"In particular, it is very difficult (as well as counterproductive) to try to keep power constantly within a certain range, or zone, at all times during a training session."
I don't "get" this comment, especially since I am always trying to train at a "certain" pretty constant power zone with my L4 and L5 workouts. Of course I am always trying to increase these power outputs over the weeks. ie: for L4 I try for .95 to 105% FTP but more often than not I try for 100%. For L5 it's pretty much 100% of my estimated VO2 max power all the time.
"In particular, it is very difficult (as well as counterproductive) to try to keep power constantly within a certain range, or zone, at all times during a training session."
I don't "get" this comment, especially since I am always trying to train at a "certain" pretty constant power zone with my L4 and L5 workouts. Of course I am always trying to increase these power outputs over the weeks. ie: for L4 I try for .95 to 105% FTP but more often than not I try for 100%. For L5 it's pretty much 100% of my estimated VO2 max power all the time.
was he talking about inside or outside? if inside then it's easy to contol your power output... if it is outside then with slight changes in grade of the road and changes in wind etc.. it's very hard to do this.. counter productive because in a race situation you'll never ride like that (you're missing out on addapation to that).. your power output will be all over the place so getting used to variable power output is a good thing... even for TTs it's advantageous to do variable power output on different grades... you'll be pulling your hair out for nothing... plus you'll get the similar adaptation with +/- ~10W anyway so you might as well just try to keep your power swinging around the right region...
What power meter are you using? What's the sample rate? With my Ergomo, you can go crazy trying to chase a consistant reading, especially if the sample rate is every second. Even on the trainer and riding at an average pace, say 175 watts, it's common to see the reading swing from 140 to 200+ watts. Since the Ergomo is a bottom bracket unit with readings taken from the left side only, different positions of the pedal stroke produce different wattage levels. I really think this was Dr. Coggan's point...not to try and chase things all over the map in an attempt to keep a steady reading. It's even more impossible outdoors than it is on the trainer! Of course by setting the sample rate to be a little less sensitive, like 2 seconds or 5 seconds, things smooth out a lot more.
I guess your mileage (wattage) may vary here depending on your system.
What power meter are you using? What's the sample rate? With my Ergomo, you can go crazy trying to chase a consistant reading, especially if the sample rate is every second. Even on the trainer and riding at an average pace, say 175 watts, it's common to see the reading swing from 140 to 200+ watts. Since the Ergomo is a bottom bracket unit with readings taken from the left side only, different positions of the pedal stroke produce different wattage levels. I really think this was Dr. Coggan's point...not to try and chase things all over the map in an attempt to keep a steady reading. It's even more impossible outdoors than it is on the trainer! Of course by setting the sample rate to be a little less sensitive, like 2 seconds or 5 seconds, things smooth out a lot more.
I guess your mileage (wattage) may vary here depending on your system.
Ironmax - could you specify that a little more... I use an SRM, and I would THINK that it works almost the same as an ergomo. BUT when I do my intervals I will ALMOST never see any swing in the reading of more than +/- 10 watts (sample rate set to 1 sec.). If reading swing from 140 to 200+ watts when you are in the same gear and with an even cadance - SOMETHING must be VERY WRONG... Maybee you got a very UNEVEN stroke?
Ironmax - could you specify that a little more... I use an SRM, and I would THINK that it works almost the same as an ergomo. BUT when I do my intervals I will ALMOST never see any swing in the reading of more than +/- 10 watts (sample rate set to 1 sec.). If reading swing from 140 to 200+ watts when you are in the same gear and with an even cadance - SOMETHING must be VERY WRONG... Maybee you got a very UNEVEN stroke?
I don't think it's so much the eveness or uneveness of the pedal stroke, but the sampling rate of the power meter. The Ergomo takes its reading from the force generated by the left crank arm only. Obviously there is more force on the downstroke than on the upstroke, hence the varied power reading if the sample rate is small enough. I don't know the ins and outs of how the PowerTap system works, so maybe what I see on the Ergomo does not pertain in your situation.
So are you saying that duing an L4 training ride I shouldn't be fighting to keep the power within the L4 range? If you don't fight the power flucations, and let the power drop below L4 for even 10 seconds at a time, then you would be "unloading" the legs, dumping lactateout of the legs, and the not getting full(stimulation) benefit of an L4 ride. That doesn't make sense to me.
So are you saying that duing an L4 training ride I shouldn't be fighting to keep the power within the L4 range? If you don't fight the power flucations, and let the power drop below L4 for even 10 seconds at a time, then you would be "unloading" the legs, dumping lactateout of the legs, and the not getting full(stimulation) benefit of an L4 ride. That doesn't make sense to me.
