?

paul

The rear dropout spacing in those days was 120mm. You can still find
Campy freewheel hubs in that size. I wouldn't spend over $20 US for a
tubular tire -- more expensive tubulars will neither last longer nor
ride better. Yellow Jearsy will sell you 3 Clement's for $50, and don't
forget to buy several tubes of Tubasti.

Antti Salonen said:

Bob Wheeler said:

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

I think it would be difficult to build another set of wheels for it, as
the rear hub uses what I beleive is 121.5 mm spacing. For that reason I
think I'll probably just get a new pair of quality tubular tyres and
live with them. I won't be putting any significant mileage on this bike.

Quoted message said:

Then, as now, Campagnolo record was the top of the line. I don't
remember exactly, but I suspect Gran Sport was the second tier,
corresponding to Choris nowadays.

From the 1982 catalogue, it looks like the line was Super Record, Nuovo
Record and then Gran Sport. From the catalogue alone it's difficult to
tell the real differences between the components. The photograph is now
viewable at:

http://www.pp.fishpool.com/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

-as

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

The shop

Quoted message said:

is asking 350 Euros for the bike, or $420 at the current exchange rate -
Does this sound like a fair price?

As the bike is almost as old as myself, I'm too young to have any first
hand experience with bikes this old or any of the components. How is
the Campagnolo Gran Sport group set? Is there anything else to look out
for? Although it's no doubt considered blasphemy, I might also be
interested in replacing the original tubular rims with new clincher rims
- Is the rim diameter close enough for brake adjustment?

I'll put a photograph of the bike online in a few hours, and it'll be
at:

http://www.pp.fishpool.fi/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

-as

The bike looks nice!
I paid $350 for a 1972 or so Gitane Tour de France in 'semi restored'
condition. 'your' bike is clearly nicer than mine, so I think that the
price seems fair.

I have several older bikes, including two from 1980. In general, they
were not 'stupid light' like many of todays bikes, and I consider them
more durable.

Surely they will allow a test ride. I like riding my modern bikes,
and I also like riding the old stuff, which many others don't. If you
enjoy riding bikes of this period, I'd say you can't really go wrong
with this purchase, if it does fit as well as you think it will.

As to the tires - don't worry about blasphemy - tho I'd keep the
wheelset as is and get another set with clinchers, and use both on
occasion. Or sell the set with the tubs if you'll never use them.

good luck!
Erik Brooks,
Seattle

Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

While shopping for some parts for my Ergopower levers, I discovered a
nice looking old bike at the LBS. It's a Guerciotti road bike from the
early 1980's with what appears to be a complete Campagnolo Gran Sport
group set and a 5-speed freewheel. It's a lugged steel frame with a
pearly grey paintjob, a matching steel fork and also a black Guerciotti
quill stem.

I'm interested in buying the bike as it happens to be exactly my size at
54 cm and in great condition. The same shop originally sold the bike
and according to them it was not ridden much by the original owner and
never in the rain. The bike has no signs of rust anywhere and the
paintjob as well as the decals are as good as new. The original
aluminium tubular rims seem to be in fine condition and they even have
the original tubulars mounted on them, which also look fine. The shop
is asking 350 Euros for the bike, or $420 at the current exchange rate -
Does this sound like a fair price?

As the bike is almost as old as myself, I'm too young to have any first
hand experience with bikes this old or any of the components. How is
the Campagnolo Gran Sport group set? Is there anything else to look out
for? Although it's no doubt considered blasphemy, I might also be
interested in replacing the original tubular rims with new clincher rims
- Is the rim diameter close enough for brake adjustment?

I'll put a photograph of the bike online in a few hours, and it'll be
at:

Very nice looking bike. Looks mint. Even though it is not a top model,
with nice touches such as chrome, aero bottle and pedals, I think I am
"okay" with $420. I especially like the fork crown (no engraving?).
Are those nutted (instead of allen head) brake calipers? BTW, it
doesn't look like a 54 cm (c-c or c-t). Where is the Columbus tubing
sticker(s)?

The grouppo will do fine for what it was intended. If you want Super
Record/Nouvo Record, there are plenty of supply out there from many of
us since Campy was the most popular pro level components.

Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Bob Wheeler said:

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

I think it would be difficult to build another set of wheels for it, as
the rear hub uses what I beleive is 121.5 mm spacing. For that reason I
think I'll probably just get a new pair of quality tubular tyres and
live with them. I won't be putting any significant mileage on this bike.

Quoted message said:

Then, as now, Campagnolo record was the top of the line. I don't
remember exactly, but I suspect Gran Sport was the second tier,
corresponding to Choris nowadays.

From the 1982 catalogue, it looks like the line was Super Record, Nuovo
Record and then Gran Sport. From the catalogue alone it's difficult to
tell the real differences between the components. The photograph is now
viewable at:

http://www.pp.fishpool.com/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

-as

Man i would jump on that! Thats a beautiful bike. I have a guerciotti
that i rode for about 10 years. they are truely a super riding
bicycle. I promise you that you will not regret buying that bike.

Bob Wheeler wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

Then, as now, Campagnolo record was the top of the line. I don't
remember exactly, but I suspect Gran Sport was the second tier,
corresponding to Choris nowadays.

Gran sport were lighter than chorus, but not so robust.

Trevor

Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

While shopping for some parts for my Ergopower levers, I discovered a
nice looking old bike at the LBS. It's a Guerciotti road bike from the
early 1980's with what appears to be a complete Campagnolo Gran Sport
group set and a 5-speed freewheel. It's a lugged steel frame with a
pearly grey paintjob, a matching steel fork and also a black Guerciotti
quill stem.

I'm interested in buying the bike as it happens to be exactly my size at
54 cm and in great condition. The same shop originally sold the bike
and according to them it was not ridden much by the original owner and
never in the rain. The bike has no signs of rust anywhere and the
paintjob as well as the decals are as good as new. The original
aluminium tubular rims seem to be in fine condition and they even have
the original tubulars mounted on them, which also look fine. The shop
is asking 350 Euros for the bike, or $420 at the current exchange rate -
Does this sound like a fair price?

As the bike is almost as old as myself, I'm too young to have any first
hand experience with bikes this old or any of the components. How is
the Campagnolo Gran Sport group set? Is there anything else to look out
for? Although it's no doubt considered blasphemy, I might also be
interested in replacing the original tubular rims with new clincher rims
- Is the rim diameter close enough for brake adjustment?

I'll put a photograph of the bike online in a few hours, and it'll be
at:

http://www.pp.fishpool.fi/~as/pics/misc/guerciotti.html

-as

Hi Antti, Do yourself a great favor, and run!, don't walk! back to
that dealer, and buy that bike! It is very beautiful! Just my cup of
tea!

Nothing at all wrong with Gran Sport grouppo. I personally would
leave the bike as original as I can. Getting new, fresh Tubular tires
is no problem. If you don't know how to do it, let your bike shop do
it, and they'll tell you how it's done.

If you should decide though to change over to a Clincher Tire, this is
not a problem either, and I'm sure this same bike shop could lace a
set of new rims onto the same existing original hubs. I'd keep the
original rims, don't dump them!

These old Guerciotti's are gorgeous, great bikes! With careful
restoration detailing/cleaning/waxing, replacement of any parts that
aren't up to snuff, you'll have yourself a valuable, collectable
museum piece that anyone would be very proud to own.

Best of luck, and please let us know how it all turns out! Mark D.

Mark said:

Hi Antti, Do yourself a great favor, and run!, don't walk! back to
that dealer, and buy that bike! It is very beautiful! Just my cup of
tea!

It is reserved for me until next week, so it'll be mine should I want it.
It looks like it is indeed a good deal, so I think I do.

Quoted message said:

Nothing at all wrong with Gran Sport grouppo. I personally would
leave the bike as original as I can. Getting new, fresh Tubular tires
is no problem. If you don't know how to do it, let your bike shop do
it, and they'll tell you how it's done.

If you should decide though to change over to a Clincher Tire, this is
not a problem either, and I'm sure this same bike shop could lace a
set of new rims onto the same existing original hubs. I'd keep the
original rims, don't dump them!

