downhill turning

Quoted message said:

I had an unpleasant crash this winter: a wet spot followed by a left
hairpin turn. Once I started leaning into the turn, it felt like I was
riding on ice. It's been 6 months and the bruises are still pretty
spectacular. But the worst bruise is on my mind. I feel extremely
uncomfortable leaning into turns since then, even if the pavemen is
totally dry. I just don't know how far I can safely lean w/o going into
a skid.

If you are pedaling it is usually clearance limited.

Quoted message said:

Are there special tires that are stickier than others? I crashed on
Michelin Carbons (red stripes) which are supposedly designed for wet
weather - did not help.

There are tires for just about anything, including ice racing tires with
nail type studs sticking out.

Quoted message said:

I guess I can only feel comfortable once I know exactly what to do if I
get into a skid. How does one train for that? Sounds like a tough way
to train - either you leave flesh on the pavement, or you don't.

You are better to just lay it down and skid rather than try to recover
and go over the handlebars.

Quoted message said:

There was an article in Velonews by a guy who won a famous descent race
in LA. He says he lifts his bike when it strats to skid...

Lifts it how?

Quoted message said:

By comparison, I think I am good in descending on nordic skis, to a
point where some people consider me nuts. I guess, it's because I know
exactly what to do if anything goes wrong. But on a bike - I am totally
clueless. I am used to going 50+ mph on straight downhills, just by
letting it go and hoping that nothing bad happens.

If there is nothing to hit then the worst that can reasonably happen is
you will do a lot of bouncing and rolling, and yes, losing skin. Better
than hitting a tree or a car though but you could get really unlucky and
break something like, ummm, your neck.

But I have no idea

Quoted message said:

what to do in an emergency.

Stay down and skid or you chance a flip. Get away from the bicycle if
you can and let it go it's own way since you have your own trajectory to
worry about.
If by any chance you can get your hands on a small motorcycle of the
dirt bike variety and find a dirt oval you can practice breaking the
rear loose at about 15 - 20 MPH. Just wear armor since you will likely
go down more than once. It is good practice and hard to get hurt at low
speed, also fun. The hard part is finding a beater 100cc bike to ride.
Have fun,
Bill Baka

A shy person asks anonymously:

Quoted message said:

I had an unpleasant crash this winter: a wet spot followed by a left
hairpin turn. Once I started leaning into the turn, it felt like I
was riding on ice. It's been 6 months and the bruises are still
pretty spectacular. But the worst bruise is on my mind. I feel
extremely uncomfortable leaning into turns since then, even if the
pavemen is totally dry. I just don't know how far I can safely lean
w/o going into a skid.

Quoted message said:

Are there special tires that are stickier than others? I crashed on
Michelin Carbons (red stripes) which are supposedly designed for wet
weather - did not help.

No colored rubber toire is designed for wet weather. Just ask
yourself how many motor vehicle colored tires are on the marklet.

Quoted message said:

I guess I can only feel comfortable once I know exactly what to do
if I get into a skid. How does one train for that? Sounds like a
tough way to train - either you leave flesh on the pavement, or you
don't.

You can lean much farther than you believe. It is lubrication by
water, loose grit, or oily substances that slide unpredictably.

Quoted message said:

There was an article in Velonews by a guy who won a famous descent race
in LA. He says he lifts his bike when it strats to skid...

That is giant BS. Watch bicycle racing videaos and you'll see that
once the front end slides when banked over, it is irrecoverable. On
the other hand, racers are often not great cornering experts as you
can see from watching GdI and Tdf videos.

Quoted message said:

By comparison, I think I am good in descending on nordic skis, to a
point where some people consider me nuts. I guess, it's because I
know exactly what to do if anything goes wrong. But on a bike - I
am totally clueless. I am used to going 50+ mph on straight
downhills, just by letting it go and hoping that nothing bad
happens. But I have no idea what to do in an emergency.

That has nothing to do with cornering on a wheeled single track
vehicle. Water skiers do even more than snow board descenders do and
they far outclass skiers on snow.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/
http://tinyurl.com/npmog

Jobst Brandt

Jobst,

Judging from this picture you do know how to turn. 🙂 That's almost a
45 deg angle:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/images/tiretest.jpg

I can't see myself leaning even half as far. I wear a helmet at all
times though 🙂

(snip) (oops ... didn't mean to whack off OP's info.)

Quoted message said:

- either you leave flesh on the pavement, or you don't.

That's my experience. More to the point, either it dumps or it doesn't.

Quoted message said:

There was an article in Velonews by a guy who won a famous descent race
in LA. He says he lifts his bike when it strats to skid...

He must have uncanny intuition and near-instantaneous reaction time. There have
been instances when I went down so fast that I almost wasn't aware of it before
I hit the ground. The last time was this past November. I had just left grass
and was barely rolling when I reached concrete ... ice on concrete, that is. I
was not in a turn - undoubtedly was off-balance but not turning - when bike went
sideways and I went down on left hip and knee, and sanded a big hole through my
best pair of chinos. Lift the bike? I didn't have time to move left foot off
pedal, much less start man-handling the bike.

(snip)

--
Michael

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(snip) (oops ... didn't mean to whack off OP's info.)

Quoted message said:

- either you leave flesh on the pavement, or you don't.

That's my experience. More to the point, either it dumps or it doesn't.

What if you aren't on pavement? Last weekend I did loop to the north of
town. On the way back I had several choices. One, Jones Baseline, is dirt
but hard packed and really quite pleasant to ride, especially southward.
Another, 6th Sideroad N, is also dirt.

As I had never ridden 6th I decided to give it a try. It was an experience.
It had a thick gravel/stone surface rather than hard-packed. I don't know
why the difference, perhaps the latter was used less and retained it's
covering but going down some the hills - even on an mtb - was interesting.
the gravel was so thick I was concerned about my front wheel skidding out on
the steeper declines.

the only lesson I learned is to go as fast as you can, lean as far as
you can, enjoy the moment, and hope it all goes well.

the guy is a former BMX rider, if it helps.