UK and Europe · Public discussion

Drivers want road test for cyclists (Observer article)

David Cowie · 2004-01-20T23:03:15+00:00

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1125629,00.html My response 1) You'll notice all the 'Useful links' at the bottom of the report are to motoring organisations and the Special Reports are for Cars, Transport, Oil and Petrol. Now that should indicate the objectiveness of the article. 2) The title 'Drivers want road test for cyclist' should read 'Motoring Organisations wishing to promote themselves are calling for road tests for cyclists' 3) The lycra louts referred to are kids who ride on the pavement in black clothes with no lights (at night). They have no right to be there and 95% of fellow cyclists and 100% of pedestrians despise them. 4) There is no 'unprecedented campaign' just the usual press articles 'we love cars, we hate cyclists'. 5) The demand is for stiffer penalties (above the usual). Note we also suffer from lack of enforcement of penalties. Even the RAC agrees on this. 6) The MP, Eric Martlew represents Carlisle but is looking to solve a London problem. Carlisle is about 800km from London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been elected to solve ! 7) I agree about cyclists not stopping at red lights. My estimates are 50% don't (similar to RAC findings). Whether you do or don't is a function of how long you have been riding or how many accidents you've had. 8) A Private members bills (amendments to legislation) (to force young members to where helmets or face fines) can be raised by a single MP. Bills that survive the 'suggestion phase' then progress to the Committee Stage. In 2001-02, 8 out of 114 bills were successful. 9) Andrew Howard says 'There is an element of lawlessness among pedal cyclists and they sometimes need reminding that there are people more vulnerable than them on the roads.' Perhaps the focus should be on the number of lawless car users. 10) The main bugbear is the increased cost of insurance to organisations from the new proposed European legislation. </rant

Started by David Cowie · 20 January 2004 · Last activity 21 January 2004 · 9 posts · 508 views

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01 / Original postDrivers want road test for cyclists (Observer article)David Cowie · 20 Jan 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–9Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #9Paulmouk · 21 Jan 2004

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Original section: UK and Europe
Published: 20 January 2004
Last activity: 21 January 2004
Original author: David Cowie
Posts: 9
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 508
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Original post
David Cowie
Archived post

20 January 2004, 23:03 UTC #1

observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
My response
<rant>
1) You'll notice all the 'Useful links' at the bottom of the report are to motoring organisations
and the Special Reports are for Cars, Transport, Oil and Petrol. Now that should indicate the
objectiveness of the article.
2) The title 'Drivers want road test for cyclist' should read 'Motoring Organisations wishing to
promote themselves are calling for road tests for cyclists'
3) The lycra louts referred to are kids who ride on the pavement in black clothes with no lights
(at night). They have no right to be there and 95% of fellow cyclists and 100% of pedestrians
despise them.
4) There is no 'unprecedented campaign' just the usual press articles 'we love cars, we hate
cyclists'.
5) The demand is for stiffer penalties (above the usual). Note we also suffer from lack of
enforcement of penalties. Even the RAC agrees on this.
6) The MP, Eric Martlew represents Carlisle but is looking to solve a London problem. Carlisle is
about 800km from London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been
elected to solve !
7) I agree about cyclists not stopping at red lights. My estimates are 50% don't (similar to RAC
findings). Whether you do or don't is a function of how long you have been riding or how many
accidents you've had.
8) A Private members bills (amendments to legislation) (to force young members to where helmets or
face fines) can be raised by a single MP. Bills that survive the 'suggestion phase' then
progress to the Committee Stage. In 2001-02, 8 out of 114 bills were successful.
9) Andrew Howard says 'There is an element of lawlessness among pedal cyclists and they sometimes
need reminding that there are people more vulnerable than them on the roads.' Perhaps the focus
should be on the number of lawless car users.
10) The main bugbear is the increased cost of insurance to organisations from the new proposed
European legislation.
</rant

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Jamie G
Archived post

21 January 2004, 00:04 UTC #2

"David Cowie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
My response
<rant>
Count the number of car ads in that paper.

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W K
Archived post

21 January 2004, 00:04 UTC #3

"David Cowie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
Quoted message said:
2) The title 'Drivers want road test for cyclist' should read 'Motoring Organisations wishing to
promote themselves are calling for road tests for cyclists'
No they don't. The journalist asked a few questions, and they did not say anything of the sort.

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Ambrose Nankive
Archived post

21 January 2004, 01:03 UTC #4

In "]news:[email hidden],
David Cowie <[email hidden]> typed:
Quoted message said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
My response
6) The MP, Eric Martlew represents Carlisle but is looking to solve a London problem. Carlisle is
about 800km from London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been
elected to solve !
about 500km, actually. Aberdeen is about 800km from London.
A

