downloadable heart rate monitors

"Chris Jain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking around at heart rate monitors and I notice that some, like the Suunto x6hr, allow you
to log your heart rate and loss/gainage and then download it to your PC. Then you can view the a
graph of this data.

I don't have any experience training with HRMs... How useful is this download feature? Is this
pretty useful for training purposes (& worth paying the extra bucks for?) Or is this just a cool
but not very useful geek feature?

Also, anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) with the Suunto x6hr, or would you
recommend a another HRM/altimeter combo?

Thanks, Chris cj_p [AT] sbcglobal [DOT] net

I have used them for many years and I get a lot of value from them. In fact, I doubt if I would use
an HRM very often if I could not record the workouts.

I would take a look at the software and then compare the data storage. You want to look at "sample
rate" (how often the data points are recorded) and total capacity (number of individual files and
hours of storage).

I am biased in favor of Polar because I have always had great performance and your will find that it
is the most popular brand. This is important if you wiull be exchanging the files with others. You
might want to hire a coach, who will ask for your archives or you might have a buddy one say that
you want to send the file to (for any number of reasons). The Polar models that use the IR link are
the only models I would consider because the "Sonic Link" models all have very limited storage and
you do not pay much more for the IR models. The last I heard, the Sonic Link models also got
inferior software, but I also heard that will change if it hasn't already. Service and support is
also excellent. Look at the 710/720 (for the bike features) or 810/820 (more memory and features but
you lose the bike specific metrics) models since those are the IR models I prefer.

You should also cross post with rec.bicycles.tech and consider removing *racing.

Chris Jain said:

I'm looking around at heart rate monitors and I notice that some, like the Suunto x6hr, allow you
to log your heart rate and loss/gainage and then download it to your PC. Then you can view the a
graph of this data.

I don't have any experience training with HRMs... How useful is this download feature?

Extremely useful, IMHO, but may depend on how you intend to you the hrm.

Is this pretty useful for training purposes (&

Quoted message said:

worth paying the extra bucks for?) Or is this just a cool but not very useful geek feature?

Depending on your experience level, you might find it useful to gauge effort real time until you
recognize the feel yourself. I found the beeps (Polar S410) for training zones were very hard
(=almost impossible) to hear when buried under sleeves in an Alaskan winter, and it's a pain to look
at watch when running trails in dark - or daylight for that matter. With experience, I recognized
the effort levels based by feel, and I became less dependent on the hrm in real time (but still use
it as a double-check when things don't seem quite right or I'm doing something new). While I train
by effort level (hilly trails, both for running and mt biking), the primary use *now* of my hrm is
to download the data and look at things that I might have overlooked during the run or bike - and to
log training by zone (although I don't actually have this implemented in my database log yet).

But a lot depends on how you intend to use it.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Chris Jain said:

I'm looking around at heart rate monitors and I notice that some, like the Suunto x6hr, allow you
to log your heart rate and loss/gainage and then download it to your PC. Then you can view the a
graph of this data.

For one example of a rec.running reader, look at home.terminal.dkmvej.gifOpen ↗

You can see where I took a break to pee.You can see the typical increase in HR over a long run. You
can somewhat gess where the hills are.

The graph is from my Polar S610i - which store 22+ hours worth of samples at 5 sec intervals, and
transfers them using an optional IR interface. Supposedly irDa will work with some hardware on some
versions of Windows 98.

Quoted message said:

I don't have any experience training with HRMs... How useful is this download feature? Is this
pretty useful for training purposes (& worth paying the extra bucks for?) Or is this just a cool
but not very useful geek feature?

I do not train much using my HRM. For me I need at least 43 splits for races (one for each km and
one for the last 195 meters in a 42.195 km race).

I like to have more splits for when I am on holiday, and so that I do not have to transfer to the
computer each day.

I also learned something about my HR. I know that it is around 35-36 BPM when I am in good shape.
And my max is 195-200 when in shape.

I also know that 163 was the average of my onlyu marathon until now, so I try to keep my long runs
below 165. My 10 km PR was set with a HR of 173, and I usually build up lactic acid around 178.

So on the above graph, between the 17 km and 20 km marks, I was aware that my HR was above 175, and
that I was pushing it. I kept hanging in, but it was no blow for me that I had to relax a bit.

Thats for using it for racing, where I only use it to alarm me when the HR is too high. Usually I
have a pretty good feeling with the speed after a couple splits, better than the HR will tell me.

For training I use it to keep my speed down, and on hard days uses it to get my pulse up, and not
resting too much before increasing the pace again.

I do not do much of the 10x 400m w/ 30 secs recovery type of running. I run in the woods, on dirt /
gravel roads.

Quoted message said:

Also, anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) with the Suunto x6hr, or would you
recommend a another HRM/altimeter combo?

The HRM part is supposedly borrowed/licensed from Polar (another Finnish company). But look at the
Polar range as well. I am on my 2nd and happy.

"Povl H. Pedersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The HRM part is supposedly borrowed/licensed from Polar (another Finnish company).

Pisses me off that little Finland can corner the market in HRM's and all the UK/US can come up with
is overpriced technojunk like the Timex GPS system.

