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Dragging little'uns around

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UK and Europe
Published
26 April 2004
Last activity
28 April 2004
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Philip Armstron
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  1. Spring has spring etc etc and thoughts turn to acquiring a
    cycle trailer in order to drag our 10 month old around the
    hills (ok, mounds) of Oxfordshire.

    I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
    combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of dropping
    the sprog sideways onto his head with a child seat and the
    bonus of getting luggage capacity with a trailer seems
    compelling.

    So, any cycle trailer recs?

    And questions:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets
    for little-uns are worthwhile, even given the
    acknowledged lack of evidence for any real protection
    offered to adults?

    (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
    heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
    weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain greater
    benefit from a suitable helmet.)

    Thoughts?

    cheers,

    Phil
    --
    kantaka.co.ukkantaka.co.uk .oOo. public key:
    kantaka.co.ukgpg.txt

  2. On 26/4/04 3:21 pm, in article [email hidden], "Philip

    Armstrong said:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    probably too young for a child seat but fine with a trailer,
    especially as you can strap a car seat in there.

    Quoted message said:


    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets
    for little-uns are worthwhile, even given the
    acknowledged lack of evidence for any real protection
    offered to adults?

    Yes and no. You have to be careful about the extra strain on
    the neck. I reckoned that a child in a trailer doesn't need
    a helmet. Maybe it's my riding but they don't fall asleep on
    the back of the bike, only in the trailer.

    Quoted message said:

    (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
    heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
    weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
    greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)

    I have never dropped the bike with a child on board. One
    does tend to be a lot more careful.

    Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if you
    get one that can be converted to a pushchair.

    ..d

  3. Philip Armstrong said:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    Its generally reckoned that 6 months is the youngest a child
    should be in a childseat, but the governing factor is the
    strength of the neck. I used a child seat for my eldest from
    7 months and she thoroughly enjoyed it, especially kicking
    dad up the rear. You will need to ensure that feet are
    protected from teh wheels - more important as the legs grow
    longer, and that teddy is firmly attached on a short piece
    of cord. You also need to be careful parking a bike. Never
    leave it resting against a wall (or anything)as the
    youngster can push the wall amd topple the bike over.

    However, that said I do beleive a trailer is a much better
    option and since then we have had another three children who
    have all taken the trailer route.

    Quoted message said:

    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
    little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
    lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
    adults?

    I think a helmet is a good idea, certainly in a child seat.
    I was convinced of this when on a cycle camping holiday in
    Corsica and my front low-rider pannier clipped a kerb. (I
    was doing about 2mph at the time). the bike fell over and my
    youngster got a small bruise on the forehead. I have never
    forgiven myself (although I am still firmly anti-
    compulsion). However, my children only wear helmets now if
    they wish to as I'd prefer they rode than not at all.

    Quoted message said:

    (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
    heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
    weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
    greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)

    See above.

    Quoted message said:

    Thoughts?

    I would certainly go for a trailer. We used a Burley d'Lite
    which although pricey was well-worth the money. Our other
    children went into it from the age of six weeks by using a
    carrycot strapped in. Once their necks were strong enough a
    light car seat was strapped into the trailer. From around
    3yrs 6months they went onto the backs of tandems (or tandem
    trike) with kiddiecranks and helped pull their younger
    siblings, before moving onto their own bikes.

    For one period we had kiddiecranks and a kiddieseat on a
    tandem trike and of course the stability problem did not
    arise. This was perhaps our best combination.

    The trailer handled superbly and other than the weight, had
    no effect on handling. There was also plenty of space at the
    rear for some of our camping equipment and other bits and
    bobs - such as nappies when very young. A big advantage was
    parking when we would just stop without the worry of having
    to unstrap from a kiddieseat on an unstable bike. When in
    the trailer the children never wore helmets. The tandems,
    and trailer have covered much of UK and Europe, and it was a
    sad day when we had to sell the trailer, albeit to a very
    good home. The tandem and tandem trike are still
    occasionally used.

    All four chlldren are now on their own bikes and regularly
    cycle, so something must have been right.

    Hope this helps.

    John B

  4. Quoted message said:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    No. My now strapping teenager spent much of his babyhood in
    a childseat on my bike, which was my then normal form of
    transport. He wore a helmet, was strapped in with a five-
    point harness, and went all over the place with me -
    shopping, leisure cycling... It hasn't adversely affected
    his brain as far as I can tell, as he passed a GCSE 2 years
    early and is now taking another bunch a year early :-)

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
    correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
    is switched off--

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    David Martin said:

    On 26/4/04 3:21 pm, in article 0givl1-
    [email hidden], "Philip Armstrong"

    Quoted message said:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    probably too young for a child seat but fine with a
    trailer, especially as you can strap a car seat in there.

