Dynamo Hubs - any experience?

Alternatively of course, would I be better off with a decent
re-chargeable kit? It does concern me that the Nimh packs can only be
charged a certain number of times, but I'm guessing it must be between
300 and 500 which equates to a good few years use.

Decisions, decisions!

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

"Mark (MSA)" wrote...

Quoted message said:

My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light
only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my EL300?

Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a
Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?

Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I
would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming a
B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?

I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper over
there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!

Thanks in advance.

I traded my EL300 for a Shimano DH-3N70 (Ultegra quality dynamo hub) and
Busch & Muller Lumotec halogen light. Yes, the output is significantly
better at the speeds you describe (and at lower speeds as well). My Cateye
was adequate for my nighttime cmmutes, the dynohub setup has increased my
enjoyment and safety tremendously.

For a comparison of the 2 Shimano hubs and the Schmidt, see
www.peterwhitecycles.com

If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage
you cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my
present setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make
your nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

"Mark (MSA)" wrote...

Quoted message said:

My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light only
(will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my EL300?

Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a
Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?

Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I
would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming a
B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?

I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper over
there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!

Thanks in advance.

Quoted message said:

If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage you
cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my present
setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make your
nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable.

I wonder how that set-up would compare to say the Electron 5w + 10w
system (or the 5w system with the bulb changed for a 10)?
http://tinyurl.com/cclq7

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

I submit that on or about Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:27:08 +0100, the person
known to the court as "Mark \(MSA\)" <[email hidden]> made
a statement (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's
bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is
there any experience of them in this group?

2 x SON, 1 x Nexus, another Nexus on order...

Quoted message said:

My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of
year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So
far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly
to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the
EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the
road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging
after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more
light.

A SON with a B&M Lumotec as primary and a SON E6 headlight as
secondary is my recommendation.

Quoted message said:

I was originally going to buy a Nimh re-chargeable set, but I thought I
would investigate dynamos first, even though I was dubious about their
performance.

I have ridden thousands of miles on unlit roads with a single 3W
powered off a Nexus, and more with a SON powering a double setup as
above (you connect them in series with a shorting switch across the
secondary, and you don't use the auto-switching Lumotec, just the
standard switched version).

Quoted message said:

My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light
only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my
EL300?

Yes. The lamps have better optics.

Quoted message said:

Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather than a
Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag, output?

Yes. The new Nexus is alleged to be nearly as good, but the SON is
worth every penny. The drag is barely noticeable - I rode 15 miles
with the light on in daylight by accident once, I didn't notice the
extra drag. And the SON does the 12V thing, which is good (again, I
believe the new Nexus does it, but /my/ SONs are better than my Nexus)

Quoted message said:

I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be cheaper
over there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!

Almost certainly - look at bicycles.de some time.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

= wonder how that set-up would compare to say the Electron 5w + 10w
=system (or the 5w system with the bulb changed for a 10)?

This is nit pcking.
The hub dynamo is fit and forget always works gives enough light and
un-noticable drag.A 3w front is enough for me in dark lanes and not
having to worry about it running down is a great improvement.
It will be fine for your commute and a great improvement on batteries.
If you like lots of light at times wear a head torch or use a battery
light as well,but if there is little light you don't need much, and if
blinded by car lights you cannot really compete anyway.
I have had a B&M oval halogen lamp with a shimano hub dynamo for a
couple of years.LED rear.
Old dynamos caused noticable drag.Expensive modern bottles do not.I was
glad to see the back of bottles.
TerryJ

"Mark (MSA)" wrote

Quoted message said:

I wonder how that set-up would compare to say the Electron 5w + 10w system
(or the 5w system with the bulb changed for a 10)?

Depends on how good the optics of the Electron system are. My questions
about any battery system are 1) how do low temperatures affect battery run
time and 2) what happens to battery output as the charge is depleted. The
beauty of dynamos is that you never have to worry about charging batteries,
batteries dying prematurely in the cold, forgetting to charge batteries or
any of that stuff.
--
mark

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark (MSA)

(') said:

I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is
there any experience of them in this group?

My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of
year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So
far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly
to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the
EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the
road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging
after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more
light.