Frazer.

apusapus said:

"Povl H. Pedersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The HRM part is supposedly borrowed/licensed from Polar (another Finnish company).

Pisses me off that little Finland can corner the market in HRM's and all the UK/US can come up
with is overpriced technojunk like the Timex GPS system.

Did the US ever make any good watches ? It is a european tradition, learned by the japanese.

In rec.running Povl H. Pedersen <[email hidden]> wrote: ....

Quoted message said:

Did the US ever make any good watches ? It is a european tradition, learned by the japanese.

watches, or more precisely, portable sun-dials are believed to have originated in egypt or
mesopotamia (modern day iraq).

in europe, it started with france and germany (in alphabetical order) and from there it spread all
over europe (old and new) especially to geneva in switzerland which had an influx of refugees, a lot
of whom were watch makers. so, now we have the world famous swiss watches.

so, it's probably more like an egyptian/mesopotamian tradition learned by the europeans and
perfected by the japanese.

jobs

About the IR sensors on Polar heart rate monitors; do you have to purchase Polar's own IR interface
to use with your computer's serial/USB port? Or will any old IR interface work with the IR sensor on
the HRM? Because I have an old IBM laptop that has a built-in IR interface on it, and if I can use
that with the HRM then it would save me from having to buy an IR interface.

J. Spaceman

Quoted message said:

The last I heard, the Sonic Link models also got inferior software, but I also heard that will
change if it hasn't already.

Early models, such as my Polar s410 (with Sonic Link), came with PC Coach Lite. That was definitely
rubbish. pccoach.comindex.htmOpen ↗ Maybe the full version is better?

I upgraded to the Polar Precision Performance Software version 4.0, which is now the standard
software package supplied with the HRMs.
polar.fiPPP.htmlOpen ↗

It is a terrific piece of software and integrates nicely with my long time running/cycling log
software, RunLog. pegasussoftware.compegasussoftware.comOpen ↗

Perdy.

"Jason Spaceman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

About the IR sensors on Polar heart rate monitors; do you have to purchase Polar's own IR
interface to use with your computer's serial/USB port? Or will any old IR interface work with the
IR sensor on the HRM? Because I have an old IBM laptop that has a built-in IR interface on it, and
if I can use that with the HRM then it would save me from having to buy an IR interface.

J. Spaceman

Sometimes yes but it is only about 40 bucks for serial or USB versions. I believe the 720 addressed
the compatibility issue with most systems. The 710 did not work with very many systems at all. You
may find the ergonomics of the Polar IR device to be worth the price, but give it a shot.

"Perdy Tired" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The last I heard, the Sonic Link models also got inferior software, but I also heard that will
change if it hasn't already.

Early models, such as my Polar s410 (with Sonic Link), came with PC Coach Lite. That was
definitely rubbish. pccoach.comindex.htmOpen ↗

Maybe

Quoted message said:

the full version is better?

I upgraded to the Polar Precision Performance Software version 4.0, which

is

Quoted message said:

now the standard software package supplied with the HRMs.
polar.fiPPP.htmlOpen ↗

It is a terrific piece of software and integrates nicely with my long time running/cycling log
software, RunLog. pegasussoftware.compegasussoftware.comOpen ↗

Perdy.

Good deal. Thanks for confirming this. I still have a hard time recommending the Sonic Link models,
but that reduces that pain quite a bit. I also am a fan of the PPP software, especially v 3 and
later (32 bit).

I git a Polar 710 and it is the business. Mine is the cycling version and you can Infra Red your
records from the monitor into the PC where it does all sorts of analysis. Cannot recommend mine
highly enough. OSB

"Chris Jain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking around at heart rate monitors and I notice that some, like the Suunto x6hr, allow you
to log your heart rate and loss/gainage and then download it to your PC. Then you can view the a
graph of this data.

I don't have any experience training with HRMs... How useful is this download feature? Is this
pretty useful for training purposes (& worth paying the extra bucks for?) Or is this just a cool
but not very useful geek feature?

Also, anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) with the Suunto x6hr, or would you
recommend a another HRM/altimeter combo?

Thanks, Chris cj_p [AT] sbcglobal [DOT] net

(Chris Jain) said:

I'm looking around at heart rate monitors and I notice that some, like the Suunto x6hr, allow you
to log your heart rate and loss/gainage and then download it to your PC. Then you can view the a
graph of this data.

I don't have any experience training with HRMs... How useful is this download feature? Is this
pretty useful for training purposes (& worth paying the extra bucks for?) Or is this just a cool
but not very useful geek feature?

Also, anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) with the Suunto x6hr, or would you
recommend a another HRM/altimeter combo?

Thanks, Chris cj_p [AT] sbcglobal [DOT] net

Hi Chris,

My Polar 510 has proved totally reliable for the last 4 years... I haven't even needed to change the
batteries yet, and I train with it 10+ hours per week. The SonicLink interface didn't work with the
PCCoach lite and one of my old laptops, but this was fixed a while ago. I now use PC Coach ( I used
to use PPP a lot, but got scared as one of the things it tells you is the total number of heartbeats
in a workout... and that can be really scary! ), and I find it's a real motivator as well as a
running log.

