Dumb waitress.

Sheldon said:

by far your most awful lapse was in your never discussing your concerns
with management previously nor did you this time.

I agree with this. Perhaps you could print up your post and present it to
him, then ask what he thinks ought to be done to remedy the situation. (Of
course, if the waitress in question turns out to be his daughter, then the
answer will be "nothing."😉

Bob

Sheldon said:

Julia Altshuler said:

A few weeks ago we ate a family-owned Italian restaurant. The
service there has never been great as the waitress has been known
to forget requests along the lines of more water or a soup spoon,
but I'd never found it to be horrible until a few weeks ago.

The waitress looked to be in her early 20s and had all the facial
expressions and mannerisms of a petulent teen. She told us the
specials. One was a vegetable risotto. Liking risotto rice but
not sure what the dish consisted of and liking many but not all
vegetables, I asked her to describe the special. With a straight
face, she said that she didn't know because no one had ordered it
yet. She then waited as though that answered my question. I kept
looking back at her until she suddenly looked surprised like
she'd just thought of something and said that she could go to the
kitchen to find out. I nodded that I thought that was a good
idea.

She came back and told me that it was like, you know, rice, with
like vegetables. Her face was contorted with an expression that
told me that she hated vegetables and thought they were the most
disgusting things in the world. I asked what vegetables. She
said, like, you know, peppers and vegetables like that (more
expressions of disgust). I know what peppers are and like
peppers, but I don't know what vegetables like peppers are so I
waited for her to continue. She didn't. Apparently she thought
that "vegetables like peppers" answered the question adequately.

I decided not to press the subject and ordered the Caesar salad
with shrimp. That was on the menu. A reasonable time later, she
brought our food. Mine was a house salad with shrimp. I asked
about the Caesar, and she told me that that's the way it comes
and that they don't have shrimp with Caesar. She was quite
definite as she told me that like I'd have to special-order
shrimp with Caesar, you know. I asked to see a menu. She
disappeared to the kitchen so I got up and got myself a menu from
the hostess desk. (It was unattended.) I found the place where
it clearly says that they offer Caesar with shrimp.

When she returned, she apologized briefly and insincerely and
brought me the right salad. She acted exactly the way I did with
my parents when I was a teenager and asked to do any sort of
housework. She'd do it but only after discussion and objection.
She might have thought she was being friendly by revealing so
much of her own thoughts and opinions. This might be what's meant
by treating the customer like family.

On getting the check, I did something I've never done before.
Usually I tip normally. If I don't like something about a
restaurant or meal, I don't return, but I don't take it out on
the waitress. That time I insisted on tipping a quarter of the
amount I normally would. Five percent came to a whopping dollar
and change. I'm not sure I was right to do so. I still have
misgivings, but I couldn't see that she was hardworking but
clueless.

For a moment there I thought you answered your own question, but
your above comment makes little sense... didn't you mean to write
"but I *could* see that she was hardworking but clueless. If so
then you were wrong to stiff her... you said right up front that
the restaurant never did have good service yet you chose to eat
there anyway. And it was very obvious that the waitress was brand
new (that joint probably changed waitstaff like you change your
panties you do wear panties and change them often I assume). But
by far your most awful lapse was in your never discussing your
concerns with management previously nor did you this time. I
would strongly suggest you find a different place more to your
liking... perhaps raise your standards 15%.

Sheldon

You are misreading the statement. If they *could* see that she was
hardworking but clueless it would be forgiven. But apparently they
were NOT hardworking but clueless. They were lazy and clueless and
didn't really even deserve the dollar tip.

Bob said:

Sheldon said:

by far your most awful lapse was in your never discussing your
concerns with management previously nor did you this time.

I agree with this. Perhaps you could print up your post and
present it to him, then ask what he thinks ought to be done to
remedy the situation. (Of course, if the waitress in question
turns out to be his daughter, then the answer will be "nothing."😉

Oh, I doubt that would be the case.

"Andy" <& --Lia

Quoted message said:

Lia,

Was she also chewing gum and blowing bubbles?

As far as the tip goes, if it's a kitchen problem, you can't hold that
against the waitress, other than mention it. If it's her problem, the
tip can shrink to nothing, or the offending 3 penny tip.

Imho,

Andy

============

Hmmm. No. I think Lia was within her right to tip as she did. Her
waitress wasn't familiar with the dishes and even after going to the kitchen
to look (!) she still couldn't properly discuss the dish (other than "like"
and "like"!).

