Dried blood in A+E?

dannyfrankszzz said:

As I mentioned earlier, I was the unfortunate victim of an accident the
other day which meant I had to go to A&E to have a large gash on my
left arm seen to. After a 2 hr wait I was finally seen.

The doctor wheeled in the trolley with all the bandages, plasters etc
sitting on top. Anyway, the doctor, with a clean pair of gloves, began
to open the various packages to attend to my wound. After she had
applied the local anaesthetic, she left me for a few minutes for its
effect to take place. I then looked around and noticed some dried
blood on the top level of the trolley upon which sat the packages which
the Dr. was using.

I drew this to the attention of the Dr. who then went and cleaned it
all up before continuing with my treatment. She also said that
everything was sealed and that I shouldn't worry.

However, I'm now paranoid that whilst she was handling the packages,
any disease lurking on top of the trolley could have been transmitted
from the trolley to the packaging on to her gloves and then on to me.

I'm now paranoid I may have caught something as I've heard that this is
exactly how HIV can be transmitted. I also know that I'm going to have
an anxious 3-4 month wait before I can have an HIV test. Naturally,
this is very depressing!

--
dannyfrankszzz

Once exposed to the air, HIV dies pretty quickly (in seconds) and so
there's no chance (ok, very very very very small chance) of catching it
from dried blood. You may want to get checked for Hep B and C which can
survive in dried blood.

laters,

Marz

Marz said:

dannyfrankszzz said:

As I mentioned earlier, I was the unfortunate victim of an accident the
other day which meant I had to go to A&E to have a large gash on my
left arm seen to. After a 2 hr wait I was finally seen.

The doctor wheeled in the trolley with all the bandages, plasters etc
sitting on top. Anyway, the doctor, with a clean pair of gloves, began
to open the various packages to attend to my wound. After she had
applied the local anaesthetic, she left me for a few minutes for its
effect to take place. I then looked around and noticed some dried
blood on the top level of the trolley upon which sat the packages which
the Dr. was using.

I drew this to the attention of the Dr. who then went and cleaned it
all up before continuing with my treatment. She also said that
everything was sealed and that I shouldn't worry.

However, I'm now paranoid that whilst she was handling the packages,
any disease lurking on top of the trolley could have been transmitted
from the trolley to the packaging on to her gloves and then on to me.

I'm now paranoid I may have caught something as I've heard that this is
exactly how HIV can be transmitted. I also know that I'm going to have
an anxious 3-4 month wait before I can have an HIV test. Naturally,
this is very depressing!

--
dannyfrankszzz

Once exposed to the air, HIV dies pretty quickly (in seconds) and so
there's no chance (ok, very very very very small chance) of catching it
from dried blood. You may want to get checked for Hep B and C which can
survive in dried blood.

laters,

Marz

I concur. Chance of getting HIV from the Doc's hands is extremely small to
approaching zero.

Hep. B is a concern. It lives on surfaces for a long time. However it's not
that easy to contract from the environment in a situation such as yours.

I'd say there's very little to be paranoid about. Call your PCP and explain
the situation to your doctor and see if he agrees.

Did the ER doctor use sterile gloves or exam gloves? Sterile gloves come in
a sealed paper envelope that you peel open and then don with specific
technique to prevent contamination. Exam gloves come out of a bedside box
like tissues. They are not sterile and are more for protection of the
doctor than for you. If the MD was cleaning and dressing an open wound then
I'd expect them to wear sterile gloves with long cuffs..

If they used sterile gloves, then you are even safer. Don't worry,
seriously.

"dannyfrankszzz" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I mentioned earlier, I was the unfortunate victim of an accident the
other day which meant I had to go to A&E to have a large gash on my
left arm seen to. After a 2 hr wait I was finally seen.

The doctor wheeled in the trolley with all the bandages, plasters etc
sitting on top. Anyway, the doctor, with a clean pair of gloves, began
to open the various packages to attend to my wound. After she had
applied the local anaesthetic, she left me for a few minutes for its
effect to take place. I then looked around and noticed some dried
blood on the top level of the trolley upon which sat the packages which
the Dr. was using.

I drew this to the attention of the Dr. who then went and cleaned it
all up before continuing with my treatment. She also said that
everything was sealed and that I shouldn't worry.

However, I'm now paranoid that whilst she was handling the packages,
any disease lurking on top of the trolley could have been transmitted
from the trolley to the packaging on to her gloves and then on to me.

I'm now paranoid I may have caught something as I've heard that this is
exactly how HIV can be transmitted. I also know that I'm going to have
an anxious 3-4 month wait before I can have an HIV test. Naturally,
this is very depressing!

--
dannyfrankszzz

Hygiene, or lack of it, in horse spittal fills me with dread.