I'm a competent hobbyist wheel builder myself, so replacing the rims
won't be a problem. However, I'm starting to think that just replacing
the tyres will be enough, or if the rims somehow don't appear to be in
decent condition, I'll replace them with new tubular rims such as Mavic
Reflex.

I bought my first road bike ever exactly two years ago, so I only have
experience with clinchers, but I doubt tubulars are something I won't be
able to figure out. At least in Europe, Tufo (www.tufo.com) offers a
good selection of (supposedly) very nice tubular tyres, not all of which
are stupid-light and expensive.

To the other poster who asked about the size - It is indeed 54 cm (c-c).
Perhaps the perspective in the photograph makes it look bigger than
that. I checked that and also measured the top tube and the distance
from saddle to handlebar, and it's a match for my 5'7" frame.

-as

In article said:

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

I find that hard to believe. I have had a set of tubulars for 10 years. I got
over 15000 km out of the front tubular before I got a flat.

My 2 year old clinchers on my new bike, is allready showing sign of cracks...

--
Jørn Dahl-Stamnes

Quoted message said:

I'm a competent hobbyist wheel builder myself, so replacing the rims
won't be a problem. However, I'm starting to think that just replacing
the tyres will be enough, or if the rims somehow don't appear to be in
decent condition, I'll replace them with new tubular rims such as Mavic
Reflex.

I bought my first road bike ever exactly two years ago, so I only have
experience with clinchers, but I doubt tubulars are something I won't be
able to figure out. At least in Europe, Tufo (www.tufo.com) offers a
good selection of (supposedly) very nice tubular tyres, not all of which
are stupid-light and expensive.

To the other poster who asked about the size - It is indeed 54 cm (c-c).
Perhaps the perspective in the photograph makes it look bigger than
that. I checked that and also measured the top tube and the distance
from saddle to handlebar, and it's a match for my 5'7" frame.

-as

Hi Antti, If you can build/rebuild wheels, I would think any other
Bike maintainence will be relatively very easy for you. Yep, Tufo's
will work great.

If you do buy the bike, I recommend going through the bike as much as
you can, relubing, adjusting, and replacing any parts that may not
look that good like Brake Blocks, Cables, Chain,. Use a good Hand
Glaze to clean/polish the paint, and apply a good wax to frame.

The bike to me appears to be a Pearl (Cream colored) White. Maybe it
is greyish? hard to tell sometimes with Digital pics.

All Alu Parts(Derailleurs/Calipers/Stems/Seatpost/Shifters) can
probably be brought back to brand spanking new appearance with some
care, and some good metal polish/cleaner wax.

With the addition of some fresh Bar Tape, and if you find your not
happy with the existing saddle, a Black Brooks saddle would go very
well with this bike.
If you ever need any Vintage Campy Parts (Brake lever Hoods, etc etc)
I know of a couple Vintage Campagnolo Dealers that can help you. One
lives in UK.

Keep us posted how you make out! Mark

Antti Salonen said:

It's a Guerciotti road bike from the
early 1980's with what appears to be a complete Campagnolo Gran Sport
group set and a 5-speed freewheel. It's a lugged steel frame with a
pearly grey paintjob, a matching steel fork and also a black Guerciotti
quill stem.

Quoted message said:

The shop
is asking 350 Euros for the bike, or $420 at the current exchange rate -
Does this sound like a fair price?

Well worth it. The bike appears to be in near mint condition. The brake
hoods even look new. I suspect it is a very early '80s model, since the
change over to 6 speed came around 1981-82. Also I notice the cable stop on
the rear stay is on top rather than on the bottom. My only reservation would
be the rather narrow range 5-speed freewheel. If you're going to be climbing
at all that could be a problem. The rear could easily be re-spaced to 126
mm. Six-speed freewheels are much easier to find that 5-speed. What kind of
tubing does it have?

See if you can find a clincher rim with the same rim diameter (ERD) so you
can just transfer the spokes one at a time.

Art Harris

Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

To the other poster who asked about the size - It is indeed 54 cm (c-c).
Perhaps the perspective in the photograph makes it look bigger than
that. I checked that and also measured the top tube and the distance
from saddle to handlebar, and it's a match for my 5'7" frame.