Responding to what Sheldon said in another post - what is with everyone
thinking they *must* tip at least 15 %? If prices hadn't gone up in the
last umpteen years.... No. Nevermind. I'm not even going to open this can
of worms. And before anyone even says/asks it, Yes, I too was a
waitress/server/etc.. One should tip what they can afford and/or what seems
appropriate. I really dislike the seemingly mandatory percentages.

<sigh>

Cyndi

Rick & Cyndi said:

"Andy" <& --Lia

Quoted message said:

Lia,

Was she also chewing gum and blowing bubbles?

As far as the tip goes, if it's a kitchen problem, you can't hold
that against the waitress, other than mention it. If it's her
problem, the tip can shrink to nothing, or the offending 3 penny
tip.

Imho,

Andy

============

Hmmm. No. I think Lia was within her right to tip as she did.
Her waitress wasn't familiar with the dishes and even after going
to the kitchen to look (!) she still couldn't properly discuss the
dish (other than "like" and "like"!).

Responding to what Sheldon said in another post - what is with
everyone thinking they *must* tip at least 15 %? If prices hadn't
gone up in the last umpteen years.... No. Nevermind. I'm not
even going to open this can of worms. And before anyone even
says/asks it, Yes, I too was a waitress/server/etc.. One should
tip what they can afford and/or what seems appropriate. I really
dislike the seemingly mandatory percentages.

I completely agree. If people are always going to tip at least 15%
regardless of the service why even bother trying to be a good server?

Andy said:

Was she also chewing gum and blowing bubbles?

As far as the tip goes, if it's a kitchen problem, you can't hold that
against the waitress, other than mention it. If it's her problem, the
tip can shrink to nothing, or the offending 3 penny tip.

Why can't you hold the wait staff responsible for kitchen staff errors? I
don't know if it was here or another group where a waiter claimed that
waiting tables was not just menial labour because, among other duties,
they had to make sure that the kitchen got ht the order right. Since a
waiter clearly indicated that part of his job was to make sure the kitchen
got it right, then a serious order error means that he screwed up too.

Nick said:

I completely agree. If people are always going to tip at least 15%
regardless of the service why even bother trying to be a good server?

So that they can whine when they get a penny or a dime for [censored] service 🙂
--

saerah

"It's not a gimmick, it's an incentive."- asterbark, afca

aware of the manifold possibilities of the future

"I think there's a clause in the Shaman's and Jujumen's Local #57 Union
contract that they have to have reciprocity for each other's shop rules."
-König Prüß

Dave Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Andy said:

Was she also chewing gum and blowing bubbles?

Why can't you hold the wait staff responsible for kitchen staff
errors? I don't know if it was here or another group where a waiter
claimed that waiting tables was not just menial labour because, among
other duties, they had to make sure that the kitchen got ht the order
right. Since a waiter clearly indicated that part of his job was to
make sure the kitchen got it right, then a serious order error means
that he screwed up too.

Well, I think it's the opposite. When I was working at a cafe making
coffee drinks and crepes, I got tips from the waitresses at the end of
the night. This took me by surprise at first, but I liked it and I paid
better attention to details and made more in tips as a result.

Many things are beyong the waitstaff's control. Is the steak cooked to
your order? Is your tea earl gray and not orange pekoe? What's inside of
those potstickers, etc., etc.

If it's the chef's fault, the waitress can mention the problem and then
let the chef know in the pocket by leaving less of a tip. Or something
like that.

Andy

Andy said:

Well, I think it's the opposite. When I was working at a cafe making
coffee drinks and crepes, I got tips from the waitresses at the end of
the night. This took me by surprise at first, but I liked it and I paid
better attention to details and made more in tips as a result.

Many things are beyong the waitstaff's control. Is the steak cooked to
your order?

Doneness of steak can be a little testy.

Quoted message said:

Is your tea earl gray and not orange pekoe?

Most tea in restaurants comes in a back with a string and the type of tea on
a label in the string.

Quoted message said:

What's inside of
those potstickers, etc., etc.

I don't know.... ask the cook :-)

Quoted message said:

If it's the chef's fault, the waitress can mention the problem and then
let the chef know in the pocket by leaving less of a tip. Or something
like that.

So we are expected to tip so that the waitress can pass on some of the tip
just for getting the order right?