Husband had to go into a day surgery unit some time ago. The floor of the
ward was carpeted, and I noticed the odd used dressing on the floor under
the bed. Made me wonder if it was ever cleaned under there. Dust bunnies
around the edge of carpet where it met the walls could also be seen. Goodly
layer of dust on metal bits of bed - where metal bits were close together.
Made me wonder if they were ever thoroughly cleaned. Saw only one nurse wash
her hands once. Never did see any of them washing their hands after seeing
one patient & then going on to the next patient. Loads of info around aout
visitors washing their hands. Also leaflets out about the standards of
cleanliness expected - how the staff woulds not be wearing jewellry, which
was a load of cobblers in reality. Rings, earrings, wristwatches, bracelets
etc to be seen in abundance. Consultant tie flapping down on to the
patients. There was me washing my hands with anti-bacterial stuff and
wearing an anti-bacterial barrier cream just as a visitor.

On another occasion, in same horse spittal, again, husband there. He was
being prodded and poked about by young doc. Admittedly, on entering the room
she washed her hands. After washing her hands she had a good old rummage
about in her handbag... Plus, no coat/apron on so there was no barrier
between her everyday clothing and the patient.

I was not impressed, and of course, I wonder if mentioning it to the staff
will actually cause resentment and neglect of patient, as if they can't be
bothered to keep scrupulously clean I wonder about their motives and basic
commitment to patient care :-(

wafflycat said:

Hygiene, or lack of it, in horse spittal fills me with dread.

My Dad was in over the summer and it was really scummy. Blood on the
floor was pushed around with a grubby mop.

My sister trained as a nurse 30 years ago and was apalled how standards
have fallen.
I her day they would have got a serious roasting for long fingernails,
untied hair, jewelry or anything that might harbour bugs.

Dad caught MRSA and ended up in isolation for a fortnight.

wafflycat said:

Made me wonder if they were ever thoroughly cleaned. Saw only one nurse wash
her hands once. Never did see any of them washing their hands after seeing
one patient & then going on to the next patient.

There's some new research they might be interested in.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis>

--
Dave...

Quoted message said:

I was not impressed, and of course, I wonder if mentioning it to the
staff will actually cause resentment and neglect of patient, as if
they can't be bothered to keep scrupulously clean I wonder about their
motives and basic commitment to patient care :-

Don't complain on here - write a complaint (addressed to the Cheif
Executive of the trust you were at) and wait for the response (should be
within 20 days, and should include advice what to do if you are unhappy
with the reply).
There are too many people prepared to moan to their friends, neighbours,
papers etc, but who will not follow the correct channels.
Complains do (in my experience) have an effect on hospital 'behaviour',
which may not be immediatetly obvious.

Mike - Leicester (whose day job includes responding to NHS complaints)

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dannyfrankszzz" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I mentioned earlier, I was the unfortunate victim of an accident the
other day which meant I had to go to A&E to have a large gash on my
left arm seen to. After a 2 hr wait I was finally seen.

The doctor wheeled in the trolley with all the bandages, plasters etc
sitting on top. Anyway, the doctor, with a clean pair of gloves, began
to open the various packages to attend to my wound. After she had
applied the local anaesthetic, she left me for a few minutes for its
effect to take place. I then looked around and noticed some dried
blood on the top level of the trolley upon which sat the packages which
the Dr. was using.

I drew this to the attention of the Dr. who then went and cleaned it
all up before continuing with my treatment. She also said that
everything was sealed and that I shouldn't worry.

However, I'm now paranoid that whilst she was handling the packages,
any disease lurking on top of the trolley could have been transmitted
from the trolley to the packaging on to her gloves and then on to me.

I'm now paranoid I may have caught something as I've heard that this is
exactly how HIV can be transmitted. I also know that I'm going to have
an anxious 3-4 month wait before I can have an HIV test. Naturally,
this is very depressing!

--
dannyfrankszzz

Hygiene, or lack of it, in horse spittal fills me with dread.

Husband had to go into a day surgery unit some time ago. The floor of the
ward was carpeted, and I noticed the odd used dressing on the floor under
the bed. Made me wonder if it was ever cleaned under there. Dust bunnies
around the edge of carpet where it met the walls could also be seen.
Goodly layer of dust on metal bits of bed - where metal bits were close
together. Made me wonder if they were ever thoroughly cleaned. Saw only
one nurse wash her hands once. Never did see any of them washing their
hands after seeing one patient & then going on to the next patient. Loads
of info around aout visitors washing their hands. Also leaflets out about
the standards of cleanliness expected - how the staff woulds not be
wearing jewellry, which was a load of cobblers in reality. Rings,
earrings, wristwatches, bracelets etc to be seen in abundance. Consultant
tie flapping down on to the patients. There was me washing my hands with
anti-bacterial stuff and wearing an anti-bacterial barrier cream just as a
visitor.

On another occasion, in same horse spittal, again, husband there. He was
being prodded and poked about by young doc. Admittedly, on entering the
room she washed her hands. After washing her hands she had a good old
rummage about in her handbag... Plus, no coat/apron on so there was no
barrier between her everyday clothing and the patient.

I was not impressed, and of course, I wonder if mentioning it to the staff
will actually cause resentment and neglect of patient, as if they can't be
bothered to keep scrupulously clean I wonder about their motives and basic
commitment to patient care :-(

Both sound fairly standard for the NHS. IMO the money is sucked out of the
system by admin and management and what's left is [censored] up the wall by
management in stupid private partnership contracts. I've nothing against
private companies, but IIRC reading that Norwich and Norfolk is contracted
to be cleaned by the same private company for 30 years. Which is longer than
the lifespan of the hospital left...