    This was my inital impression.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
    little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
    lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
    adults?

    Yes and no. You have to be careful about the extra strain
    on the neck. I reckoned that a child in a trailer doesn't
    need a helmet. Maybe it's my riding but they don't fall
    asleep on the back of the bike, only in the trailer.

    Hmm. I can't help feel that the arguments about torsional
    injuries probably apply equally to children as well,
    especially as the ratio of head size / helmet size is even
    greater for them than for adults. So I'm a bit torn on the
    issue to be honest. Argle.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
    heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
    weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
    greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)

    I have never dropped the bike with a child on board. One
    does tend to be a lot more careful.

    bhsi.orgkidseats.htm suggests that 50% of child
    injuries from bike seats are head injuries. On the other
    hand, it's bhsi, so they're about as reliable as bhit over
    here AFAICS. ie not very...

    Quoted message said:

    Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if you
    get one that can be converted to a pushchair.

    I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
    used one & has an opinion?

    Phil
    --
    kantaka.co.ukkantaka.co.uk .oOo. public key:
    kantaka.co.ukgpg.txt

  6. Philip Armstrong said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
    used one & has an opinion?

    See my post.

    You won't regret it.

    John B

  7. We took our son out for his first trip in the Chariot Cougar
    trailer we've just bought. I really enjoyed it - it was a
    pleasure to pull although I now have a great deal of respect
    for Rickshaw pilots. I could certainly feel the extra load
    in me legs.

    The trailer itself is really nice - decent size (20"😉 spoked
    wheels with proper tyres, turns into a buggy easily, has
    adjustable leaf spring suspension and looks dead cool (I
    reckon) - from the number of people who stop to look at it I
    reckon it could pay for itself if I sold advertising space
    on the sides. We've also got a baby seat as an extra insert
    which has a head support and enabled the nipper to make his
    first trip on Saturday at the grand old age of 7 weeks.

    I think you can see the trailers on www.twoplustwo.uk.com.

    "Philip Armstrong" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0givl1-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Spring has spring etc etc and thoughts turn to acquiring a
    cycle trailer in order to drag our 10 month old around the
    hills (ok, mounds) of Oxfordshire.

    I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
    combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of dropping
    the sprog sideways onto his head with a child seat and the
    bonus of getting luggage capacity with a trailer seems
    compelling.

    So, any cycle trailer recs?

    And questions:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
    little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
    lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
    adults?

    (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
    heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
    weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
    greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)

    Thoughts?

    cheers,

    Phil
    --
    kantaka.co.ukkantaka.co.uk .oOo. public key:


    kantaka.co.ukgpg.txt

  8. In article <408d2b35$0$909$9b0f33e3@clyde>,

    Jon Spencer said:

    We took our son out for his first trip in the Chariot
    Cougar trailer we've just bought. I really enjoyed it - it
    was a pleasure to pull although I now have a great deal of
    respect for Rickshaw pilots. I could certainly feel the
    extra load in me legs.

    That looks like something out of an 80s sideways scrolling
    shoot'em'up
    🙂

    (love the ski attachment, shame I can't ski...)

    Phil

    --
    kantaka.co.ukkantaka.co.uk .oOo. public key:
    kantaka.co.ukgpg.txt

  9. Our little treasure started at 7 months too and absolutely
    loved it, he is average size and weight for his age.

    We stick him in the luxurious surroundings of a "Limo" see
    cyclesurgery.com20
    64/GroupID/13/CategoryID/34/v/

    It's got side protection and harness and pullover bar (ala
    modern rollercoasters) on the begative side when you're
    climbing hills it weighs a tonne (not literally, but
    seemingly) and balancing whilst putting in / taking out of
    seat can be tricky if baby gets a wriggle on... often best
    attempted with help if you have an "active" child :-)

    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?


    No. My now strapping teenager spent much of his babyhood
    in a childseat on my bike, which was my then normal form
    of transport. He wore a helmet, was strapped in with a
    five-point harness, and went all over the place with me
    - shopping, leisure cycling... It hasn't adversely
    affected his brain as far as I can tell, as he passed a
    GCSE 2 years early and is now taking another bunch a
    year early :-)

  10. On 26/4/04 4:06 pm, in article [email hidden], "Philip

    Armstrong said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    David Martin said:

    On 26/4/04 3:21 pm, in article 0givl1-
    [email hidden], "Philip Armstrong"

    Quoted message said:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    probably too young for a child seat but fine with a
    trailer, especially as you can strap a car seat in there.

    This was my inital impression.

    Other posters differ. I defer to them but suggest you make
    your own decision.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
    little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
    lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
    adults?

