Dutch culture

"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Goede Morgen :-)

Reading a book about Dutch culture last night there was
this passage about Dutch cycling.

Brings back happy memories of many enjoyable cycling tours
there, the only place other than on the London-Brighton I
have ever been in a bike-jam ;-)

Nice quote Simon,

What was the book and who is it by?

This is also interesting. It was on the net but now has
gone. It is by the author of kung-foo.tvkung-foo.tvOpen ↗

'The Dutch thrive on "gezelligheid". It is such a highly
valued and aspired concept that there is no foreign word
that equals it. Roughly, it means a warm, cosy and homely
feeling that you are doing the right thing by contributing
to the wellbeing of one and all. As such, it applies to any
context where you and/or your companions feel like you're
just created a safe and warm home, a place where you are
feeling happy and comfortable with the present companions,
just for that single moment. Gezelligheid does not depend on
wealth, a comfortable place, warmth, or what not. You can
hear the phrase "He! Wat gezellig!" (Hey! How "cosy" it is!)
in the weirdest situations. Sitting on the porch of a
'losmen' (lodgement) in Pangandaran, Indonesia, in the late
afternoon, looking at the rain pouring down while drinking
coffee "toebroek" can make you and your friend sigh and
exclaim simultaneously: "He! Wat gezellig!". Even a junkie
in a squatter's house at one of the Amsterdam canals can go
like "He, gezellig!", when, with his friends passed out on
the floor, the sun is breaking through the window and the
smell of fresh bread from the baker at the corner of the
street is seeping through the cracks of the floors.
Gezelligheid is a state of mind.'

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nice quote Simon,

What was the book and who is it by?

This is also interesting. It was on the net but now has
gone. It is by the author of kung-foo.tvkung-foo.tvOpen ↗

'The Dutch thrive on "gezelligheid". It is such a highly
valued and aspired concept that there is no foreign word
that equals it.

Sorry, bad news for you: the literal translation is
"fellowship".

Quoted message said:

Roughly, it means a warm, cosy and homely feeling that you
are doing the right thing by contributing to the wellbeing
of one and all.

Yes, indeed.

--
Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
Ce poulet a une grenade!

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

Goede Morgen :-)

Reading a book about Dutch culture last night there was
this passage about Dutch cycling.

simonmason.karoo.netzdutch.htmOpen ↗

Addition: there are now some 18 million bicycles in this
country......

--
Regards, Marten

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nice quote Simon,

What was the book and who is it by?

This is also interesting. It was on the net but now has
gone. It is by the author of kung-foo.tvkung-foo.tvOpen ↗

'The Dutch thrive on "gezelligheid". It is such a highly
valued and aspired concept that there is no foreign word
that equals it.

Sorry, bad news for you: the literal translation is
"fellowship".

We interrupt this message with the following: the literal
translation of 'gezelligheid' is not 'fellowship'. Being
Dutch, I should know ..... The description by the previous
poster is more accurate. 'Gezelligheid' is not translatable
(is that correct English?).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Roughly, it means a warm, cosy and homely feeling that
you are doing the right thing by contributing to the
wellbeing of one and all.

Yes, indeed.

True.

--
Regards, Marten

"Marten Hoffmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nice quote Simon,

What was the book and who is it by?

This is also interesting. It was on the net but now
has gone. It is by the author of kung-kung-Open ↗
foo.tv/

'The Dutch thrive on "gezelligheid". It is such a
highly valued and aspired concept that there is no
foreign word that equals it.

Sorry, bad news for you: the literal translation is
"fellowship".

We interrupt this message with the following: the literal
translation of 'gezelligheid' is not 'fellowship'. Being
Dutch, I should know ..... The description by the previous
poster is more accurate. 'Gezelligheid' is not
translatable (is that correct English?).

This is beginning to sound like the German claim that
"gemuetlich" (content) is untranslatable. In other words,
you are claiming that your nation has something that no
other has.

You should be aware that every nation has such a set of
self-myths.

So what's The Fellowship of the Ring called in Dutch?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Roughly, it means a warm, cosy and homely feeling that
you are doing the right thing by contributing to the
wellbeing of one and all.

Yes, indeed.

True.

In England this would probably be more likely to be
described as "parliamentarianism" :-(
--
"To live in San Francisco and just not care that there are
naked triathletes running across your lawn, that's just a
waste of exhibitionism."
- Kibo

In article <[email hidden]>,

Marten Hoffmann said:

We interrupt this message with the following: the literal
translation of 'gezelligheid' is not 'fellowship'. Being
Dutch, I should know .....

Not being dutch I wouldn't know. OTOH my knowledge of
other languages (excluding dutch) leads me to suggest
"companionship". But I also understand it's a word
that carries meaning over and above the literal to
native speakers.

I wonder if it's a rather good expression of something
that's well-known to open-source software developers?

--
Nick Kew

Mark South said:

"Marten Hoffmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Nice quote Simon,
>
> What was the book and who is it by?
>
> This is also interesting. It was on the net but now
> has gone. It is by the author of kung-kung-Open ↗
> foo.tv/
>
> 'The Dutch thrive on "gezelligheid". It is such a
> highly valued and aspired concept that there is no
> foreign word that equals it.

Sorry, bad news for you: the literal translation is
"fellowship".

We interrupt this message with the following: the literal
translation of 'gezelligheid' is not 'fellowship'. Being
Dutch, I should know ..... The description by the
previous poster is more accurate. 'Gezelligheid' is not
translatable (is that correct English?).

