Downhill speeds...or: I must be getting old

Fred Hall said:

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really cool
and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I could
go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me?

lord i'd think so. i did near 50mph on my ride yesterday for about 5 minutes.
it gets the blood going but i no longer fear alpine cows ..

... since a month ago i fear front blow outs. i had my first one doing ~45mph
into horseshoe bend, idaho and luckily was able to stop pretty easily. i
was laughing my ass off when i came to a stop, tho ..

... i was laughing my ass off because i was so happy not to be smeared all
over the road. my god that scared the [censored] out of me.

Quoted message said:

Or will I be a wuss the rest of my biking days?

practice, practice, practice.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for listening (reading)

sure. nothing to worry about here.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Fred Hall" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me? Or will I be a wuss the rest of my biking days?

Some get accustomed to those speeds, others don't. The only way to determine
which of those groups you belong to- I almost wrote "fall into" but I figured
that would be a poor choice of phrasing- is to keep riding the descents. If you
don't begin to feel more comfortable at the higher speeds, stop.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

P.S.- 30 mph on the flats is even more fun! :-)

Hunrobe said:

Some get accustomed to those speeds, others don't. The only way to determine
which of those groups you belong to- I almost wrote "fall into" but I figured
that would be a poor choice of phrasing- is to keep riding the descents. If you
don't begin to feel more comfortable at the higher speeds, stop.

it's not quite that simple. if you drag your brakes to keep a speed you're
comfortable with you run the risk of overheating. that's only applicable on
serious descents but that's where the problem manifests itself most strongly
anyway and 30mph just ain't that fast on a descent.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

Fred Hall wrote:
|| Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
|| experienced...
||
|| Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek
|| 1500, after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a
|| Gary Fisher hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have
|| been cruising around, a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and
|| descents.
||
|| Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a
|| certain road I knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to
|| climb the hill, I made the route so it went down the hill. Long
|| story short, it's a pretty good hill and even with a decent headwind
|| according the the ol' computer I was doing about 35 mph down the
|| hill for a good three plus minutes. Needless to say, the knuckles
|| were white from hanging on for dear life and all I could picture was
|| having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow out,
|| and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made it
|| to the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.
||
|| Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was
|| really cool and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much
|| faster I could go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self
|| preservation I guess. So my question is, with more descents under
|| my belt will 30+ mph downhills not even phase me? Or will I be a
|| wuss the rest of my biking days? I know the pro racers are hitting
|| what - 60 mph sometimes (or more) - so I'm not even in that
|| league...watching the OLN special on Lance's 5 wins last night they
|| pointed out he averaged about 33 mph during his time trials...which
|| tells me he's flying at some points...

Hey -- this is supposed to be fun. You're not Lance and you don't have to
measure up to anyone's expectations. Hence. slow down to where you feel
comfortable, if that makes you happy and keeps you riding. That's what I
do...and I'm 46. I don't believe too many people would call me a wuss --
to my face at least (I'm a heavy rider too, so downhill speeds freak me
'cause I get worried about being able to stop). My focus is on building up
to long distances first, so speed is secondary (well, up to a point, that
is).

Enjoy riding.

Ps...I watch OLN and have exactly the same thoughts as you 🙂 However, I
try to do my Lance imitation while climbing hills, not doing down hills 🙂
So next time go up that hill!!!

Fred Hall said:

Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
experienced...

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek 1500,
after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a Gary Fisher
hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have been cruising around,
a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and descents.

Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a certain road I
knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to climb the hill, I made
the route so it went down the hill. Long story short, it's a pretty good
hill and even with a decent headwind according the the ol' computer I was
doing about 35 mph down the hill for a good three plus minutes. Needless to
say, the knuckles were white from hanging on for dear life and all I could
picture was having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow
out, and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made it to
the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really cool
and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I could
go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me? Or will I be a wuss the rest of my biking days? I know the
pro racers are hitting what - 60 mph sometimes (or more) - so I'm not even
in that league...watching the OLN special on Lance's 5 wins last night they
pointed out he averaged about 33 mph during his time trials...which tells me
he's flying at some points...

Thanks for listening (reading)

I think some of it is trusting the bike and some of it is the bike itself.
I'm going by memory here, heh, as well as some of what I've read, b/c I
don't do that kind of downhill at this point, although I may get to that in
a year.