HTH,

Steve

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have used them for many years and I get a lot of value from them. In fact, I doubt if I would
use an HRM very often if I could not record the workouts.

I would take a look at the software and then compare the data storage. You want to look at "sample
rate" (how often the data points are recorded) and total capacity (number of individual files and
hours of storage).

I am biased in favor of Polar because I have always had great performance and your will find that
it is the most popular brand. This is important if you wiull be exchanging the files with others.
You might want to hire a coach, who will ask for your archives or you might have a buddy one say
that you want to send the file to (for any number of reasons). The Polar models that use the IR
link are the only models I would consider because the "Sonic Link" models all have very limited
storage and you do not pay much more for the IR models. The last I heard, the Sonic Link models
also got inferior software, but I also heard that will change if it hasn't already. Service and
support is also excellent. Look at the 710/720 (for the bike features) or 810/820 (more memory and
features but you lose the bike specific metrics) models since those are the IR models I prefer.

You should also cross post with rec.bicycles.tech and consider removing *racing.

I got the Suunto x6hr a few days ago and have been playing with it. It was a gift, but I've been
given the go-ahead to trade it in if something else would work better. Unfortunately I don't have
any other experience with heart rate monitors to compare it with.

One of the features of the Suunto x6hr is that it has a pretty accurate barometric altimeter built
in. This should be particularly useful for me because I intend to use if for mountaineering, in
addition to running, cycling, etc. But I was just looking at this comparison chart
healthchecksystems.compolarcompare.htmOpen ↗ and I see that the Polar S-720 also has an
altimeter (and seems to be quite a bit less expensive as well). (The chart for Suunto is
healthchecksystems.comsuunto compare.htmOpen ↗ ).

The Suunto x6hr interfaces with your PC via a wire connection (included with the watch) which clips
to the watch and connects to a PC serial port. Seems quick and easy.

On the downside, my x6hr seems to have trouble picking up the heart signal in my car with the engine
running or on the stairmaster. Due to interference no doubt, but I find this annyoing, particularly
on the stairmaster. I'm not sure if a Polar would have fared any better.

It seems that Suunto and Polar work together. For example the Suunto Advizor actaully uses Polar HRM
technology (including a Polar-labeld transmitter). I'm not sure if the x6hr also uses this (just
branded as Suunto) or whether its their own proprietary technology.

I do not find the Suunto software particularly easy to use, nor is the documentation very good. But
maybe it is fine, once you play with it and learn how to use it. (Just looking at the Polar web
stie, I see that they have a pretty comprehensive manual for their software. The Sunnto software
only has a rather simple online help function--no actual manual.

"One Step Beyond" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I git a Polar 710 and it is the business. Mine is the cycling version and you can Infra Red your
records from the monitor into the PC where it does all sorts of analysis. Cannot recommend mine
highly enough. OSB

How do you like the altitude feature on the 710? Do you know if it is temperature
compensated? Thanks.

The altitude bit is the one weakness of the device in my opinion. The temperature sensor can be
wayward too at times. However, I have calibrated my Ploar against more accurate measurements in the
lab and it comes out almost spot on for heart rate and distance covered. Steve "Chris Jain"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"One Step Beyond" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I git a Polar 710 and it is the business. Mine is the cycling version

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you can Infra Red your records from the monitor into the PC where it

does

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all sorts of analysis. Cannot recommend mine highly enough. OSB

How do you like the altitude feature on the 710? Do you know if it is temperature
compensated? Thanks.

The Polar altitude feature is definitely _not_ reliable. When workout at home, the altitude chart
shows that I have been descending, and end up 50-100 feet lower than where I started. My house
isn't moving.

(Chris Jain) said:

How do you like the altitude feature on the 710? Do you know if it is temperature
compensated? Thanks.

[email hidden] wrote in news:3f99bc0e.9648047 @news.west.earthlink.net:

Quoted message said:

The Polar altitude feature is definitely _not_ reliable. When workout at home, the altitude chart
shows that I have been descending, and end up 50-100 feet lower than where I started. My house
isn't moving.

(Chris Jain) said:

How do you like the altitude feature on the 710? Do you know if it is temperature
compensated? Thanks.

Are you in California?

Are you a heel-striking clydesdale on a treadmill?

Do you have MCI-Worldcom stock in your pocket?

Can't think of any other possible reasons...

Tom

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Polar altitude feature is definitely _not_ reliable. When workout at home, the altitude chart
shows that I have been descending, and end up 50-100 feet lower than where I started. My house
isn't moving.

Altitude measurements based on the barometric pressure will always be subject for changes in air
pressure due natural metrology changes (change in weather). I have compared the altimeter in my
Polar 710i with a laboratory barometer and there were no noticeable instability that could not be
explained by changes in barometric pressure over a 24 hr period. These changes are typically less
50 ft during a long training pass if there are no dramatic changes in weather conditions. If you
want an altimeter that is independent of weather, you better buy a big and bulky GPS if you have
the bucks.

Erik Lindeberg, Trondheim, Norway