Dumbass rules

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The USCF guy is present and conducting the race. I'm not sure that means it's officially
sanctioned. It's a weekly series intended mainly for training, with new rider outreach a
secondary goal.

The USCF rule about covering shoulders is stupid. But it's not the only stupid "uniform" rule I've
encountered in athletics of all kinds. The alleged justification I was told was that a fall on the
hot asphalt could cause burns. The obligatory retort is why aren't we required to wear
full-coverage leathers?

I did talk to the dude in charge before the race, which is where he probably espied my hairy toes.
He mentioned that he pays out tons of money for liability insurance. I assume he either knows his
policy doesn't cover sandals, or he doesn't want to take the liability risk. Doesn't matter, he's
Gawd of the race.

You really have to be kidding. Is this Andrew or Palachick attempting the ultimate troll? The shoes
are a safety issue and since the USCF carries racing insurance for you; it's likely somewhat a legal
issue with their insurance carrier. The sleeveless jersey issue is somewhat for protection but also
(I believe) etiquette. It used to be that you couldn't wear anything but black shorts in a USCF
race. Someone told me that was so you could 'pee' on the bike without it showing...never bought
that. It's a little like wearing a collared shirt on the golf course or white on the tennis courts.
A sleevelss jersey doesn't fit the bill. It's not stupid and as someone else said, if you think you
look good in a sleeveless jersey maybe your mirro is broken. I believe the sanctioning body is
trying to make a good impression on the public and make it more pleasant to watch and attract
younger riders. I guaran-damn-tee you that I wouldn't want to be a part of a bunch of dorky cyclists
riding around in sleevelss jerseys and sandals. You have to be kidding...aren't you?

Danny Callen

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The USCF guy is present and conducting the race. I'm not sure that means it's officially
sanctioned. It's a weekly series intended mainly for training, with new rider outreach a
secondary goal.

The USCF rule about covering shoulders is stupid. But it's not the only stupid "uniform" rule
I've encountered in athletics of all kinds. The alleged justification I was told was that a fall
on the hot asphalt could cause burns. The obligatory retort is why aren't we required to wear
full-coverage leathers?

I did talk to the dude in charge before the race, which is where he probably espied my hairy
toes. He mentioned that he pays out tons of money for liability insurance. I assume he either
knows his policy doesn't cover sandals, or he doesn't want to take the liability risk. Doesn't
matter, he's Gawd of the race.

You really have to be kidding. Is this Andrew or Palachick attempting the ultimate troll? The
shoes are a safety issue and since the USCF carries racing insurance for you; it's likely somewhat
a legal issue with their insurance carrier. The sleeveless jersey issue is somewhat for protection
but also (I believe) etiquette. It used to be that you couldn't wear anything but black shorts in
a USCF race. Someone told me that was so you could 'pee' on the bike without it showing...never
bought that. It's a little like wearing a collared shirt on the golf course or white on the tennis
courts. A sleevelss jersey doesn't fit the bill. It's not stupid

and

Quoted message said:

as someone else said, if you think you look good in a sleeveless jersey maybe your mirro is
broken. I believe the sanctioning body is trying to

make

Quoted message said:

a good impression on the public and make it more pleasant to watch and attract younger riders. I
guaran-damn-tee you that I wouldn't want to be a part of a bunch of dorky cyclists riding around
in sleevelss jerseys and sandals. You have to be kidding...aren't you?

Danny Callen

I had one of the officials at the Encino velodrome ask me to zip up my skinsuit one of my last
times up there. Said they were trying to project a "better image." Could be that's what they're
trying to do too.

If you're that adamant about wearing SPD sandals, why not just wear the lycra shoe covers over your
sandals next time you race? Betcha it works.

Personally, I like having my toes in shoes when they're around lots of whirling wheels/spokes.
Better to wear the shoes and keep my toes in case something does go wrong...

Mike

Of course I'll wear a sleeved jersey next time, but I think the sleeveless ones look fine or better
with the right arms sticking out of them. (I'm not some skinny climber. When the road tilts up, I go
real slow, despite the fact that nearly all my riding is on hills.)

And of course I'll either bring my clunky mtb shoes or buy racing shoes for next time. Heck, I HAVE
mtb shoes because I don't want my toes getting mangled by low roots or branches on tight
singletrack. I wear the sandals on the road bike because they're (thermally) cool and the threat of
getting involved with sharp moving parts is miniscule. This does change in a race situation, so
those of you who argue the safety issue are duly acknowleged.

I generally follow rules. I don't like every rule I follow, and some of those I really don't like, I
don't follow.

[censored] about rules is a fine American/human tradition. I didn't argue with the powers that be, I
just got my refunded entry fee and whined about it here.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Of course I'll wear a sleeved jersey next time, but I think the sleeveless ones look fine or
better with the right arms sticking out of them.

<snip>

Do you beat your wife?