    Yes and no. You have to be careful about the extra strain
    on the neck. I reckoned that a child in a trailer doesn't
    need a helmet. Maybe it's my riding but they don't fall
    asleep on the back of the bike, only in the trailer.

    Hmm. I can't help feel that the arguments about torsional
    injuries probably apply equally to children as well,
    especially as the ratio of head size / helmet size is even
    greater for them than for adults. So I'm a bit torn on the
    issue to be honest. Argle.

    I'd reckon that you would get more direct impact than
    torsional so would reckon that a helmet is probably in its
    optimal use envelope there. I'm more concerned about the
    effect on the neck. If you have a child seat with a high
    back, some helmets will not fit comfortably on the head as
    they will clash with the seat back. Your call depending on
    which seat you have.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if
    you get one that can be converted to a pushchair.

    I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
    used one & has an opinion?

    We went the expensive way and got a Winther Dolphin. This
    has been excellent, surviving several children and a lot
    of shopping trips. The main advantage for me was that it
    has a solid ABS floor/seat construction rather than fabric
    so it is very wear resistant. Very nice to push as a
    pushchair as well. I fitted a klick-fix mount to the
    handlebar so I can just lock up the bike and shift the bar
    bag onto the trailer.

    The Cougar looks so cool, like one of those walkers out of
    star wars when on skis.

    ..d

  11. In message <[email hidden]>, Philip
    Armstrong <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    bhsi.orgkidseats.htm suggests that 50% of child
    injuries from bike seats are head injuries. On the other
    hand, it's bhsi, so they're about as reliable as bhit over
    here AFAICS. ie not very...

    I can believe this one though, most modern bike seats seem
    to have quite deep sides etc. so children are probably well
    protected in the body area from bike falls etc. the head is
    probably one area that could be injured more easily.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if you
    get one that can be converted to a pushchair.

    I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
    used one & has an opinion?

    It looks very nice :-)

    Never used one though, I bought a Chariot Chauffeur 2 years
    ago. Which I've been very happy with. Sturdy, folds very
    quickly and easily.

    I went for the Weber hitch option, and am pleased I did as
    it makes hitching and unhitching a very quick process -
    though the Chariot trailers have a newer hitch system which
    is better than the original.

    I notice from the two plus Two site that they also sell a
    seat support for younger children (it says 20 months) I
    might have considered that, as they do tend to flop over to
    one side when asleep because the seats lack side support,
    though Elinor never seems fussed by this I do have a blow up
    neck support cushion I some times use.

    I've never found much need myself for the pushchair option,
    I preferred to use a sling if necessary,

    <http://www.huggababy.co.uk/>

    though did on a few occasions take a pushchair bungeed in
    the 'boot'. Though I can see why other people might find
    it useful.
    --
    Chris French, Leeds

  12. In message <[email hidden]>,
    David Martin
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    We went the expensive way and got a Winther Dolphin. This
    has been excellent, surviving several children and a lot of
    shopping trips. The main advantage for me was that it has a
    solid ABS floor/seat construction rather than fabric so it
    is very wear resistant.

    I was a little concerned about possible wear before buying
    our Chariot (fabric floor). however, after 2 years of pretty
    heavy usage it isn't showing any signs of wear at all.

    I did chuck in a couple of cheap rubber car mats to keep it
    a bit cleaner.

    --
    Chris French, Leeds

  13. In message <408d2b35$0$909$9b0f33e3@clyde>, Jon Spencer
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    We took our son out for his first trip in the Chariot
    Cougar trailer we've just bought. I really enjoyed it - it
    was a pleasure to pull although I now have a great deal of
    respect for Rickshaw pilots. I could certainly feel the
    extra load in me legs.

    Wait till he is old enough to complain that you aren't going
    fast enough as you struggle up a steep hill......

    Quoted message said:


    The trailer itself is really nice - decent size (20"😉
    spoked wheels with proper tyres, turns into a buggy easily,
    has adjustable leaf spring suspension and looks dead cool
    (I reckon) - from the number of people who stop to look at
    it I reckon it could pay for itself if I sold advertising
    space on the sides.

    DD is the envy of the nursery when I use it to pick her up
    :-) The kids outside all gather up at the fence to ogle

    Quoted message said:

    We've also got a baby seat as an extra insert which has a
    head support and enabled the nipper to make his first trip
    on Saturday at the grand old age of 7 weeks.

    Is one of the child trailer specific ones, or just a
    standard car set? I know that you can fit a car seat, but
    they look too bulky to be able to use it with another child
    - which I hope to do after the 2nd arrives in Nov. I see
    that Chariot do one specifically for their trailers, and
    that Weber to a plastic 'Baby Bowl'
    --
    Chris French, Leeds

  14. chris French said:


    In message <[email hidden]>,
    David Martin
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    We went the expensive way and got a Winther Dolphin. This
    has been excellent, surviving several children and a lot
    of shopping trips. The main advantage for me was that it
    has a solid ABS floor/seat construction rather than
    fabric so it is very wear resistant.