Metabolic response time to excercise is 30 seconds. You're body doesn't even "notice" ten seconds in terms of adaptation. Looking at average and normalized powers will give you the best idea of how you paced yourself, not looking at every little spike.
So are you saying that duing an L4 training ride I shouldn't be fighting to keep the power within the L4 range?
I'd say that it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
Quadsweep said:
If you don't fight the power flucations, and let the power drop below L4 for even 10 seconds at a time, then you would be "unloading" the legs, dumping lactateout of the legs, and the not getting full(stimulation) benefit of an L4 ride. That doesn't make sense to me.
Metabolic response time to excercise is 30 seconds. You're body doesn't even "notice" ten seconds in terms of adaptation. Looking at average and normalized powers will give you the best idea of how you paced yourself, not looking at every little spike.
That's not correct.
There will be a drop in blood lactate within seconds of a significant power drop into L2 for example. You may not feel much but a 10 second drop will make a difference and it will drop lactate levels.
The heart rate will not repond in 30 seconds but the buffering system sure the heck does.
I'd say that it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
I don't want to sound like an ass but what the hell do you mean? Duing an L4 training ride you are trying to build tolerance to high levels of lactate and to teach your body to deal with more and more lactate more and more efficiently. This will allow you to be able to put out more and more power per session over time. This is the whole purpose of L4 training.
There will be a drop in blood lactate withing seconds of a significant power drop into L2 for example. You may not feel much but a 10 second drop will make make a difference and it will drop latate levels.
Straight from Andy's USA Cycling Power Training document: "The half lives of of many physiological responses are directly or indirectly related to metobolic events in excercising muscle and such half lives are typically on the order of 30 seconds."
That's also why normalized power uses a thirty second rolling average.
Straight from Andy's USA Cycling Power Training document: "The half lives of of many physiological responses are directly or indirectly related to metobolic events in excercising muscle and such half lives are typically on the order of 30 seconds."
That's also why normalized power uses a thirty second rolling average.
Half life......half life.....so in 15 seconds you have a quarter life and a response.
You try riding at 100%FTP for 15 minutes on a trainer for example(more controlled example) and then drop your power to L2 for 10 seconds and you will feel the lactate drop as evidenced by less discomfort in you legs when you bump it back up to 100% FTP
I don't want to sound like an ass but what the hell do you mean? Duing an L4 training ride you are trying to build tolerance to high levels of lactate and to teach your body to deal with more and more lactate more and more efficiently. This will allow you to be able to put out more and more power per session over time. This is the whole purpose of L4 training.
I don't think lactate is the problem...
It's safe to say the purpose of l4 training is to raise FT (the direct purpose, anyway).
Regarding Andy's comment, I would think in terms of specificity.
It's safe to say the purpose of l4 training is to raise FT (the direct purpose, anyway).
Regarding Andy's comment, I would think in terms of specificity.
It sure the heck is. The main reason one guy can crank out 400 watts at 100% FTP and another can only crank out 300 watts has to do with lacate buffering. Of course others systems are involved but it all boils down to buffering abilty.
You try riding at 100%FTP for 15 minutes on a trainer for example(more controlled example) and then drop your power to L2 for 10 seconds and you will feel the lactate drop as evidenced by less discomfort in you legs when you bump it back up to 100% FTP
But it will also drop Average power slightly. Instead, try this: drop to 70% for ten seconds, then go to 130% for ten seconds. The average is balanced out.
There will be a drop in blood lactate within seconds of a significant power drop into L2 for example. You may not feel much but a 10 second drop will make a difference and it will drop lactate levels.
The mean residence time of lactate in the circulation is best measured in minutes, not seconds, so a 10 s reduction in exercise intensity would not have any discernable impact. Perhaps more importantly, blood lactate concentration per se has essentially nothing to do with the metabolic adaptations to endurance exercise training.
It sure the heck is. The main reason one guy can crank out 400 watts at 100% FTP and another can only crank out 300 watts has to do with lacate buffering. Of course others systems are involved but it all boils down to buffering abilty.
I'm no phsyiologist, but...
I believe lactate or "lactate acid" doesn't contribute at all to muscular fatigue. Instead, it's actually a fuel source. Lactate production is still used as a measure of intensity because it's been show to correlate well with excercise intensity, and with the production of what really does cause fatigue (which I think isn't really known).
But it will also drop Average power slightly. Instead, try this: drop to 70% for ten seconds, then go to 130% for ten seconds. The average is balanced out.
Yes that's true but you still have a perhaps an 8 second period of time where the body is NOT delaing with L4 levels of blood lacate. It is important to keep the lacate levels within L4 levels all the time, or as much as is physically possible, so best adaptation to high lacate can occur. Thats' why you should never do L4 rides that have stop signs or lights etc.