I've read a couple messages, not sure where, and guys say '...this bike is
so stable, that downhills that I wouldn't attempt are a breeze.' Others can
chip in and give their recent experiences, but it makes sense to me. I'd
guess a Trek 1500 would be a stable bike, but I don't know.

So I'm thinking as you do more of these, you'll get used to it, and will
learn to trust your bike. I'd suggest you re-assure yourself by making sure
the bike is tuned up and tire pressure is good before making future 'max
speed attempts'. Another thought is have a friend ride with you who is used
to taking hills like this, and it seems like riding with someone would also
be re-assuring and enabling.

HTH,

-Badger

"Fred Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really

cool

Quoted message said:

and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I could
go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me?

Security with high downhill speeds definitely comes with experience, but
there are ways to increase your security more quickly.

1) You didn't say what position you were descending in -- i.e., in the
drops, on the brake hoods, etc. I find that being in the drops is the most
secure position, since your center of gravity is the lowest. It gets harder
to tip over! Your hands are also close to the brakes -- i.e., you can get a
nice handfull of brakes if absolutely necessary.

2) Being in the drops puts you in a more aerodynamic position, but you can
still "sit up" if you need to. Speed is all about aerodynamics -- the more
"aero" you are, the faster you will go. The less aero you are, the slower
you'll go. And thus, what I call the "air brake". Sit up, and you'll slow
down. It gives you multiple braking options -- using your brakes in a turn
is a really bad idea (your wheels can slide out), but "air braking" is safe,
and it can slow you down pretty darn quick.

3) Cornerning technique becomes paramount as the speedometer creeps upwards.
Just like with driving -- paradoxically, the faster you're going, the slower
your movements become. Nothing sudden. Think about "lengthening" a turn --
the turn starts long before the road itself turns. This is where watching
the pros can really help -- watch the path (i.e., the line) that they take
through turns. Watch how early they start turning -- they've straightened
the turn so much that they'll use the whole road. Obviously you don't want
to use the whole road, but I've certainly used entire lanes.

Let your speed build up slowly. i.e., by changing your body position, you
can really alter your speed down any given hill. Get comfortable descending
it in one position, then get a bit more tucked in and you'll go faster.
Build up your confidence again at your now faster speed. Repeat. Keep in
mind that everybody has a "freak out" point, depending on the smoothness of
the pavement, the tightness of the turns, etc.

Enjoy the practice! Downhill is fun!
Kevin

"Fred Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
experienced...

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek 1500,
after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a Gary Fisher
hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have been cruising

around,

Quoted message said:

a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and descents.

I'll tell you, a lot of it depends on the bike. I used to ride an aluminum
KHS that got twitchy during descents above 30mph. It scared the [censored] out of
me, even if I leaned my knee against the top tube. I upgraded to a steel
Schwinn Peloton and it's a totally different beast. I've seen 50mph and it's
steady as a rock. Different geometry, different ride. The KHS was full on
racer geometry, while the Schwinn is based on classic Paramount geometry, or
so I've been told.

If it was a paved road 35 should not have been all that much. I used to
come down highway 9 from Saratoga Summit to the town of Saratoga in
California at anywhere from 40 to 60 MPH but it was a good paved road
and I was only a crazy 15 year old on a Peugot 10 speed with really
high gears so I could pedal fast. It was worth it just to see the looks
on the faces of the car drivers as I passed them on the left. I probably
would not do it again but the memory is a good one. No potholes, just
good blacktop and no funky switchbacks. Just don't try 35 on a blind fire
trail or you could get some big surprises.
Bill Baka

Fred Hall said:

Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
experienced...

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek 1500,
after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a Gary
Fisher
hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have been cruising
around,
a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and descents.

Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a certain
road I
knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to climb the hill, I made
the route so it went down the hill. Long story short, it's a pretty good
hill and even with a decent headwind according the the ol' computer I was
doing about 35 mph down the hill for a good three plus minutes.
Needless to
say, the knuckles were white from hanging on for dear life and all I
could
picture was having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow
out, and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made
it to
the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really
cool
and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I could
go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me? Or will I be a wuss the rest of my biking days? I know
the
pro racers are hitting what - 60 mph sometimes (or more) - so I'm not
even
in that league...watching the OLN special on Lance's 5 wins last night
they
pointed out he averaged about 33 mph during his time trials...which
tells me
he's flying at some points...