Twenty-odd years ago, for six years, I used to commute twelve miles each
way summer and winter on unlit roads, and would often also go into town
to visit friends in the evenings, a further four miles each way. I used
a dynamo and judged it adequate for riding briskly and far better than
the battery lights available at the time, _but_ those lights were
nothing like as good as modern battery lights. I now have one bike in
the house with a Shimano Nexus hub dynamo, and am thinking of fitting
one to my own winter training bike. Dynamo lights have also improved
over the years, but (apart from the new, expensive Solidlights one) not
nearly as much as battery lights have. The one we have now I judge to be
bright enough for night riding on unlit roads, but my partner, whose
bike it is, prefers a battery rig.

Quoted message said:

I don't mind going down the hub route rather than a bottle dynamo which
I understand is less efficient.

If you're getting a dynamo definitely get a hub dynamo. Ones that run on
the tyre are noisy, high drag, prone to slip, untidy, wear out tyres and
are generally a nuisance.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing left for us to do
but pick up the pieces.

Mark (MSA) wrote:

I rode for over 100 km in Scotland in the dark on LEL with a SON powered
B&M Lumotec and D-toplight. IMHO the front light was better than my
riding partners EL500. I never notice the extra drag

In article said:

I don't mind going down the hub route rather than a bottle dynamo which
I understand is less efficient.

My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light
only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my
EL300?

Even a cheapish bottle dynamo with a Lumotec light gives a better light
than an EL300 in my experience. (I'm considering upgrading to a hub dynamo.)

Quoted message said:

Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above, but I
would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo, presuming
a B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?

Best value, maybe. The more expensive SON E6 seems to be generally
regarded as a better light in absolute terms. There's also the
Luxeon LED based 1203D. (I haven't tried that, but have borrowed a
1303, and based on that would expect the 1203D to be better than many
lights. http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php)
(B&M do an LED lamp too, the D'Lumotec Topal - apparently it's better
than their bulb lamps at lower speeds, but not at higher speeds (though
unlikely to ever burn out, which bulbs will eventually).)

Mark (MSA) said:

Would I be better off paying the extra for a Schmidt hub rather
than a Shimano? What's the difference, weight, quality, drag,
output?

Quoted message said:

Guess I will wait to see if anyone has any comments on the above,
but I would also like to know the best light to run off the dynamo,
presuming a B&M fitted with a 3 watt bulb would be best?

Quoted message said:

I work in Germany frequently, I'm presuming this gear must be
cheaper over there? Off to investigate the .de sites now!

I've run a Shimano NX30 for about the last 5 years. The last time I opened
the bearings, they weren't in good shape, and I've relegated it to a spare
bike now. Considering the price, I have no complaints about its longevity,
but I replaced it with a Schmidt. If I were buying a dynohub now for more
than occasional use, I'd consider one of the fancier Shimano models which
claim to have better seals and bearings.

Any of the Shimano hubs that produce a nominal 6V 3W will drive two
headlamps in series. I'm happy enough with a pair of Lumotecs (both round,
one with a standlicht) that I haven't felt the need to invest in anything
more exotic.

Shimano has a new model out called the DH-3N30. Details on the Shimano
Europe website.

http://www.roseversand.de is the cheapest source of hub dynamos that I've
come across. They have all the Shimano models, and a number of lamps and
accessories.

http://www.bikecomponents.de stock the SON.

James Thomson

Mark (MSA) said:

I know a lot has been written on the net about dynamo hubs, but is there
any experience of them in this group?

My daily commute of 24 miles each way sees me ride (at this time of
year), about 40 minutes on completely un-lit, narrow country lanes. So
far (past 2 years) I have managed with a Cateye EL300, twisted slightly
to the left to pick out the white line of the road edge. However, the
EL300 is not bright enough to warn me of any pot holes or debris in the
road at my average speed of 29kph. I also find it needs re-charging
after every 2 commutes to retain full power, what a pain. I NEED more
light.

I was originally going to buy a Nimh re-chargeable set, but I thought I
would investigate dynamos first, even though I was dubious about their
performance.

