Dura Ace 7700 BB report

bbear-<< After only about 1200-1500 miles over a 7 or 8 month period, this
sucker was
very gritty. The cranks still spun freely, but you could almost hear that sand
polishing the races. >><BR><BR>

The 'seals' that are aroiund the BB spindle and that spin with it seem to
channel stuff into the BB.

This thing needs regular OVH to ensure any kind of longevity. A ultegra BB
replacement is recommended after this one is history. Buy a few as the Octalink
is a-goin' away.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

To protect my DA BB from water and crud, I use a Grease injector to
run a bead of grease around the BB spindle where it enters the BB.
After a rainy ride or once a month, I'll use a Q-Tip to remove the old
grease. It takes about 5 minutes to clean out and regrease the
spindle. It's easy to do, even with the cranks on.

The 7700 is definitely a silly departure from the robust 6500 sealed
cartride design. Poor seals, and almost a homage to vintage BB's requiring
adjustable cup adjustment straight out of the 1950's.
Get a 6500 asap; the 70 grams extra makes little difference.

--
--------------------------
Andre Charlebois
AGC-PC support
http://agc-pc.tripod.com
BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+

"BBear505" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd like to give my 2 cents worth on the Dura Ace 7700 bottom bracket. I
installed a new one on my Festina S-Works, compact geometry. I had read a

lot

Quoted message said:

of mixed reviews about durability and maintenace required.

I followed the advice of Peter from Vecchio's very explicitly. I had my

BB

Quoted message said:

shell faced and squared up. I cleaned the threads with kerosene and a
toothbrush. I even used anti-seize on the threads and had all the right

tools.

Quoted message said:

I tightened the adjustable cup just until all play was out of the right

side

Quoted message said:

crank arms when rocking it in and out. Was smooth as silk. Did not think
about it till I had take apart my bike due to frame crack.

After only about 1200-1500 miles over a 7 or 8 month period, this sucker

was

Quoted message said:

very gritty. The cranks still spun freely, but you could almost hear that

sand

Quoted message said:

polishing the races. I don't ride in rain with this bike, but I do ride

along

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the ocean where the wind kicks up the sand. Do you guys have similiar
experiences? Any tips to prolong in between cleaning? Any grease

suggestions?

Quoted message said:

thanks,
Ernie

Originally posted by Andre The 7700 is definitely a silly departure from
the robust 6500 sealed cartride design. Poor seals, and almost a homage
to vintage BB's requiring adjustable cup adjustment straight out of the
1950's. Get a 6500 asap; the 70 grams extra makes little difference.

--
--------------------------
Andre Charlebois AGC-PC support http://agc-pc.tripod.com/http://agc-
pc.tripod.com BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+

This is a statement coming from someone who has never used a 7700
BB.. it is a FAR superiour BB for anyone who wants a BB that will
last forever

1) it is fully rebuildable/serviceable
2) ALL parts are individually replaceable
3) can be tightened when it comes loose

all these things are NOT possible with any other BB. If you are
mechanically inept, then this BB is not for you (or if your unwilling to
take it to get serviced), however, before saying that it is a poor BB -
be sure to have used the product and KNOW it. Ignorant opinions are not
tolerated.

--

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

. Buy a few as the Octalink
is a-goin' away.

Now what?

Quoted message said:

This is a statement coming from someone who has never used a 7700
BB.. it is a FAR superiour BB for anyone who wants a BB that will
last forever

You've never used one? Oh, the joys you're missing!

Quoted message said:

1) it is fully rebuildable/serviceable

True. You can take it apart every month, if need be, and clean everything
up, regrease & reinstall. Do this enough times and one of those times
you're going to find your crank removing threads don't like you anymore.

Quoted message said:

2) ALL parts are individually replaceable

While it's true that you can actually buy the individual races that float on
the axle, should you *need* to a couple times per year? Is this really an
advantage over a unit that virtually never requires servicing because
nothing wears out?

Quoted message said:

3) can be tightened when it comes loose

But not without removing the cranks, which, as pointed out previously, may
eventually cause failure of the threads if done often enough. Also,
adjustment of bottom brackets (or any standard bearing setup, whether it's a
hub, bottom bracket or old-style headset) requires a bit of a feel for how
it should be... some people have a rough time with that. Cartridge BBs
require only a torque wrench if you want to do it perfectly, or none at all
if you're reasonably adept.

Quoted message said:

all these things are NOT possible with any other BB. If you are
mechanically inept, then this BB is not for you (or if your unwilling to
take it to get serviced), however, before saying that it is a poor BB -
be sure to have used the product and KNOW it. Ignorant opinions are not
tolerated.