Thanks for listening (reading)

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

I think that one portion of feeling comfortable going fast downhill is growing
up on a bike and having those opportunities to get that comfort zone
established.

I didn't really have those opportunities much, and I didn't bike much at all
for about 40 years.

So, at 64, I am not a fast downhiller, nor do I plan to be, nor do I want to
be.

The thought of a blowout at 50-60 mph, or hitting gravel, or a squirrel running
out in front sort of blows my mind.

So, I go at my own comfort zone speed, which sort of depends upon conditions
and how I am feeling at the moment.

Strangely, if I am on a steep descent and I then see that it is going to level
off, or better yet, go up hill, I will be likely to let it go as fast as I can
- I may go over 40 mph in that circumstance. But if I see it is going to
continue and continue downhill, then I hold it to 35 mph or less, and on a long
downhill (like the 8 miles of sharp downhill into Steamboat Springs from Rabbit
Ears Pass) I will even stop, let things (and me) cool down and then start
again.

I guess at 64, caution (and perhaps slower reflexes) becomes more important.

http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

Fred Hall said:

Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
experienced...

You will probably get used to it, especially if it is straight or with gentle
bends, but go at a speed you feel comfortable at. You're not racing and the
faster you go the greater the risk of a crash and of a worse injury.
I also drive a motorcycle and at 40+, I'm usually wearing leathers, impact
absorbing armor and a full face helmet so I definitely feel "naked" whenever the
speedo on the bicycle goes over 30; especially since the only bad accident I've
ever had was on my bicycle (last year) at about 17mph - broken collar and road
rash.

Ben

I will add a little to the excellent advice Kevin wrote. If you are at the
actual limit for the bike/road combination, any slight error can cause you
big trouble. Lacking experience, as you say, you are not sure how near the
limit you are. So, this is a form of practice I would suggest: ride at a
speed which is fast enough to give you enjoyment, but which you KNOW is
perfectly safe. Then, without increasing your speed, tighten your turn
slightly, or introduce a little weaving to your path, to see how you and the
bike react. If you explore your limit this way, you always have an easy way
to back off if you feel you have gone too far. Just straighten the path
again. Does this make sense?

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I will add a little to the excellent advice Kevin wrote. If you are at

the

Quoted message said:

actual limit for the bike/road combination, any slight error can cause you
big trouble. Lacking experience, as you say, you are not sure how near

the

Quoted message said:

limit you are. So, this is a form of practice I would suggest: ride at a
speed which is fast enough to give you enjoyment, but which you KNOW is
perfectly safe. Then, without increasing your speed, tighten your turn
slightly, or introduce a little weaving to your path, to see how you and

the

Quoted message said:

bike react. If you explore your limit this way, you always have an easy

way

Quoted message said:

to back off if you feel you have gone too far. Just straighten the path
again. Does this make sense?

I agree and also if you need more stopability on the street try shifting
back a little while in the drop position. this may reduce the risk of a
tumble if the front tire blows or if you hit a pothole while braking. my
commute includes a 35+ descent in the city (if the traffic is fast enough!)
on a bumpy street. i also try to memorize the road surface since i ride
there most days.

Fred Hall said:

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek
1500, after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a
Gary Fisher hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have
been cruising around, a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and
descents.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a
certain road I knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to
climb the hill, I made the route so it went down the hill. Long
story short, it's a pretty good hill and even with a decent headwind
according the the ol' computer I was doing about 35 mph down the
hill for a good three plus minutes. Needless to say, the knuckles
were white from hanging on for dear life and all I could picture was
having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow out,
and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made it
to the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.

Don't descend any faster than you feel is safe. Pressing top speed
descents is a good way to get hurt, badly. Most fast descenders I
know, including myself, took a lot of spills when young and
rebounding. I don't recommend trying to do that after age 25 or so.
Some people can do it but learning a new mother tongue like a native
is easier than riding close to the limit of traction, something that
is necessary to descend fast.

How it is done is analytical, but the rider must be sure of the limits:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.15.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Denver C. Fox) wrote:

snip

Quoted message said:

So, at 64, I am not a fast downhiller, nor do I plan to be, nor do I want to
be.

The thought of a blowout at 50-60 mph, or hitting gravel, or a squirrel
running
out in front sort of blows my mind.