    I was a little concerned about possible wear before
    buying our Chariot (fabric floor). however, after 2
    years of pretty heavy usage it isn't showing any signs
    of wear at all.

    I felt the same about our Burley d'Lite but it had seven
    years of pretty heavy use and not even a scuff. Excellent
    wearing quality.

    John B

  15. On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:21:20 +0100, [email hidden] (Philip

    Armstrong) said:

    Spring has spring etc etc and thoughts turn to acquiring a
    cycle trailer in order to drag our 10 month old around the
    hills (ok, mounds) of Oxfordshire.

    I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
    combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of dropping
    the sprog sideways onto his head with a child seat and the
    bonus of getting luggage capacity with a trailer seems
    compelling.

    Agreed. It's just a total nightmare getting a sleeping child
    into a bike seat while also holding the bike.

    Quoted message said:

    So, any cycle trailer recs?

    Burley D'lite did splendid service for mine.

    Quoted message said:

    And questions:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    I'm sure someone will say it's bad for their heads/necks or
    something. Mine both survived though.

    Quoted message said:

    Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
    little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
    lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
    adults?

    Consensus? I started off with helmets (in the child seat)
    but it became a bit of a chore. They would only tolerate
    wearing them if done up pointlessly loose and soon learned
    to fling them off.

    Certainly never bothered with them when using the
    trailer. Despite the manufacturer's promise of mortal
    danger caused by not wearing helmets (or, indeed, not
    being strapped in, daring to use the trailer 'in traffic'
    and 'cornering at >5mph'😉.

    Quoted message said:

    (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
    heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
    weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain greater
    benefit from a suitable helmet.)

    Thoughts?

    cheers,

    Phil

    --

    Transport & Urban Planning Blog

    now at notonmywatch.blogs.comnotonmywatch.blogs.com

  16. I forgot to mention a friend of a friend who used a 2nd hand
    car child seat, a rack and some octopus clips.

    Very thrifty, I suppose.
    --

    Transport & Urban Planning Blog

    now at notonmywatch.blogs.comnotonmywatch.blogs.com

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Not Responding said:
    Quoted message said:

    So, any cycle trailer recs?

    Quoted message said:

    Burley D'lite did splendid service for mine.

    imvho the Burley Cub is the best trailer ever made - it
    is certainly the one which has kept my customers and me
    very happy.

    --
    A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global
    Village millport.netmillport.net

  18. On 27/4/04 8:59 pm, in article [email hidden],

    Not Responding said:

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:21:20 +0100, [email hidden]
    (Philip Armstrong) wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
    combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of
    dropping the sprog sideways onto his head with a child
    seat and the bonus of getting luggage capacity with a
    trailer seems compelling.

    Quoted message said:

    Agreed. It's just a total nightmare getting a sleeping
    child into a bike seat while also holding the bike.

    I have a kick stand mounted on the trailer hitch. This holds
    the bike sufficiently well that I can put the child in the
    seat quite happily without needing to hold the bike.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And questions:

    Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

    I'm sure someone will say it's bad for their heads/necks
    or something. Mine both survived though.

    I used a cut down plastic car seat in the trailer padded
    with bits of a cheapo sleep mat. That provided sufficient
    head support. I used the trailer for little ones as I could
    keep them warm and dry out of the wind, rain and snow.

    Quoted message said:

    Consensus? I started off with helmets (in the child seat)
    but it became a bit of a chore. They would only tolerate
    wearing them if done up pointlessly loose and soon learned
    to fling them off.

    Mine are quite happy with helmets but I wouldn't not ride
    just because they wouldn't wear a helmet. If I thought it
    was that dangerous that they *must* wear a helmet I wouldn't
    be doing it.

    Quoted message said:


    Certainly never bothered with them when using the trailer.
    Despite the manufacturer's promise of mortal danger caused
    by not wearing helmets (or, indeed, not being strapped in,
    daring to use the trailer 'in traffic' and 'cornering at

    Quoted message said:

    5mph'😉.

    My trailer has documented limits of 20 mph (I've done 30mph
    but not with kids) and about 12 mph for corners. I've never
    flipped it though did come close when I clipped the kerb (no
    kids in at that time).

    The more weight you have in, the better for stability.

    I found that the suspension was too hard when the kids were
    very small.. rolling over painted lines would provide enough
    vibration to wake them up if the tyres wee at full pressure
    so I'd run them soft so they acred as suspension. Once the
    kids were over about 18 months or if I had a decent amount
    of luggage in the trailer the trailers suspension was fine.

    ..d

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