This is beginning to sound like the German claim that
"gemuetlich" (content) is untranslatable. In other words,
you are claiming that your nation has something that no
other has.

You should be aware that every nation has such a set of
self-myths.

So what's The Fellowship of the Ring called in Dutch?

I think it's 'de Reisgenoten' (travelling companions?)
bimbw.

I don't understand your reference to the German 'gemuetlich'
(content). 'Gemuetlich' often translates as 'cosy' or 'snug'
and isn't very different to gezellig although my German-
Dutch dictionary doesn't translate 'gemuetlich' as
'gezellig' or vice versa.

Translation isn't as simple as you imply. One-to-one
correspondence between words in different languages is often
lacking. This doesn't necessarily mean that one nation has
something another doesn't. It may just mean that speakers of
one language haven't found it necessary to invent a word to
communicate something represented by a single word in
another language.

Both the German words 'Schadenfreude' and 'Zeitgeist' have
been imported into English because there are no single word
equivalents.

--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "I've had a perfectly
wonderful evening. But this wasn't
it." -Groucho Marx www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nice quote Simon,

What was the book and who is it by?

It was this one. Actually there is a much better one that I
read in Holland when staying with friends, but I can't for
the life of me remember what it was called.

ovalbooks.comDutch.htmlOpen ↗

--
Simon M.

Simon Mason said:

It was this one. Actually there is a much better one that
I read in Holland when staying with friends, but I can't
for the life of me remember what it was called.

Roos gave me "The Undutchables".co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1888580224/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-
3724621-5367803) as a handy "user-manual"...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

It was this one. Actually there is a much better one
that I read in

Holland

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when staying with friends, but I can't for the life of
me remember what

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was called.

Roos gave me "The Undutchables"

(amazon.co.ukref=srOpen ↗
_aps_books_1_1/20 2-3724621-5367803)

Quoted message said:

as a handy "user-manual"...

That's the one! Thanks Peter - I've ordered a used one
just now :-)

--
Simon M.

Michael MacClancy:

Quoted message said:

Translation isn't as simple as you imply. One-to-one
correspondence between words in different languages is
often lacking.

I agree entirely, but it is partly down to cultural
differences - the reason there's no English word for
Schadenfreude is not because it's a concept we lack but
because our natural British reserve has always prevented us
talking about it, hence no need for the word. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Both the German words 'Schadenfreude' and 'Zeitgeist' have
been imported into English because there are no single
word equivalents.

Hmm. Zeitgeist is a word I could do with hearing a lot less
of.

d.

davek said:

Michael MacClancy:

Quoted message said:

Translation isn't as simple as you imply. One-to-one
correspondence between words in different languages is
often lacking.

I agree entirely, but it is partly down to cultural
differences - the reason there's no English word for
Schadenfreude is not because it's a concept we lack but
because our natural British reserve has always prevented
us talking about it, hence no need for the word. ;-)

But the Americans don't have a word for it either - and I
wouldn't say they are reserved ;-)

... although some people claim that 'epicaricacy' is an
English word with the same meaning as 'Schadenfreude'.

--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He loves nature in spite
of what it did to him." - Forrest Tucker
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

Mark South said:

So what's The Fellowship of the Ring called in Dutch?

I think it's left untranslated, but if not, NO WAY is it
called "Gezelligheid van de ring"...

Ah OK, I looked it up; it's called "De reisgenoten", and an
accepted more literal translation is "Gezelschap van de
Negen" (fellowship of (the) nine). A gezelschap can be
gezellig, but there are also lots of gezelschappen that
can't stand the word gezellig. Gezelligheid is often
associated with a middle-class or bourgeois attitude. Of
course, and as always, people with real class have no such
disdain for honest emotions.

"Marten Hoffmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

Goede Morgen :-)

Reading a book about Dutch culture last night there was
this passage

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dutch cycling.

simonmason.karoo.netzdutch.htmOpen ↗

Addition: there are now some 18 million bicycles in this
country......

There are 20 million bikes in the UK. The difference is -
you use them ;-)

--
Simon M.

Simon Mason said:

Quoted message said:

Addition: there are now some 18 million bicycles in this
country......

There are 20 million bikes in the UK. The difference is -
you use them ;-)

..and some 44M people.

In "]news:[email hidden],
Ewoud Dronkert <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

Quoted message said:

Addition: there are now some 18 million bicycles in this
country......

There are 20 million bikes in the UK. The difference is -
you use them ;-)

..and some 44M people.

Yes. There's 1016 bikes per 1000 inhabitants in the
Netherlands, compared to 200ish per 1000 in the UK. The UK's
bikes are considerably less underused than the bikes in
several other European countries, e.g. France (slightly
higher overall mileage but lower day to day usage),
Luxembourg, Spain, Portugal, Greece, however.

A

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Simon Mason said:

Quoted message said:

Addition: there are now some 18 million bicycles in this
country......

There are 20 million bikes in the UK. The difference is -
you use them ;-)

..and some 44M people.

Where?
--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He has no enemies, but
is intensely disliked by his friends." -Oscar Wilde
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

Michael MacClancy said:

Quoted message said:

..and some 44M people.

Quoted message said:

Where?

Is a bit wide of the mark... As of the 2001 census there
were 58,789,194 subdivided as England 49,138,831 (83.6 per
cent of the total population); Scotland 5,062,011 (8.6 per
cent); Wales 2,903,085 (4.9 per cent); Northern Ireland
1,685,267 (2.9 per cent).

But the higher figure makes our own cycle numbers even more
lamentable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