Dura Ace 7900 levers (compatibility etc)

nurul said:

So we have ascertained that the 7900 2009 DA levers are compatible with the 7800 RD. I presume that they will function with the 7800 FD without any problems. And I presume they should function with DA 7800 calipers and Campag calipers in spite of the [censored] they spin you about cable pull etc etc blah blah.
So this is the deal:
Buy the 7800 group, sell the cset and bb to a friend as I already run a DA cransket. Sell the calipers and the 7800 levers. Retain my centaur calipers. Buy some new 7900 levers and bob's your uncle. Can anyone see any possbile pit falls anywhere?? Peter, what's ur take on this???
Also what'sthe max I should ask for when selling the DA 7800 calipers (new in box) and the DA 7800 levers (new in box) with cables?? What would the most you would pay?? I know the cheapest price from the local LBS is 440 euros for the two pieces.

According to Velonews, 7900 levers are NOT compatible with 7800 front derailleurs nor 7800 or any other caliper.

New 7900 levers are $700 in the US, BTW. For that $ you could buy SuperRecord ERGO and Centaur rear derailleur and have money left over for a nice dinner.

First winter ride today- about 90km tempo riding with lots of short hills. Onme of our cfolleagues, who runs a 7800 group on a campag Record cset had just installed some 7900 levers for the ride. He said it shifted and braked perfectly-even better than with the 7800. Just got off the phone from him and he has confirmed he is happy. I think I will go with my project. 7900 levers on 7800 group with centaur calipers. Watch this space.....

ok so it's official. My six13 will be ready on Friday evening and this is the following set up:

7900 brake/gear levers (whooopeeeeeee 🙂 )
Campag centaur calipers (2005)
7800 front
7800 rear
DA 52-38 170MM
7800 cassette 12-25
DA chain

7900 levers are as rare as hen's teeth. I managed to get a pair from LBS. So let's see if we can prove VELONEWS wrong and shame Campy and SHimano (hehehe). Fingers crossed all will work sweetly but there is no reason why it should cos my friend tested his DA 7800 group on Sunday with 7900 levers and it was sweeeeet. For the weightweenies, wil lsave exactly 100g over a veloce 13-26 cassette, 60g on the mechs, and I think the new 7900 levers are about 50g heavier than Record Ergopower Carbon. In balance a saving of 100g. I had the 7900s in my hands today and just gripping them wanting me to get out on the climbs in Mallorca in March and attack my colleagues. 😄

Presumably you don't mind the absence of any quick release mechanisms that would be found on the Campag shifters or Shimano brakes....

milliedog said:

Presumably you don't mind the absence of any quick release mechanisms that would be found on the Campag shifters or Shimano brakes....

Very valid point. If I count on one hand the amount of times I have needed the QR as a result of crash or wheel impact damage then I wouldn't get as far as one finger in 20 yrs. It might be a pain in the ass getting a wheel in and out but the tyres normally squeeze in. At the moment it's merely a cost cutting measure to get the groupset to half pay for itself. I am sure I will pick up a pair of DA calipers once I have paid off this new mini project. It will just be fascinating to see how well a campag caliper functions on a shimano STI unit.

The bike is ready!!!!!!!
I went out for a spin on it along the bike lane near the LBS.The 7900 levers are so comfy. I am comparing to 2008 Record QS levers. Once the SLR cables have stretched I will be able to fully appreciate solid, progressive braking. The Campag Centaur calipers work well. Now it's just getting used to a new shifting feel/tact. The front 7900 has that two position "CLACK" which I am familiar with as I sometimes jump onto my friends' bikes. The rear shifting is a bit slow compared to my Campag set up. But I am sure this is cos everything needs to bed in I suppose. The levers are very tight and stiff compared to 7800. The downshifts (to a larger sprocket) appeared to be significantly slower than upshits (to a smaller sprocket). Is this normal for DA.
I will be giving the bike a full test on about 100km of hilly testing terrain on Saturday morning. Until then...... (regards to Peter..u have disappeared!!)