Hmmm ...

I strongly suspect that the rear spacing is >120mm for ITL frames of
that vintage. My guess is at ~ 126mm. If yes, you are in luck to fit a
modern cassette system in there.

Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

To the other poster who asked about the size - It is indeed 54 cm (c-c).
Perhaps the perspective in the photograph makes it look bigger than
that. I checked that and also measured the top tube and the distance
from saddle to handlebar, and it's a match for my 5'7" frame.

Hmmm ...

I strongly suspect that the rear spacing is >120mm for ITL frames of
that vintage. My guess is at ~ 126mm. If yes, you are in luck to fit a
modern cassette system in there.

Richard Chan said:

I strongly suspect that the rear spacing is >120mm for ITL frames of
that vintage. My guess is at ~ 126mm. If yes, you are in luck to fit a
modern cassette system in there.

I did not measure it and don't have the bike yet, but according to the
1982 Campagnolo catalogue which I found online the Nuovo Tipo rear hub
is 121.5 mm for 5-speed, 126.5 mm for 6-speed. I assume that's the hub
in there, as it otherwise seems to have a full Gran Sport group set.

The bike has a 5-speed freewheel on it, so I assumed it would be ~122
mm. If the lowest gear is something like 42-21, that's low enough for
me, and I'll probably just use the wheels as they are with the 5-speed
freewheel and just replace the tyres with new tubulars.

-as

Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It sounds like a steal at that price. The tubular rins are 700C, and you
will have no trouble replacing the rims. If it were me, I'd make up a
set of clincher wheels and keep the tubulars for show or special
occasions. (The tubular tires may blow out when ridden a bit. For some
reason tubulars do not age as well as clinchers. A clincher at that age
will still be as good, if not better, than new.)

I find that hard to believe. I have had a set of tubulars for 10 years. I

got

Quoted message said:

over 15000 km out of the front tubular before I got a flat.

My 2 year old clinchers on my new bike, is allready showing sign of

cracks...

Quoted message said:

Carbon reduces wear rate and punctures.

Trevor

Arthur Harris wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Antti Salonen said:

It's a Guerciotti road bike from the
early 1980's with what appears to be a complete Campagnolo Gran Sport
group set and a 5-speed freewheel. It's a lugged steel frame with a
pearly grey paintjob, a matching steel fork and also a black Guerciotti
quill stem.

Quoted message said:

The shop
is asking 350 Euros for the bike, or $420 at the current exchange rate -
Does this sound like a fair price?

Well worth it. The bike appears to be in near mint condition. The brake
hoods even look new. I suspect it is a very early '80s model, since the
change over to 6 speed came around 1981-82. Also I notice the cable stop on
the rear stay is on top rather than on the bottom. My only reservation

would

Quoted message said:

be the rather narrow range 5-speed freewheel. If you're going to be

climbing

Quoted message said:

at all that could be a problem. The rear could easily be re-spaced to 126
mm. Six-speed freewheels are much easier to find that 5-speed. What kind of
tubing does it have?

See if you can find a clincher rim with the same rim diameter (ERD) so you
can just transfer the spokes one at a time.

Best to use a 'gear train' wide ratio frewheel 13 - 32 with a half step
chainwheel for this rear mech. It does not like wide spaced chainwheels.
Even a 10 tooth difference is not easy to set up for complete satisfactory
use.

Trevor

Trevor said:

Best to use a 'gear train' wide ratio frewheel 13 - 32 with a half step
chainwheel for this rear mech. It does not like wide spaced chainwheels.
Even a 10 tooth difference is not easy to set up for complete satisfactory
use.

I'm assuming that the 5-speed freewheel is something like 11-21 or
12-21 and the chainrings 52/42, and that kind of gearing is just fine
for me. We have some steep hills in the neighbourhood (around Helsinki,
Finland) but none are very long, so 42-21 is just fine as the smallest
gear. At least personally, I welcome the hills as a chance to get out of
the saddle and change to a slower cadence for a while, if necessary.

-as