"Raptor" <me@@attbi.com...

Quoted message said:

I was about to grace the bike racing world with my lard-ass, hairy-leg, grizzled presence for the
first time in 15 years. Having waited an hour for the 1-4s to race, I collected with the other
freds at the start line, only to be informed:

A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.

Are you reveling in your FREDness? (Fred == Dork)

Quoted message said:

Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible rationale that I can think of. If we
want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk, who cares?

Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really like
my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's a
slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy. I won't
dare raise my hands in victory as I cross the line (first).

No disrespect intended here, um...you really don't have any shoes to wear while riding other than
open toed sandals? Send me your address and shoe size and I will send you a pair. You can even have
a short sleeved jersey (if you need it).

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kyle Legate said:

Raptor said:

Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really
like my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's
a slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy.

You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cycling shoes.

Well, you've sure got a point there. Since I'm not inclined to spring for racing shoes at this
point (money), it looks like a choice between two goofies, though the choice has really been
made for me.

As long as I'm fast, no scratch that, as long as I have fun, I don't much care how I look. If I
could get Frog cleats on Converses, I'd try Heather's suggestion.

But the cover-the-shoulder thing is still just silly, and I think you know it.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Be sure and give us a race report next time you try. I've just got to read your account.

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was about to grace the bike racing world with my lard-ass,

hairy-leg,

Quoted message said:

grizzled presence for the first time in 15 years. Having waited an

hour

Quoted message said:

for the 1-4s to race, I collected with the other freds at the start line, only to be informed:

A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this

time.

Quoted message said:

B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide

this

Quoted message said:

time.

Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible

rationale

Quoted message said:

that I can think of. If we want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk,
who cares?

Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the

presumed

Quoted message said:

reasoning. I really like my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I
meet. I guess there's a slightly higher

risk

Quoted message said:

of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate flipped on its head,
only I won't die if my tootsies get

ripped

Quoted message said:

up. But now I have to either spring for new racing shoes, or wear

my

Quoted message said:

hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy. I won't dare

raise

Quoted message said:

my hands in victory as I cross the line (first).

I avenged myself by doing 23-24 mph on the 15 mile ride home. Those lusers gained a reprieve, but
I will be back!

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to

protect

Quoted message said:

our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of
Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"heather halvorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"But I suspect you don't like bicycle racing so much also because its so

structured/controlled.

Quoted message said:

It's like I laugh, silently, at some of the people who I ice skate

with,

Quoted message said:

these are long track Olympic and near-Olympic types. They spend

their lives

Quoted message said:

trying to reach perfection in a very strict process someone else

defines

Quoted message said:

for them. They want to be told how many minutes to do a certain

exercise.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps its good for them. They aren't challenged to make

decisions, which

Quoted message said:

they could error on. They have a very clear goal (Olympic gold) and

some

Quoted message said:

come close enough that they earn respect for life. I guess they're

lucky

Quoted message said:

they can enjoy that."

Uhh, Heather, did it occur to you that thousands and thousands of previous skaters have tried
absolutely everything possible to train for those events? They have used centuries of trial and
error to learn the fastest way to skate and the very best and brightest have tried to pass that
information on to the next generations best and brightest? This group then has tried everything to
improve on those practices and they have then passed on what they learned.

Do you really think that you are going to come up with a better way? Maybe you can't find one of the
good coaches and maybe you can learn better by yourself than under a mediocre coach, but explain why
the best racers always seem to have the best coaches?

"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kyle Legate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a

pair of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cycling shoes.

My dad started to race in his father's wedding shoes.

How soon people forget clips and straps.

Tom Kunich said:

Quoted message said:

Uhh, Heather, did it occur to you that thousands and thousands of previous skaters have tried
absolutely everything possible to train for those events? They have used centuries of trial and
error to learn the fastest way to skate and the very best and brightest have tried to pass that
information on to the next generations best and brightest? This group then has tried everything to
improve on those practices and they have then passed on what they learned.

Do you really think that you are going to come up with a better way? Maybe you can't find one of
the good coaches and maybe you can learn better by yourself than under a mediocre coach, but
explain why the best racers always seem to have the best coaches?

i don't know anything about long track ice skating!

i only meant to illustrate that some people thrive under lots of rules and structure, and some
people- like the author i quoted- don't. whether or not the rules are good or bad was out of the
scope of my post.

if you want to start a thread about coaching, i don't blame you. & i'm sure there are people lurking
who could comment on your question, but for some reason, competence in that discipline reduces one's
ability to communicate about it on rbr.

heather

Tom Kunich said:

Uhh, Heather, did it occur to you that thousands and thousands of previous skaters have tried
absolutely everything possible to train for those events? They have used centuries of trial and
error to learn the fastest way to skate and the very best and brightest have tried to pass that
information on to the next generations best and brightest? This group then has tried everything to
improve on those practices and they have then passed on what they learned.