Dave Smith said:

Why can't you hold the wait staff responsible for kitchen staff errors? I
don't know if it was here or another group where a waiter claimed that
waiting tables was not just menial labour because, among other duties,
they had to make sure that the kitchen got ht the order right. Since a
waiter clearly indicated that part of his job was to make sure the kitchen
got it right, then a serious order error means that he screwed up too.

There's a big differenc between getting the order right and getting the
right order. Waitstaff is reponsible for getting the right order,
kitchen staff is responsible for getting the order right. And the
waitstaff is not responsible for making sure that the kitchenstaff does
anything other than to inform of any special instructions from the
customer, such as that the customer desires gravy to accompany their
chicken fried steak. Waitstaff is no more responsible for mentioning
gravy accompanying chicken fried steak as mentioning raw onion slices
to accompany a burger. Anytime I ever wanted raw onion slices on a
burger I had to inform the waitstaff, never once were raw onion slices
recommended by waitstaff or brought automatically. Anytime I ever
ordered mashed with meatloaf I was never asked if I wanted gravy...
gravy usually accompanied but not always, but if it did accompany then
always on the side (most people don't want the kitchen to apply gravy
any more than they'd want the kitchen to apply ketchup. If it was
important for Andy to have gravy with his chcken fried steak then it
was entirely up to him to ask for gravy at the time he placed his
order, not wait for his food to be served and then blame the waitstaff
for lack of gravy. Andy did not take responsibility, he bahaved like a
six year old.... next time widdle Andy goes to a restaurant he needs to
be accompanied by his mommy, so she can order for him, and cut up his
food, and feed him with his widdle choochoo train spoon.

Sheldon

Dave Smith said:

Why can't you hold the wait staff responsible for kitchen staff errors? I
don't know if it was here or another group where a waiter claimed that
waiting tables was not just menial labour because, among other duties,
they had to make sure that the kitchen got ht the order right. Since a
waiter clearly indicated that part of his job was to make sure the kitchen
got it right, then a serious order error means that he screwed up too.

If I recollect, that was about waitstaff in a much higher level place.
Don't confuse the two.

jim

Julia Altshuler said:

A few weeks ago we ate a family-owned Italian restaurant.

Wow! You musta been hungry! ;-) ;-)

Kate

Kate Connally said:

Julia Altshuler said:

A few weeks ago we ate a family-owned Italian restaurant.

Wow! You musta been hungry! ;-) ;-)

Ba-dum tish

On Tue 21 Jun 2005 12:08:56p, Kate Connally wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Julia Altshuler said:

A few weeks ago we ate a family-owned Italian restaurant.

Wow! You musta been hungry! ;-) ;-)

Kate

Any hungrier and she'd have eaten a natiional chain! :-))

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Thanks for the answers on the subject of my not tipping a waitress.

That's a good point about complaining to management before walking out
without tipping. There are 2 reasons I didn't (and generally don't).
In this case, management was nowhere to be seen. The restaurant had
some other parties in it when we came in, but they had left by the time
I needed to see a menu about the wrong order. Note that there was no
one at the hostess station. I suppose I could have walked into the
kitchen, but I wasn't about to do that.

The other reason I rarely complain is because my first responsibility is
to make the evening an enjoyable one for my date. (We've been together
for 18 years, but he's still my date.) Making a scene, even in the form
of a quietly and firmly asking to speak to the manager, then quietly and
firmly stating my complaint, doesn't make for an enjoyable evening for
him. I hate confrontations too. Maybe we wimped out. Maybe not
tipping is a form of passive aggression, but maybe we did what we did to
save an evening. That way we could turn it into a funny story instead
of one that makes us cringe. After all, I could have eaten the wrong
salad without terrible harm.

While I agree in general with Nick that one needn't ALWAYS tip 15-20%
even when the service is bad, I don't agree with the reasoning. There
are a great many jobs that people do well without the threat of being
stiffed over their head. We don't tip doctors and teachers for doing
their jobs. I expect that my auto mechanic will fix the car correctly
and don't give him an extra 20% as an incentive to take extra care.

As for the idea of the waitress tipping the kitchen staff-- There's a
huge problem here. For as long as I can remember, management has been
thinking up new ways to get their hands on the tips. It goes in a cycle:

Wait staff is paid poorly.

Patron tips to bring tips up to fair wage.

Management pays waitstaff more poorly still, even below minimum wage
with assumption that tips will bring wage up.

Patrons tip more.

Even with hourly pay amounting to almost nothing, tips bring hourly wage
up to fair wage.

