Drafting

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:48:45 +0100, davek <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My answer to unwanted drafters is to just ride faster so they can't keep
up.

It is of course the best answer and the most satisfying. Whether it's
available to you depends on the ability of the drafter. It's immensely
hard to simply ride away, on the flat, from a fit and determined
follower, especially in traffic.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

"the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

m-gineering said:

you want something solid at axleheight you can put your
frontwheel against. To high or low a bumper, a rotating wheel
or to much overhang on the truck increases the risks a lot.

Buses are good. But you have to know where all the bus stops
are.

The ones in Edinburgh are quite good, a Bus Stopping sign lights up inside
when someone wants off. I can remember a time when I used to try to draw
lines along the back of buses with my front wheel.
--

Err - yes. But what about when someone wants ON???

druidh

Adrian Boliston said:

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Unless you're in a situation where it's expected -- don't draft riders you
don't know.

It's very difficult to avoid the temptation to draft something like a moped if you
hear one buzzing up on your tail

I once had an impressed pizza delivery man grinning all over his face
and shouting back in a strong Indian accent, "30 miles an hour, very
good, very good."

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

Zog The Undeniable said:

If anything, it speeds up the lead rider marginally by preventing large
eddies forming behind him. It's more a "get on the front and do your
fair share" thing.

In theory it does, yes, but the effect is so slight at realistic
cycling speeds it's negligible.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

m-gineering said:

you want something solid at axleheight you can put your frontwheel
against. To high or low a bumper, a rotating wheel or to much overhang
on the truck increases the risks a lot.

There should be a law requiring all large motor vehicles to be fitted
with rollers at the back for the convenience of drafting cyclits.
Mounting a little speedometer there would also be a friendly gesture.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

Ewoud Dronkert said:

it needed a smilie

Nothing ever needed a smiley.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

David Martin [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Just freewheel till they pass you. Easily done. You just stop pedalling for
a bit.

And concede the lead? Never... must... go... faster... must... go...
faster.

I lost my first unofficial race on the way to work the other day. I went
left of the line of cars, he went right and then I got every traffic
light down Leith Walk. I caught him at the final set of lights at the
bottom though.

Jon

Dave Kahn [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

There should be a law requiring all large motor vehicles to be fitted
with rollers at the back for the convenience of drafting cyclits.
Mounting a little speedometer there would also be a friendly gesture.

A friend used to draft ambulances (Our school was near the hospital). He
stopped when I pointed out that an ambulance that was on call would just
radio it in if he hit them and that he'd have to wait for the arrival of
the next one.

Jon

JohnB said:

davek said:

m-gineering said:

3 (for the really difficult cases) ride on the edge of a deep pothole.

Surely this is as bad as braking? If you are aware there is a rider on
your tail and you fail to warn them of such dangers you are showing
little regard for their safety.

Shouldn't the rider behind always be able to see where they are riding
and to be able to pull up in the distance they can see to be clear?
Some 'friendly' advice on this _may_ be possible, but if they choose to
ignore it then it is hardly your fault if they come a cropper.

Quite. How many of the proponents of street drafting would condone
doing the same thing in their cars? All the same arguments about
efficiency apply, and at the same time you're helping to save the
environment because both cars would need less fuel per mile. And,
what's more, you're less likely to end up under the wheels of another
car if, oops, I meant when, it all goes horribly wrong.

Drafiting in racing is entirely different. First, it's the norm,
and second there are fewer unexpected obstacles in the way. Drafting
is perfectly acceptable in Formula 1 car racing, too, as is excess
speed, but you'd hardly expect people to do it in their cars on
the road, would you ... Oooops, silly me, of course you would!

--
Trevor Barton

D.M. Procida said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

it needed a smilie

Nothing ever needed a smiley.

Nevertheless it did have one.

John B

davek <[email hidden]> wrote:

: My answer to unwanted drafters is to just ride faster so they can't keep
: up.

And as a rough rule of thumb, if you get to 25 on the flat and they are
still there, they are probably safe to be there 🙂

That said, I don't let people draft me on the way to work since there's loads
of bad riding. I just slow down if necessary.

When I'm out of town I'm quite happy for people to sit on if they want to
and can. York being the sort of place it is, I find that I tend to know
most of the faster riders out there anyway.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A friend used to draft ambulances (Our school was near the hospital). He
stopped when I pointed out that an ambulance that was on call would just
radio it in if he hit them and that he'd have to wait for the arrival of
the next one.