I upgraded from a re-chargeable setup to a SON with a Lumatech Oval Plus
lame and a 3W bulb and it was fine on unlit roads. When my commute
changed to be 21 miles each way on more major unlit roads with more
traffic it could not match the light from on coming cars. So I added an
E-6 secondary lamp and frankly it is fantastic. Commuting the sort of
distance you are I would highly recommend that set up.

I wrote both up on my blog last year.

http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/chrisg?anchor=my_son_changed_my_life

http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/chrisg?anchor=even_more_impressed_with_my

--chris

mark said:

If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage
you cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my
present setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make
your nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable.

If I were doing it, I'd fit an LED front (Unless you dislike the quality
of light). I can provide circuit diagrams (Thanks again Chris!) which
would cover most of the work of connecting the Luxeon LEDs to a dynohub.
The 3W LED is (IIRC) the limit of what can be achieved with the normal
dynohubs, but will provide more than enough light output to work with. I
currently run one with a 7.2v battery pack (Built for a different lamp)
at half current and it is easily bright enough for cautious travel of
unlit cycle tracks (Tested earlier in the week). Running it at full
whack should be bright enough for most road use.

Jon

mark said:

If I were travelling at the speeds you travel at and covering the mileage
you cover, I would certainly give serious thought to upgrading from my
present setup. A Schmidt hub, Lumotec primary and E6 secondary could make
your nighttime travel a lot more enjoyable.

If I were doing it, I'd fit an LED front (Unless you dislike the quality
of light). I can provide circuit diagrams (Thanks again Chris!) which
would cover most of the work of connecting the Luxeon LEDs to a dynohub.
The 3W LED is (IIRC) the limit of what can be achieved with the normal
dynohubs, but will provide more than enough light output to work with. I
currently run one with a 7.2v battery pack (Built for a different lamp)
at half current and it is easily bright enough for cautious travel of
unlit cycle tracks (Tested earlier in the week). Running it at full
whack should be bright enough for most road use.

Jon

Mark \(MSA\) said:

My first question is, at 18-20mph, would the output from a front light
only (will use battery on the rear) be significantly better than my
EL300?

Yes.

But...

At those speeds, you'd need two lights wired up to the dynamo to get
decent light output IMO. For that you need a Schmidt really.

By the time you've spent all that money, I'd just buy a Lumicycle
12W NiMH + smart charger set and keep the EL300 on the bike for
those times when the rechargables die.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A SON with a B&M Lumotec as primary and a SON E6 headlight as
secondary is my recommendation.

Can you expand on that please? I've just ordered SON generator + E6S +
E6Z - but it's not too late to change the order (he's ordered the hub
first to build the wheel onto).

And before anyone says "more money than sense", my car is so
inefficient that I will only have to commute 2400 km to have paid for
it in "saved petrol".

Arthur Clune said:

At those speeds, you'd need two lights wired up to the dynamo
to get decent light output IMO. For that you need a Schmidt really.

You really don't. A 30 euro Shimano NX30 will happily drive two headlamps.
That's not to say that Mark wouldn't get his money's worth from the
Schmidt.

James Thomson

James Thomson said:

http://www.roseversand.de is the cheapest source of hub dynamos that I've
come across. They have all the Shimano models, and a number of lamps and
accessories.

http://www.bikecomponents.de stock the SON.

Roseversand don't seem to have the new DH-3D71, only the 70.
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/content/cycle/seh/nl/en/news___info/news/
extremely_light_rotation.html

bikecomponents do list the DH-3N71, though with a photo that says DH-3N70.

In both cases prices seem to compare well with
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360014566
though I haven't checked shipping yet.

"iakobski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And before anyone says "more money than sense", my car is so
inefficient that I will only have to commute 2400 km to have paid for
it in "saved petrol".

More money than sense would be those supernova lights I saw in the wiggle
advert in the last issue of cycle. I saw those prices and thought 'eek'.

cheers,
clive

Nice setup. Nearly the same as mine, I'll have to get the E6, sounds
perfect for the long dark downhill stretches.
I've just changed from the Oval (broken when car knocked parked bike
over) to the Topal, which excellant in many ways, but could do with
some help away from the town.
-rory