Actually, those things were possible with most older-style bottom brackets.
Many were excellent; the old Campy Nuovo Record bottom brackets were very
durable (I still have one in my rain bike). The Shimano 7700, on the other
hand, is very fragile in terms of the durability of the bearing surfaces.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

kwalters-<< Buy a few as the Octalink

Quoted message said:

is a-goin' away.

Now what? >><BR><BR>

7700 for double out of production followed by 6500 in 2005(about October, I'd
say) followed by 5500. XTR, XT and LX are also history. shimano wants you to
'upgrade' to their new 'standard' of one piece cranks($300-$400) when you $50
BB goes south.

Same for 6500, 7700 right shifters, etc.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

To add a few things MikeJ said-<< True. You can take it apart every month, if
need be, and clean everything
up, regrease & reinstall. >><BR><BR>

We charge an extra $20 for the DA/XTR OVH cuz it takes so damn long.

<< 2) ALL parts are individually replaceable

While it's true that you can actually buy the individual races that float on
the axle, s >><BR><BR>

Yep, you can get the needle bearings but only WITH the cup, try to find these
anywhere...

<< > 3) can be tightened when it comes loose >><BR><BR>

Yep, when the races go south, it gets loose..A well made BB, adjusted correctly
the first time shouldn't do this.

<< If you are

Quoted message said:

mechanically inept, then this BB is not for you (or if your unwilling to
take it to get serviced), however, before saying that it is a poor BB -
be sure to have used the product and KNOW it. Ignorant opinions are not
tolerated. >><BR><BR>

I guess honing your skills on this crappy BB will make you a better wrench. The
people that participate regularly on the NG have just a wee bit of experience.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

This thing needs regular OVH to ensure any kind of longevity. A ultegra BB
replacement is recommended after this one is history. Buy a few as the Octalink
is a-goin' away.

I believe I remember the guy who built up my bike telling me that the
Ultegra bottom bracket is better than the DuraAce.

Dave

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

... You can take it apart every month, if need be, and clean everything
up, regrease & reinstall. Do this enough times and one of those times
you're going to find your crank removing threads don't like you anymore.

I am not a fan of this BB neither but I follow the suggestion of the
US Postal wrench ... the trick is to leave the fixed cup on the frame.
Remove the rest of the pieces (cage bearings, axle, cup can be cleaned
in a solvent tank. Be sure to add plenty of grease upon re-install.
For me, what other BB that is dirt cheap, world class light and rigid
as hell? None!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... You can take it apart every month, if need be, and clean everything
up, regrease & reinstall. Do this enough times and one of those times
you're going to find your crank removing threads don't like you anymore.

I am not a fan of this BB neither but I follow the suggestion of the
US Postal wrench ... the trick is to leave the fixed cup on the frame.
Remove the rest of the pieces (cage bearings, axle, cup can be cleaned
in a solvent tank. Be sure to add plenty of grease upon re-install.
For me, what other BB that is dirt cheap, world class light and rigid
as hell? None!

It's the threads in the crank that I'm worried about, not the frame. And
yes, the DuraAce BB is relatively inexpensive, pretty light and rigid. But
right now I'm trying one of the FSA ISIS units, and that fits similar
parameters. Time will tell how reliable it is.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

7700 for double out of production followed by 6500 in 2005(about October,

I'd

Quoted message said:

say) followed by 5500. XTR, XT and LX are also history. shimano wants you

to

Quoted message said:

'upgrade' to their new 'standard' of one piece cranks($300-$400) when you

$50

Quoted message said:

BB goes south.

Where's the source for your claims on the mountain stuff, just out of
curiosity?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

phil-<< Where's the source for your claims on the mountain stuff, just out of
curiosity? >><BR><BR>

Wayne Stetina. He was a bit dismayed about the elimination of the XTR/XT/LX
BB..three BBs that are matched only to a specific crank. At least road cranks
can be used with other BBs. Not so with the three MTB cranks.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It's the threads in the crank that I'm worried about, not the frame. And
yes, the DuraAce BB is relatively inexpensive, pretty light and rigid. But
right now I'm trying one of the FSA ISIS units, and that fits similar
parameters. Time will tell how reliable it is.

How about trying this since I don't have one to prove ... take a DA
triple BB, remove the axle and replace with a 6500 double axle. I am
guessing the profile of the Ultegra axle will fit. If it works, you
can have cake and eat it too (sealed bearings along with the alloy
cups of the DA triple for lightness).