That's the advantage of drafting buses. Three come along at once.

--
Dave...

druidh said:

"the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

m-gineering wrote:

> you want something solid at axleheight you can put your
> frontwheel against. To high or low a bumper, a rotating
> wheel or to much overhang on the truck increases the risks
> a lot.

Buses are good. But you have to know where all the bus stops
are.

The ones in Edinburgh are quite good, a Bus Stopping sign
lights up inside when someone wants off. I can remember a
time when I used to try to draw lines along the back of buses
with my front wheel. --

Err - yes. But what about when someone wants ON???

I know, that's the down side :-(
--
Mark

1x1 wheel, 3x2 wheels & 1x3 wheels.

Trevor Barton said:

Quite. How many of the proponents of street drafting would condone
doing the same thing in their cars? All the same arguments about
efficiency apply, and at the same time you're helping to save the
environment because both cars would need less fuel per mile. And,
what's more, you're less likely to end up under the wheels of another
car if, oops, I meant when, it all goes horribly wrong.

Drafiting in racing is entirely different. First, it's the norm,
and second there are fewer unexpected obstacles in the way. Drafting
is perfectly acceptable in Formula 1 car racing, too, as is excess
speed, but you'd hardly expect people to do it in their cars on
the road, would you ... Oooops, silly me, of course you would!

Yes, I have to agree with you there - it is identical to tailgating in
cars (though possibly done for different reasons).

This is why I said it needs trust. Following a cyclist even some way
back obscures visibility of potholes etc a lot. It may be less of a
problem if you're taller than whoever you're following, but if you're
shorter, they obscure a vast amount of what's in front.

Because of that, I tend to find if I cycle with people I don't know, I
easily get dropped - because others will be close enough to get some
benefit, while I won't take the chance. If I can stay close enough, it
makes life a lot easier, albeit more risky and worrysome, and it's not
something I like doing (plus, the benefits aren't always enough without
*really* being close on someone's wheel).

In a car, I never know the person in front, so I can never trust them.
It doesn't stop me being told I'm tailgating though, so I do get closer
than I should - but I don't do it to the same extent that I would
cycling (comparatively). Tailgating cars suffers from the same problem
- lack of visibility, lack of reaction time.

I'll use various methods to get a persistant tailgater out of my boot,
and yes, sometimes that does entail a dab of the brake lights.
Sometimes without a reduction in speed (some are too close to apply for
real) but other times if I think they're awake, (and all other methods
have failed) and not actually only an inch or two away I'll tromp the
brakes (carefully, I really don't want to damage my car) and make the
point that they are unacceptably close.

In most cases the sudden heat-pounding scare results in them backing off
and staying off.

Doing the same thing to a cyclist isn't something I'd do though. For a
start, you can talk to a cyclist following you, and ask them to get off
the wheel. And cars are, generally, a little more stable on the road
under that sort of condition than a cyclist would be. I'd be worried
about a cyclist following my wheel, too - maintaining a steady smooth
pace isn't a strong point of mine ;-)

--

Velvet

In message <[email hidden]>, Ewoud Dronkert
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Danny Colyer said:

Ewoud, I think you may have failed to understand the British sense
of humour. It made me laugh, anyway.

The evidence is overwhelming; he's British and thought it was funny,
you're British and find it funny, and I am not and do not.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Sigh. What a fuss. I'm really not that worked up. I love you all, it's
true! I'm relaxed now, hommmmmmmm.

If you're gonna hang around urc you'll need to get used to it :-)
--
Chris French, Leeds

Adrian Boliston said:

I guess you would need to be able to sprint and accelerate *fast* to catch
the drafter "off guard" to shake them off.

Yes, that is one way to do it - it helps if you slow down a bit first
and select a lower gear.

You can also (traffic allowing) pull off sideways so they are no longer
in your draft before accelerating.

d.

Trevor Barton said:

Quite. How many of the proponents of street drafting would condone
doing the same thing in their cars?

"Condone" doesn't come into it - we're talking about unwanted, uninvited
drafters. But if you find yourself with an unwanted drafter and you
deliberately take an action that might cause them to have an accident,
whether it's by braking sharply or causing them to hit a pothole, then
you are an irresponsible and dangerous fool.

d.

Dave Kahn said:

It's immensely
hard to simply ride away, on the flat, from a fit and determined
follower, especially in traffic.

The kind of riders that I would have trouble getting away from tend not
to need my draft. 😉

d.