DavidR said:"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:DavidR wrote:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:No, just realise that you not liking them doesn't mean they're bad
for everyone. If you don't like them there are plenty of options.
If drops were right for everyone there wouldn't be the options.
If it was just me I would accept it as an individual dislike. I don't
make any apologies for slagging them off when I see plenty of people
looking awkward on them.
And I don't apologise for defending them when I know how well they can
work. I still get the impression that you don't fully appreciate all the
ways they can be well used and all the advantages. I'd rather help
"awkward" people with drops get more from them when possible, but it seems
you'd rather the baby was slung out with the bath water -- not a totally
wonderful idea when there is no alternative that does everything drops do
better.
Quoted message said:Do people go for the posture or the hand grip (assuming the 'behind
the hoods' is the dominant position)?
Bad assumption. Any one of the three or four main positions can be the
dominant position, depending on the person and their ride.
The debate should not be about transverse versus longitudinal grip because
both drop and straight bars provide BOTH (when bar ends are used with
straights). It's about the different sets of compromises involved.
Do not underestimate how good the "tops" position is on drop bars (or
positions, because there is an infinite number, including one next to the
stem). The brake levers being more than a couple of inches away from the
fingers doesn't matter for the /majority of the time/ on all sorts of
roads, including busy urban ones, especially considering that the typical
cyclist is not traveling much faster than his/her average speed for most
of the time (that's time, not necessarily distance).
It's still quick and easy enough to brake when required: the switch is
easier than bar-ends to grips on straight bars (and bar ends tend to be
used for faster speeds as well, when speed of brake lever access is more
important). Those short times when this is not good enough, it's not such
a big deal to use the hoods position even if that is not your favourite
position.
But for those who want to have their cake and eat it, there are extension
levers that allow braking from the tops in addition from hoods and drops
(modern ones that work in a superior way to old "suicide levers"😉. How
about that: braking from *three* positions!
Quoted message said:The thing, is there are few
real options because it is automatically assumed that someone wanting
a stretch position is a drop bar and an upright position is a
transverse bar. It isn't just that the hand positions are different -
the default body position is also different.
A typical touring position is not that different from a typical mountain
biking position. The road racing position is different, but many (most?)
people with racers want the resulting better aerodynamics. It's not
compulsory, though.......
Quoted message said:To change the hand grip
but retain the posture, the owner needs to add money, thought &
effort.
That's not a reason to not to try or persevere for a good while with them,
because the rewards are potentially so great. In any case, a stem change
and plenty of adjustment is often needed to get the position right for the
rider on any sort of bike with any sort of bars.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:But it's a grip for a different job for a different amount of time
with a different amount of weight supported.
I don't accept that the statement "it is different" is sufficient. I
don't understand why a longitudinal grip is better than a transverse
one when I see a transverse one to be grip of choice (when posture
isn't a factor).
Transverse grip is not enough for those who like to give the hands and
wrists a change every so often (a change being as good as a rest). Drop
bars provide the choice, in a different way than bar ends do on straight
bars. To most drop bar fans, longitudinal grip (via hoods or drops) is
especially good for faster cycling, and importantly, that's where the
brake levers happen to be (and gear shifters too with Ergo/STI). That is
what I call a good compromise.
Your trolley example hardly relates to cycling for the reasons already
mentioned. Another one is that the trolley handle is wider than a bike
drop bar. To point out that people use one position with them when there
effectively is only one position is meaningless, considering the
supermarket trolley is such a notoriously poorly designed product, with
little being done to make it easy for the customer to use. It doesn't
matter anyway as drops provide the "trolley position"!
~PB, back from a ride on his sacred cow horns, and very good it was moo.