Running has much more history than skating. Then how come Zatopek revolutionized training for
distance running in the 1950s?

Quoted message said:

explain why the best racers always seem to have the best coaches?

They don't. Good athletes make their coaches look good. The real measure of a good coach are the
results of his beginners.

Ken Papai said:

Are you reveling in your FREDness? (Fred == Dork)

The fact that you're using two equal signs makes you a dork too.

"Andrew Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If you think of both of those rules in the case where you are crashing and sliding on the ground,
I think they both make plenty of sense. I've seen shoes with toes exposed after a long slide. I've
seen jerseys slide nicely on pavement without seriously damaging the skin below. Reducing injury
is the name of the game.

This doesn't make sense. Why draw the line there? Why not long sleeves and long pants? Or at least
lengths that cover the knees and elbows, which are fairly likely to get road rash. I've seen elbows
after a long slide too, but they're not required to be covered.

The real reason for the rules is tradition and uniformity. I think there's some value to that.
Sleeveless jerseys are not part of the bike racer look. And there is something to be said to having
participants in the sport look more uniform -- it makes the sport look more serious/important to
outsiders.

JT

--
*******************************************
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Visit jt10000.comjt10000.comOpen ↗
*******************************************

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Of course I'll wear a sleeved jersey next time, but I think the sleeveless ones look fine or
better with the right arms sticking out of them.

<snip>

Do you beat your wife?

And you call yourself a troll? That's pathetic.

The canonical question is, "when did you stop beating your wife?"

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The real reason for the rules is tradition and uniformity. I think there's some value to that.
Sleeveless jerseys are not part of the bike racer look. And there is something to be said to
having participants in the sport look more uniform -- it makes the sport look more
serious/important to outsiders.

All team sports have some element of tradition in their unifoms.

Soccer, football, baseball, hockey, basketball all have their "dumbass rules".

Has anyone pointed out to the dumbass originator of this thread that it's his job to know the rules?

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Tom Kunich said:

Uhh, Heather, did it occur to you that thousands and thousands of previous skaters have tried
absolutely everything possible to train for those events? They have used centuries of trial and
error to learn the fastest way to skate and the very best and brightest have tried to pass that
information on to the next generations best and brightest? This group then has tried everything to
improve on those practices and they have then passed on what they learned.

Running has much more history than skating. Then how come Zatopek revolutionized training for
distance running in the 1950s?

Quoted message said:

explain why the best racers always seem to have the best coaches?

They don't. Good athletes make their coaches look good. The real measure of a good coach are the
results of his beginners.

That's one measure. Another measure would be a coach who can help take athletes to the next level
that the athlete couldn't achieve on their own.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course I'll wear a sleeved jersey next time, but I think the sleeveless ones look fine or
better with the right arms sticking out

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them.

<snip>

Do you beat your wife?

And you call yourself a troll? That's pathetic.

The canonical question is, "when did you stop beating your wife?"

What makes you think he stopped?

Quoted message said:

Raptor said:

A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.

Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible rationale that I can think of. If
we want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk, who cares?

"Kyle Legate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

When you crash and land on your shoulder, you'll be grateful for the extra covering.

I crashed and landed on my shoulder in a full shouldered jersey in a race a week and a half ago and
the 'extra covering' did nothing stop the road rash on my shoulder (or the broken collar bone and
ligament). Personally I'd prefer a mandatory IQ test for racers to sift out morons who cause
completely unnecessary crashes in breakaways. Actually sleeveless jerseys are cool (literally) on
very hot days which is why you see pros in the Giro wrapping up their sleeves on hot days.

Enough one handed typing.

Donald

Ken Papai said:

"Raptor" <me@@attbi.com...

Quoted message said:

I was about to grace the bike racing world with my lard-ass, hairy-leg, grizzled presence for the
first time in 15 years. Having waited an hour for the 1-4s to race, I collected with the other
freds at the start line, only to be informed:

A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.

Are you reveling in your FREDness? (Fred == Dork)

Sure, why not? It's a secret fantasy to show up to a race with streamers on the bar ends and a
playing card clothespinned to the spokes, and blow the field away. The first part I know I can do,
the latter...?

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Donald Munro said:

I crashed and landed on my shoulder in a full shouldered jersey in a race a week and a half ago
and the 'extra covering' did nothing stop the road rash on my shoulder (or the broken collar bone
and ligament). Personally I'd prefer a mandatory IQ test for racers to sift out morons who cause
completely unnecessary crashes in breakaways. Actually sleeveless jerseys are cool (literally) on
very hot days which is why you see pros in the Giro wrapping up their sleeves on hot days.

Ahh, it could have been worse!

Since I rarely ever wear gloves I need the sleeves on my jersey to wipe the sweat off my forehead.
The sleeves on a jersey help to prevent salt stinging the eyes, which can lead to more crashes.
Ergo, sleeves help to prevent crashes.