In message <[email hidden]>

Doki said:

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also leaflets out about the standards of cleanliness expected - how
the staff woulds not be wearing jewellry, which was a load of
cobblers in reality. Rings, earrings, wristwatches, bracelets etc
to be seen in abundance. Consultant tie flapping down on to the
patients. There was me washing my hands with anti-bacterial stuff
and wearing an anti-bacterial barrier cream just as a visitor.

On another occasion, in same horse spittal, again, husband there. He
was being prodded and poked about by young doc. Admittedly, on
entering the room she washed her hands. After washing her hands she
had a good old rummage about in her handbag... Plus, no coat/apron
on so there was no barrier between her everyday clothing and the
patient.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Both sound fairly standard for the NHS. IMO the money is sucked out of
the system by admin and management and what's left is [censored] up the
wall by management in stupid private partnership contracts. I've
nothing against private companies, but IIRC reading that Norwich and
Norfolk is contracted to be cleaned by the same private company for
30 years. Which is longer than the lifespan of the hospital left...

There is an expectation from other doctors, administrators and also from
patients that hospital doctors, and especially consultants, should dress
up "respectably" and look the part. Thus the men tend to wear suits,
dress shirts and ties, and women equivalent "uniform". On the wards
these would usually be covered by a white coat. However if you were
considering cross contamination and cross-infections as the major
problem then you would obviously expect the doctors to wear cloths that
were easily cleaned and sterilised and also could be quickly changed
and/or covered by disposable or sterilisable overgarments (e.g. as for
operating room surgical staff). Certainly standard dress suits and
especially ties would then not be considered appropriate for the wards.

But what would the UK public reaction be to doctors turning up on the
wards in cotton trousers and tee-shirts worn under a disposable or
sterilisable gown or coat?

In some european countries the dress code amongst hospital doctors is
not so formal as it is here in the UK.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Mike Clark said:

But what would the UK public reaction be to doctors turning up on the
wards in cotton trousers and tee-shirts worn under a disposable or
sterilisable gown or coat?

I'd much rather doctors turned up in scrubs than in civilian dress.

At least then you know they haven't just been walking the dog before
coming on the ward.

...d

"David Martin" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Mike Clark wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But what would the UK public reaction be to doctors turning up on the
wards in cotton trousers and tee-shirts worn under a disposable or
sterilisable gown or coat?

Quoted message said:

I'd much rather doctors turned up in scrubs than in civilian dress.

Quoted message said:

At least then you know they haven't just been walking the dog before
coming on the ward.

Quoted message said:

...d

I've seen nurses dining in scrubs in a local eaterie...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

David Martin said:

At least then you know they haven't just been walking the dog before
coming on the ward.

How?

wafflycat said:

Hygiene, or lack of it, in horse spittal fills me with dread.

I had an evening job in a (private) hospital kitchen when I was a 6th
former. At evenings and weekends the kitchen was staffed almost
exclusively by teenagers, most of whom had to be repeatedly told to wash
their hands before handling food.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"Danny Colyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

wafflycat said:

Hygiene, or lack of it, in horse spittal fills me with dread.

I had an evening job in a (private) hospital kitchen when I was a 6th
former. At evenings and weekends the kitchen was staffed almost
exclusively by teenagers, most of whom had to be repeatedly told to wash
their hands before handling food.

Not making excuses, but I'd sort of expect that sort of reminder to have to
be drummed in to ye average teenager. Qualified medical staff, on the other
hand, should *know* this and it be second nature to them.

David Martin said:

Mike Clark said:

But what would the UK public reaction be to doctors turning up on the
wards in cotton trousers and tee-shirts worn under a disposable or
sterilisable gown or coat?

I'd much rather doctors turned up in scrubs than in civilian dress.

At least then you know they haven't just been walking the dog before
coming on the ward.

SWMBO had to pay a visit to IC at our local last weekend. Everyone in
scrubs, basins all over the place being used to wash hands, dispensers
in all the bays for germ gel. Even had one of the nursing staff wash his
hand using ours on his way past from one patient to the next. A couple
of cleaners going round with mechanical scrubber, sucking squeegee &
buffer. All very efficient and calm. The treatment was first rate, by
the time I had parked the car (close to the door) and gone in she was on
her way to see the doc and all the tests and results flowed smoothly
from one to the next. Fortunately they were able to cross off all the
immediate nasty things and the appropriate medication sorted out the
remaining option PDQ. I would highly recommend the A&E at the new
Edinburgh Infirmary as a place to go.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and restart body.

wafflycat said:

Quoted message said:

I was not impressed, and of course, I wonder if mentioning it to the
staff will actually cause resentment and neglect of patient, as if they
can't be bothered to keep scrupulously clean I wonder about their
motives and basic commitment to patient care :-(

If you don't mention it, nobody else will.

http://www.silencekills.com/