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Mseries
Archived post

21 January 2004, 10:01 UTC #5

David Cowie said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
My response
<rant>
1) You'll notice all the 'Useful links' at the bottom of the report are to motoring organisations
and the Special Reports are for Cars, Transport, Oil and Petrol. Now that should indicate the
objectiveness of the article.
2) The title 'Drivers want road test for cyclist' should read 'Motoring Organisations wishing to
promote themselves are calling for road tests for cyclists'
3) The lycra louts referred to are kids who ride on the pavement in black clothes with no lights
(at night). They have no right to be there and 95% of fellow cyclists and 100% of pedestrians
despise them.
4) There is no 'unprecedented campaign' just the usual press articles 'we love cars, we hate
cyclists'.
5) The demand is for stiffer penalties (above the usual). Note we also suffer from lack of
enforcement of penalties. Even the RAC agrees on this.
6) The MP, Eric Martlew represents Carlisle but is looking to solve a London problem. Carlisle is
about 800km from London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been
elected to solve !
7) I agree about cyclists not stopping at red lights. My estimates are 50% don't (similar to RAC
findings). Whether you do or don't is a function of how long you have been riding or how many
accidents you've had.
8) A Private members bills (amendments to legislation) (to force young members to where helmets
or face fines) can be raised by a single MP. Bills that survive the 'suggestion phase' then
progress to the Committee Stage. In 2001-02, 8 out of 114 bills were successful.
9) Andrew Howard says 'There is an element of lawlessness among pedal cyclists and they sometimes
need reminding that there are people more vulnerable than them on the roads.' Perhaps the
focus should be on the number of lawless car users.
10) The main bugbear is the increased cost of insurance to organisations from the new proposed
European legislation.
</rant>
The article is a load of tosh IMHO, I am adriver and cyclist, I am a motorist and cyclist and I
don't want a test for cyclists, I would like all cyclists to be law abiding ones, a test would not
make that happen just like a magical driving licence does not make all the lights on my car stay
illuminated or my speed to remain within legal limits. My own regard for the law and safety does.
The fear of getting caught and nicked will deter offenders not test. Failing or not taking a cycling
test will not deter anyone who wants to ride a bike. Whichever motorists want a road test for
cyclists are living in cloud cuckoo land. But I guess we all know this already.
martin
--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.uk

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Dave Kahn
Archived post

21 January 2004, 11:01 UTC #6

David Cowie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
5) The demand is for stiffer penalties (above the usual). Note we also suffer from lack of
enforcement of penalties. Even the RAC agrees on this.
All that's required is enforcement of existing laws on pavement cycling, traffic lights, and cycle
lighting at night. While they're about it, it would be nice if they would start fining motorists who
use the cycle lanes.
Quoted message said:
6) The MP, Eric Martlew represents Carlisle but is looking to solve a London problem. Carlisle is
about 800km from London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been
elected to solve !
Suddenly Eric Martlew is an authority on cycling because of his private member's bill. If enacted
the bill would destroy any faint remaining hope of reaching the government's target for cycling, at
the same time dealing a serious blow to public health just when obsesity in the young is becoming a
serious issue.
--
Dave...

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Dave Kahn
Archived post

21 January 2004, 11:01 UTC #7

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
In "]news:[email hidden], David Cowie <[email hidden]> typed:
Quoted message said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html Carlisle is about 800km from
London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been elected to solve !
about 500km, actually. Aberdeen is about 800km from London.
Cut David some slack. He's only a colonial. :-)
--
Dave...

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Anonymous
Archived post

21 January 2004, 12:01 UTC #8

David Cowie posted ...
Quoted message said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
My response
<rant>
I guess you'd find similar, biased towards cycling rather than cars, articles in the cycling
press too .. 😉
--
Paul

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Paulmouk
Archived post

21 January 2004, 22:02 UTC #9

"David Cowie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
observer.guardian.co.uk0,6903,1125629,00.html
My response
<rant>
1) You'll notice all the 'Useful links' at the bottom of the report are to motoring organisations
and the Special Reports are for Cars, Transport, Oil and Petrol. Now that should indicate the
objectiveness of the article.
2) The title 'Drivers want road test for cyclist' should read 'Motoring Organisations wishing to
promote themselves are calling for road tests for cyclists'
3) The lycra louts referred to are kids who ride on the pavement in black clothes with no lights
(at night). They have no right to be there and 95% of fellow cyclists and 100% of pedestrians
despise them.
4) There is no 'unprecedented campaign' just the usual press articles 'we love cars, we hate
cyclists'.
5) The demand is for stiffer penalties (above the usual). Note we also suffer from lack of
enforcement of penalties. Even the RAC agrees on this.
6) The MP, Eric Martlew represents Carlisle but is looking to solve a London problem. Carlisle is
about 800km from London. His argument is against lack of enforcement. Something he's been
elected to solve !
7) I agree about cyclists not stopping at red lights. My estimates are 50% don't (similar to RAC
findings). Whether you do or don't is a function of how long you have been riding or how many
accidents you've had.
8) A Private members bills (amendments to legislation) (to force young members to where helmets
or face fines) can be raised by a single MP. Bills that survive the 'suggestion phase' then
progress to the Committee Stage. In 2001-02, 8 out of 114 bills were successful.
9) Andrew Howard says 'There is an element of lawlessness among pedal cyclists and they sometimes
need reminding that there are people more vulnerable than them on the roads.' Perhaps the
focus should be on the number of lawless car users.
10) The main bugbear is the increased cost of insurance to organisations from the new proposed
European legislation.
Most adult cyclists have passed a driving test and are car owners. Paul

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