Just got in from a sunny 15c 90km ride to Sitges and back along the coast road.This is the deal
The braking is very powerful (7900 levers on 2005 Campag Centaur non skeletal calipers). So no gripes there in terms of compatibility issues.
Shifting. I forgot that Shimano offers one "clack" trim position. At the moment there is chain rub in the obvious places (12-25 cassette):

52-25 and 38-25 (xx)

However, there is chain rub in the 52-23, 21, 19.
There is also chain rub in the 38-13.
As Shimano does not offer the 4 position Campay trim feature then I presume I will have to tweak the front mech and let the cables bed in. Or, and this is for all those 7800 users, do you have similar chain rub problems in the gears mentioned other than in the two extreme crosscain postions (xx)?
Aside from the chain rub issue, the quality of the shifting was agile and silent as expected from Dura Ace. The lever hood are wonderfully comfy and that third poistion where you can grip the peaks and be standing as you maintain the power up an extended climb is fab which you can't do onpre 2009 Campag Ergo.

nurul said:

Just got in from a sunny 15c 90km ride to Sitges and back along the coast road.This is the deal
The braking is very powerful (7900 levers on 2005 Campag Centaur non skeletal calipers). So no gripes there in terms of compatibility issues.
Shifting. I forgot that Shimano offers one "clack" trim position. At the moment there is chain rub in the obvious places (12-25 cassette):

52-25 and 38-25 (xx)

However, there is chain rub in the 52-23, 21, 19.
There is also chain rub in the 38-13.
As Shimano does not offer the 4 position Campay trim feature then I presume I will have to tweak the front mech and let the cables bed in. Or, and this is for all those 7800 users, do you have similar chain rub problems in the gears mentioned other than in the two extreme crosscain postions (xx)?
Aside from the chain rub issue, the quality of the shifting was agile and silent as expected from Dura Ace. The lever hood are wonderfully comfy and that third poistion where you can grip the peaks and be standing as you maintain the power up an extended climb is fab which you can't do onpre 2009 Campag Ergo.

No front derailleur trim in 7900 levers(even sram has trim for the FD) and only 1 or 2(not 3) downshift options. 7800 and sram and Campagnolo have 3(to bigger cogs, lower gear). Campag has multiple upshift to higher gear, something neither sram nor any shimano has, BTW.

I expected better from these $700 levers.

There is a FD trim stop in the 7900 levers for the small ring. There is not one for the big ring, which is fine since it isn't required if the FD is setup correctly. I don't need the small ring trim on my bike. I can get as far as 39x14 on a 12-25 cassette without having to need to trim the FD. I could go into the 39x13 without needing trim, but the chain hits against the pickup pins on the side of the big ring and makes too much racket.

Any one knows that the 7800 had a one clack trim and that was what Campag users loved aboput Ergo and its 4 trim levers. HEard some SRAm groups last year had no trim. However the DA 7800 and 7900 trim is only for the small ring. It's a shame that it doesn't allow backwards trim when in the big ring. I have heard that the 7900 shifters used with the new 7900 front mech eliminates the need to trim If that is the case then it will be my next purchase. The downside of having 4 trim postition on the Ergos is that there is a damn long throw still (at least until 2008). The upside, of course of a one position trim is a damn fast front [censored]. Those springs in those 7900 are really tight and for some reason it's quite hard to go from 38-12 to 53-12. It require quite a once over it bounces back a bit a then sits in place. Maybe some tweaking and the cables bedding in will sort all that out. Next test tomorrow.

Peter@vecchios said:

No front derailleur trim in 7900 levers(even sram has trim for the FD) and only 1 or 2(not 3) downshift options. 7800 and sram and Campagnolo have 3(to bigger cogs, lower gear). Campag has multiple upshift to higher gear, something neither sram nor any shimano has, BTW.

I expected better from these $700 levers.

7800 and 7900 have trim. However Competitive cyclist say that 7900 levers, fmech and crankset used in combo means that chain rub is eliminated in evem¡n the most cross chain angles such as the 53-25 for example. I have been readjusting the high low screws on my mech for more experimentation tomorrow. The LBS had not set up the right hand parameter screw correctly nor had they set the correct distance from the inner front mech plate to the chain in the 39-25. Why do LBSs always not do this correctly????? 😠

I always had trim on both the small ring and big ring with 7800 levers and FDs.