I have used a 7700 BB for over 3 years without any problems. When I
first heard of this problem, I immediately got nervous and took the
thing apart after 6 months of hard riding, expecting to find it junked.
Nothing was wrong, only a bit of displaced grease.

I cleaned the bearings and repacked. I haven't opened it since and its
doing fine.

The one thing I did? Followed the instructions. Too many bike wrenches
ignore the fine print.

--

Mike Jacoubowsk said:

Quoted message said:

This is a statement coming from someone who has never used a 7700
BB.. it is a FAR superiour BB for anyone who wants a BB that will
last forever

You've never used one? Oh, the joys you're missing!

Quoted message said:

1) it is fully rebuildable/serviceable

True. You can take it apart every month, if need be, and clean
everything up, regrease & reinstall. Do this enough times and one of
those times you're going to find your crank removing threads don't like
you anymore.

Quoted message said:

2) ALL parts are individually replaceable

While it's true that you can actually buy the individual races that
float on the axle, should you *need* to a couple times per year? Is this
really an advantage over a unit that virtually never requires servicing
because nothing wears out?

Quoted message said:

3) can be tightened when it comes loose

But not without removing the cranks, which, as pointed out previously,
may eventually cause failure of the threads if done often enough. Also,
adjustment of bottom brackets (or any standard bearing setup, whether
it's a hub, bottom bracket or old-style headset) requires a bit of a
feel for how it should be... some people have a rough time with that.
Cartridge BBs require only a torque wrench if you want to do it
perfectly, or none at all if you're reasonably adept.

Quoted message said:

all these things are NOT possible with any other BB. If you are
mechanically inept, then this BB is not for you (or if your unwilling
to take it to get serviced), however, before saying that it is a poor
BB - be sure to have used the product and KNOW it. Ignorant opinions
are not tolerated.

Actually, those things were possible with most older- style bottom
brackets. Many were excellent; the old Campy Nuovo Record bottom
brackets were very durable (I still have one in my rain bike). The
Shimano 7700, on the other hand, is very fragile in terms of the
durability of the bearing surfaces.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h-
ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike, if your messing up threads with taking them on and off, then you
might want to take a mechanics course - threads will not deteorate with
time, only with misinstallation / a bad mechanic.

I've been wrenching bikes for 12 years and have NEVER had a thread fail
on me due to time, only due hack installation.

--

(Richard Chan) said:

For me, what other BB that is dirt cheap, world class light and rigid
as hell? None!

http://amclassic.com/BBs.html

140g and no retarded monkey business like 175g Dura Ace. It uses an
ISIS spline so the BB + cranks should cost _less_ than DA even though
the BB costs more.

FSA Energy cranks, for example, cost at least $100 less than DA and
should be significantly stiffer, since they have a hollow core much
bigger than the linguini-sized void in Shimano's "hollow" cranks.

Chalo Colina

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Richard Chan) said:

For me, what other BB that is dirt cheap, world class light and rigid
as hell? None!

http://amclassic.com/BBs.html

140g and no retarded monkey business like 175g Dura Ace. It uses an
ISIS spline so the BB + cranks should cost _less_ than DA even though
the BB costs more.

FSA Energy cranks, for example, cost at least $100 less than DA and
should be significantly stiffer, since they have a hollow core much
bigger than the linguini-sized void in Shimano's "hollow" cranks.

Chalo Colina

I am not sure which part of dirt cheap, WW light and rigid you don't
understand.

As far as FSA Energy cranks, I don't know what they are and don't
really bother to find out. if you have data to show that they are
indeed stiffer then 7700 or 7800. I would love to see them. Of course,
if they pass the "Chalo stump test" (full up and down stump onto
pedals sprint from stand still), I would take that too.

Richard Chan said:

[email hidden] (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Richard Chan) said:

For me, what other BB that is dirt cheap, world class light and
rigid as hell? None!

http://amclassic.com/BBs.htmlhttp://amclassic.com/BBs.html

140g and no retarded monkey business like 175g Dura Ace. It uses an
ISIS spline so the BB + cranks should cost _less_ than DA even though
the BB costs more.

FSA Energy cranks, for example, cost at least $100 less than DA and
should be significantly stiffer, since they have a hollow core much
bigger than the linguini-sized void in Shimano's "hollow" cranks.

Chalo Colina

FSA might look stiff but real world tests prove otherwise. Why? Its the
nature of woven composites. Weaving a fiber bends it into many s-curves.
When tensile loads are applied, these bends straighten and visa versa
for compressive loads.

Zipp wheels has a much better explaination of this subject. And Biketest
has the testing to show the DA is stiffer than the FSA.

--