Management gives waitstaff more to do in the form of prepping salads or
cleaning or putting away inventory for which they're still paid almost
nothing for that hourly time. They might come in an hour early and
leave 2 hours later during which time they're not waiting tables and
during which time they're really not being paid. Tips cover that time
so hourly wage averages out even lower.

Patron tip more.

Management insist waitstaff tip all front of the house help including
bussers, seaters, telephone answerers, etc.
Waitstaffs hourly rate goes down.

Patrons tip more.

Now we introduce the idea of the waitstaff having to pay off the kitchen
staff in order to get their orders right? Management would love it!
Now they don't have to pay their cooks either. Cycle continues. (Hell,
the cooks could expand it into a whole blackmail scheme: Give me a
better blowjob, or I'll screw up your orders, and you won't get tipped.)

I need to stress that that was the first time I've ever tipped so low.
I only wrote about it here because I'm not sure we did the right thing.
I'm thinking we did, but I'm wishy-washy on the subject.

(And thanks for pointing out that giggling good typo.)

--Lia

Dave Smith said:

Andy said:

Was she also chewing gum and blowing bubbles?

As far as the tip goes, if it's a kitchen problem, you can't hold
that against the waitress, other than mention it. If it's her
problem, the tip can shrink to nothing, or the offending 3 penny tip.

Why can't you hold the wait staff responsible for kitchen staff
errors? I don't know if it was here or another group where a waiter
claimed that waiting tables was not just menial labour because, among
other duties, they had to make sure that the kitchen got ht the order
right. Since a waiter clearly indicated that part of his job was to
make sure the kitchen got it right, then a serious order error means
that he screwed up too.

You sure can. I had to know what went on every plate and make sure it was
there before I added whatever garnishes and carried a plate out of the
kitchen. Even when I wasn't a server, working as a hostess and also doing
computer work in the back of the house, I had to memorize the menu. I had
to know what the daily specials were and what they consisted of so if
someone asked me about the risotto I could say "risotto with green and red
bell peppers, zucchini, carrots" etc. If someone asked me how something was
prepared, short of giving away the recipe I could sincerely answer it's
broiled, or baked or whatever. If I didn't know, I would immediately go ask
and bring back a detailed answer.

Obviously Lia's server just didn't care. Didn't deserve more of a tip,
either. She probably also griped to other staff because this customer had
her "running" to find out stuff and then after all that didn't even order
the risotto!

On the other hand, they did go there knowing the restaurant doesn't have a
great track record for service. I'd have been having a chat with the
manager if the server didn't seem to "get it".

Jill

Julia Altshuler said:

I need to stress that that was the first time I've ever tipped so low.
I only wrote about it here because I'm not sure we did the right thing.
I'm thinking we did, but I'm wishy-washy on the subject.

Only you can make that determination. My guideline would be whether I
plan on returning, if not doing nothing doesn't much matter to me but
if I plan to return then if I don't address my disatisfaction with
management I'm a wimp. And btw, it would be far more unsettling to my
evening had I chose to say nothing, would probably irk me for weeks and
months that I was such a wimp. I always feel better when I get things
off my chest, no shrinking violet here. In the vast majority of cases
management wants to know about complaints, otherwise they think
everything is just fine but wonder why business is dropping off. And
there is no reason to engage in a protracted discussion, certainly no
reason to argue... just state your complaint, keep it jocular, say
think you, and depart. On the rare occasion you encounter a hostile
manager don't get caught up in their game, just leave, you know you
will never return, and then to get even tellall your friends and anyone
you happen to meet for the next twenty years. Management doesn't want
a drama queen event either. Next you return make it a point to
immediately greet the owner or manager. With the few neighborhood
restaurants I frequented often I always made it a point to engage in
brief conversation with the owners/managers... waitstaff noticed and
were on their best behaviour. There are rules for waitstaff but there
are rules of comportment for patrons as well.

Sheldon

Julia Altshuler said:

I need to stress that that was the first time I've ever tipped so low.
I only wrote about it here because I'm not sure we did the right thing.
I'm thinking we did, but I'm wishy-washy on the subject.

(And thanks for pointing out that giggling good typo.)

--Lia

I probably would have done the exact same thing, but I doubt the
clueless waitress understood why the tip was so low. She probably just
thought you were a picky [censored] who always tipped low. IME, generally,
petulant post-teens are that way because they don't know any better.
Some grow out of it, others don't. The lucky ones have an astute
non-parental adult in their lives to give them a kick in the pnats.
The unlucky ones go through life clueless and master the "victim" role
effectively.

-L.