Great News. After a 60 second tweak of the front mech last night I have resolved all trim issues. Can the LBS not get that sorted before the bike rolls out??? There is zero chain rub apart from when in the 39-12 where che chain rubs against the inside of big ring which one of the contributors this thread also commented against. Even in the 52-25 there is no or no noticeable chain rub. Wonder what would happen if I put on a 7900 front mech??
Ok here are the intial negative points: to go from the 12 to the 25 needs up to 5 lever throws. But that is nothing new. Also the springs in the left STI is so stiff that it needs a lot of force to go to the big ring. I suppose that will get better as I run in the mechs, cables and shifters. I dumped the chain once going to the small ring. A colleague was riding with me with full 7800 and his 7800s were shorter and less comfortbale. However the rubber on the 7900 is smooth whereas on the 7800s it is rougher offering a more pleasant hold and less chance of slipping. Compared to Record QS Ergo (or Ergo in general) the DA levers are long. 2 finger braking is more difficult on DA levers.
All in all an excellent reintro to DA 7900/7800. Now what do I do with the old Record Ergo [censored], veloce cassette, DA chain, chorus front and rear mechs?? 🙄

nurul said:

7800 and 7900 have trim. However Competitive cyclist say that 7900 levers, fmech and crankset used in combo means that chain rub is eliminated in evem¡n the most cross chain angles such as the 53-25 for example. I have been readjusting the high low screws on my mech for more experimentation tomorrow. The LBS had not set up the right hand parameter screw correctly nor had they set the correct distance from the inner front mech plate to the chain in the 39-25. Why do LBSs always not do this correctly????? 😠

No, 7900 do not have trim, meaning the ability to move the fder over/inward a wee bit when on the big ring and bigger cogs. The Waterford we had to look at had all 7900 stuff on it and I could rub the fder on the chain at will.

maybe Spainish LBS' don't but 'some' do.

Peter@vecchios said:

No, 7900 do not have trim, meaning the ability to move the fder over/inward a wee bit when on the big ring and bigger cogs. The Waterford we had to look at had all 7900 stuff on it and I could rub the fder on the chain at will.

maybe Spainish LBS' don't but 'some' do.

Didn't quite understand ur thread about the Waterford. What are u trying to say when u write:
"I could rub the fder on the chain at will. "

From what I have used, neither the 7800 nor the 7900 have inward trim when on the big ring and moving back up the sprockets (towards the large sprocket) because DA have set up their groups so even on the large ring-large sprocket trim is not necessary but you shld know that shouldnt you Pete being the perfect LBS and you could have mentioned something way back in this thread about DA not having chain rub.
I think it is great that you are the perfect LBS but it is irrelevant as you are not my LBS. It would be great if u were. I have been walking off with so called "serviced" bikes dozens of times in different shops in the UK and Spain where the job was not simply done:
1> Asked for a DA cranket to be put on. Get bike home and crankset is on so tight that take it to another shop to have it loosened in 2008. In the second and third shop they don-t realise that the reason why the chain is sticking in between the rings when going from large to small ring. It is I who suggests that the FSA inner ring is creating the problem. We change the ring thanks to me.
2> Pamplona 2000= Spend 2000 pounds on a new road bike. LBS sets up stem so badly that when back in the UK LBS says that my life was in danger cos of various problems associated with cowboy setting up of this contact area.
3> Countless examples of an LBS supposedly setting up or servicing drive train but leaving the bike with a painfully short chain and mechs well out of adjustment.
4> LBS in the UK whose mechanics used to take bikes in for a service, do nothing to it apart from a polish, give it back and charge customer. Happened to me and I threatened them. They quickly sorted me out with a discount groupset.
So Pete, it's not the exception its the rule. It's very sad but I am sure that there are many LBS mechanics and repsonsible owners who do offer excellent service. When I take my bike in for something I normally end up spending time returning it for it to be done properly or finshing off the fine tuning myself. How? Cos as a 15yr old kid I used to mess about with bikes, building and rebuilding drivetrains, I wld touch anything apart from hset and bb.

nurul said:

Didn't quite understand ur thread about the Waterford. What are u trying to say when u write:
"I could rub the fder on the chain at will. "

