Dura Ace Wheels

"Andy Birko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp wheels have
radialy laced drive side spokes and one cross non-
drive...comments?

-Andy B.

I think they are just copying Mavic who has been doing this
for a while. It was the only way that they could get as
little dish as possible. Imagine if they had to cross
w/those direct pull spokes! The wheel'd be like a stinking
umbrella!!!

Dave

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andy Birko said:

Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp wheels have
radialy laced drive side spokes and one cross non-
drive...comments?

My DA 9 speed wheels are like noodles...very flexy. Ksyrium
SSC SL's are noticibly stiffer and lighter. The DA's are
good for training as they're comfortable for long
rides...just very sketchy in a crit.

"onefred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andy Birko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NvKdnftnSLOVHcbdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp wheels
have radialy laced drive side spokes and one cross non-
drive...comments?

-Andy B.

I think they are just copying Mavic who has been doing
this for a while.

It

Quoted message said:

was the only way that they could get as little dish as
possible. Imagine

if

Quoted message said:

they had to cross w/those direct pull spokes! The wheel'd
be like a stinking umbrella!!!

I thought that word among the wheel nerds was that that's a
bad thing to do and part of the reason Spox failed so often.

"Andy Birko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"onefred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andy Birko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NvKdnftnSLOVHcbdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp wheels
have radialy

laced

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

drive side spokes and one cross non-drive...comments?

-Andy B.

I think they are just copying Mavic who has been doing
this for a while.

It

Quoted message said:

was the only way that they could get as little dish as
possible.

Imagine

Quoted message said:

if

Quoted message said:

they had to cross w/those direct pull spokes! The
wheel'd be like a stinking umbrella!!!

I thought that word among the wheel nerds was that that's
a bad thing to

do

Quoted message said:

and part of the reason Spox failed so often.

It is a bad thing to do w/traditional spokes, hubs and rims.
These boutique wheel manufacturers beef up all these
components to withstand the much higher spoke tension. If
you examine the hub, you will see that Shimano/Mavic really
could not have done it any other way. I'm sure that if they
could've, they would've avoided drive-side radial lacing.

I remember that the last generation of Shimano Dura-Ace
wheels used an innovative spoke in the rim's side wall
design. This seems like a superior design to me and I don't
know why they abandoned it on the new DA wheels. Maybe since
everyone in the Tour de France was using Mavic, Shimano
decided to copy them as much as possible so that we could
not tell from our television sets which was which???

Dave

watt-<< Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp wheels
have radialy laced drive side spokes and one cross non-
drive...comments? >><BR><BR>

Been this way for a while on the 7700 wheels as the great
big hub thingys that grab the spokes are so wide, they would
hit the cogset if crossed on the drive side. samo for mavic
Ksyrium and things like spinergy Spox. makes for propriatary
spokes and rims. New rim and hub are different from
7700/7711...Wonder how long shimano will have parts(like
rims and spokes) for these. Glad to see they went away from
the goofy, 'cross/into the side of the rim' stuff.

Anyway, makes for a heavy-ish hub/wheel that does nothing
better than a hand built wheelset using common parts and
costing 1/2 of these.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

So everyone in the bike engineering world knows nothing
except Peter -- if you can walk on water why do you waste
your time with bikes?

How about curing cancer? or if you have a free moment solve
the ozone problem.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

watt-<< Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp
wheels have radialy

laced

Quoted message said:

drive side spokes and one cross non-drive...comments?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Been this way for a while on the 7700 wheels as the great
big hub thingys

that

Quoted message said:

grab the spokes are so wide, they would hit the cogset if
crossed on the

drive

Quoted message said:

side. samo for mavic Ksyrium and things like spinergy
Spox. makes for propriatary spokes and rims. New rim and
hub are different from 7700/7711...Wonder how long shimano
will have parts(like rims and spokes)

for

Quoted message said:

these. Glad to see they went away from the goofy,
'cross/into the side of

the

Quoted message said:

rim' stuff.

Anyway, makes for a heavy-ish hub/wheel that does nothing
better than a

hand

Quoted message said:

built wheelset using common parts and costing 1/2 of
these.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

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In article <[email hidden]>,

JayofMontreal said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:20040320100230.07878.00000069@mb-
m11.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

watt-<< Anyone else notice that the new Dura Ace 10sp
wheels have radialy

laced

Quoted message said:

drive side spokes and one cross non-drive...comments?

Quoted message said:

><BR><BR>

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, makes for a heavy-ish hub/wheel that does
nothing better than a

hand

Quoted message said:

built wheelset using common parts and costing 1/2 of
these.

Quoted message said:

So everyone in the bike engineering world knows nothing
except Peter -- if you can walk on water why do you waste
your time with bikes?

How about curing cancer? or if you have a free moment
solve the ozone problem.

Actually, many people know this stuff, and they're quite
right. Note that Shimano and Peter have very different
perspectives on this stuff, and they can even both be
almost right.

First, Dura-Ace is Shimano's most boutique group. It's
intended for elite racers and those willing to pay for the
stuff elite racers use (a remarkably large group). The
wheels in particular emphasize aerodynamics to an obsessive
degree and are willing to commit a multitude of venial sins
to achieve these goals.

The problem is that for most riders, even most racers,
aerodynamics are not the most important attribute of a
wheel.

For Joe crit-racer, Cat 3, who has to choose between a third
set of wheels and food, a set of wheels can be built which
cost less, weigh the same or less, and will be much more
reliable (not requiring regular truing, not as prone to
breaking) than Dura-Ace wheels. The cost will be a very
small aerodynamic penalty (if any), one that probably will
never lose a race.

The irony is that in circumstances where aerodynamics really
matter (time trials, that day Joe is planning a truly epic
solo breakaway), there are probably other wheels available
that offer even better aerodynamics, maybe at the cost of
extra weight.

Shimano also has (dare I say it) a certain marketing need to
offer novelty. I think they do this for its own sake much
less than Peter might assert, but the new Dura-Ace group has
examples of real improvements (the integrated BB/crank
design), marginal improvements at minimal obvious cost (10
speeds), marginal improvements with real costs (lighter
freehub shell that precludes using non D-A10 HG cassettes),
and stuff that probably isn't an improvement for most riders
(D-A wheels).

So far behind the curve I still own 8-speed bikes,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club