From what I have used, neither the 7800 nor the 7900 have inward trim when on the big ring and moving back up the sprockets (towards the large sprocket) because DA have set up their groups so even on the large ring-large sprocket trim is not necessary but you shld know that shouldnt you Pete being the perfect LBS and you could have mentioned something way back in this thread about DA not having chain rub.
I think it is great that you are the perfect LBS but it is irrelevant as you are not my LBS. It would be great if u were. I have been walking off with so called "serviced" bikes dozens of times in different shops in the UK and Spain where the job was not simply done:
1> Asked for a DA cranket to be put on. Get bike home and crankset is on so tight that take it to another shop to have it loosened in 2008. In the second and third shop they don-t realise that the reason why the chain is sticking in between the rings when going from large to small ring. It is I who suggests that the FSA inner ring is creating the problem. We change the ring thanks to me.
2> Pamplona 2000= Spend 2000 pounds on a new road bike. LBS sets up stem so badly that when back in the UK LBS says that my life was in danger cos of various problems associated with cowboy setting up of this contact area.
3> Countless examples of an LBS supposedly setting up or servicing drive train but leaving the bike with a painfully short chain and mechs well out of adjustment.
4> LBS in the UK whose mechanics used to take bikes in for a service, do nothing to it apart from a polish, give it back and charge customer. Happened to me and I threatened them. They quickly sorted me out with a discount groupset.
So Pete, it's not the exception its the rule. It's very sad but I am sure that there are many LBS mechanics and repsonsible owners who do offer excellent service. When I take my bike in for something I normally end up spending time returning it for it to be done properly or finshing off the fine tuning myself. How? Cos as a 15yr old kid I used to mess about with bikes, building and rebuilding drivetrains, I wld touch anything apart from hset and bb.

In a nut shell. Modern shift levers have lost some of their function, shimano particularly. Left now has no trim and left has 1 less gear you can select with a sweep of the big lever. It seems everything is about weight, much less about function.

Poor bike shops everywhere. Good ones as well, just like Ferrari, Alfa, and Ducati mechanics, gotta find them.

Peter@vecchios said:

In a nut shell. Modern shift levers have lost some of their function, shimano particularly. Left now has no trim and left has 1 less gear you can select with a sweep of the big lever. It seems everything is about weight, much less about function.

Poor bike shops everywhere. Good ones as well, just like Ferrari, Alfa, and Ducati mechanics, gotta find them.

But when DA went STI in about 1990, I believe it didn't have the trim then. DA never had it. Campy does, which is why some prefer Campy.
Have u tried the full 7900 to see if there is zero trim on it???
Maybe you could give us a review of it?? Most , if not all of my MTB buddies would never dream of putting Campag on their road bikes beacause for them it is not synoynmous with function. for them Shimano means function.
But wasn't Shimano aim this year to give the consumer what it wanted such as compact crankset (which is what they should have done ages ago), concealed cables, more cassette ratios such as an 11-28 <so that Alienator could get out of his garage> carbon, even lighter components, even better braking???? Isn't function about something like eliminating chain rub??
I will be retesting the Addict which as the following group: Record Ergo 2008, centaur carbon mech, centar CT fmech, DA chain, veloce cassette, Ultegra SL c/set, chorus non skeletal calipers, to see what I prefer.

nurul said:

But when DA went STI in about 1990, I believe it didn't have the trim then. DA never had it. Campy does, which is why some prefer Campy.
Have u tried the full 7900 to see if there is zero trim on it???
Maybe you could give us a review of it?? Most , if not all of my MTB buddies would never dream of putting Campag on their road bikes beacause for them it is not synoynmous with function. for them Shimano means function.
But wasn't Shimano aim this year to give the consumer what it wanted such as compact crankset (which is what they should have done ages ago), concealed cables, more cassette ratios such as an 11-28 <so that Alienator could get out of his garage> carbon, even lighter components, even better braking???? Isn't function about something like eliminating chain rub??
I will be retesting the Addict which as the following group: Record Ergo 2008, centaur carbon mech, centar CT fmech, DA chain, veloce cassette, Ultegra SL c/set, chorus non skeletal calipers, to see what I prefer.

First gen DA, out in late 80s, did have trim in the left lever. 7900 does not have trim in the left lever. I think it does not because the innards are a derivative of MTB sti 'guts', and the LH MTB lever has no trim.

Peter@vecchios said:

First gen DA, out in late 80s, did have trim in the left lever. 7900 does not have trim in the left lever. I think it does not because the innards are a derivative of MTB sti 'guts', and the LH MTB lever has no trim.

The 7900 left STI lever does have trim, but for the small ring only.