So, I go at my own comfort zone speed, which sort of depends upon conditions
and how I am feeling at the moment.

Good idea!

Quoted message said:

snip

Quoted message said:

I guess at 64, caution (and perhaps slower reflexes) becomes more important.

I am 62, Denver, and I can tell you that we don¹t bounce as well as we used to
as teenagers.

Ride Safe ( only losen your grip a little )

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

Quoted message said:

I am 62, Denver, and I can tell you that we don¹t bounce as well as we used
to
as teenagers.

Ride Safe ( only losen your grip a little )

If I don't my hands gets REAL sore. Got to keep that grip loose!

Denver "Bouncing as well as someone 64 can" Fox.

http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

In article <[email hidden]>, fhall1
@twcny.rr.com says...

Quoted message said:

Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
experienced...

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek 1500,
after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a Gary Fisher
hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have been cruising around,
a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and descents.

Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a certain road I
knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to climb the hill, I made
the route so it went down the hill. Long story short, it's a pretty good
hill and even with a decent headwind according the the ol' computer I was
doing about 35 mph down the hill for a good three plus minutes. Needless to
say, the knuckles were white from hanging on for dear life and all I could

To help you keep good control at high speeds, you need to relax your
grip a bit, and put a little more weight on the pedals (don't lift
yourself completely off the saddle, though).

Quoted message said:

picture was having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow
out, and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made it to
the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really cool
and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I could
go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me? Or will I be a wuss the rest of my biking days? I know the

You'll get used to it. A lady who rides in our Tuesday night group has
the same problem, and she's been getting much more relaxed as we ride
more hills with her. We've finally gotten her to stay off the brakes on
the shorter hills. She still won't tuck and try for the maximum
possible speed, but staying off the brakes is a good first step.

Quoted message said:

pro racers are hitting what - 60 mph sometimes (or more) - so I'm not even
in that league...watching the OLN special on Lance's 5 wins last night they
pointed out he averaged about 33 mph during his time trials...which tells me
he's flying at some points...

Thanks for listening (reading)

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Fred Hall said:

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really
cool and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I
could go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I
guess. So my question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+
mph downhills not even phase me? Or will I be a wuss the rest of my
biking days?

When I was about 15, I wiped out face first at over 40 mph
down a steep hill. The worst part was being concious and
seeing all that blood and flesh, then lying paralyzed as
my heart stopped and someone started CPR.

About 15 years later, I couldn't go much over 20 mph without
my face tingling at the onset of panic. I stopped riding
for about 10 years after a leg and back injury.

I started riding again last year. Most of the fear has since gone
and I regularly pass 40 mph downhill. Last week I reached 54 mph.

Great link...thanks

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fred Hall said:

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek
1500, after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a
Gary Fisher hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have
been cruising around, a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and
descents.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a
certain road I knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to
climb the hill, I made the route so it went down the hill. Long
story short, it's a pretty good hill and even with a decent headwind
according the the ol' computer I was doing about 35 mph down the
hill for a good three plus minutes. Needless to say, the knuckles
were white from hanging on for dear life and all I could picture was
having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow out,
and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made it
to the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.

Don't descend any faster than you feel is safe. Pressing top speed
descents is a good way to get hurt, badly. Most fast descenders I
know, including myself, took a lot of spills when young and
rebounding. I don't recommend trying to do that after age 25 or so.
Some people can do it but learning a new mother tongue like a native
is easier than riding close to the limit of traction, something that
is necessary to descend fast.

How it is done is analytical, but the rider must be sure of the limits:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.15.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences...luckily this
road is well paved and dead straight, so I don't have to worry about high
speed cornering. The only thing bad about it is it has the long, fast (for
me)descent, then kind of flattens out for a couple hundred yards (where I
can collect myself) and then goes into another descent, not quite as steep
or long as the first, but the problem is it ends at a "T" intersection with
a stop sign, so I pretty much have to ride the brakes all the way down to
ensure I can actually stop at the bottom and to try to keep them from
overheating by having to apply too much pressure for too long if I wait
until I get closer to the stop sign.

It has rained here the last 2 nights, so I haven't had the chance to tackle
it again and see if it seems less intimidating the second time around, but
hopefully as a lot of you suggest, I'll get used to it.

"Fred Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please be gentle and no laughing...looking for inputs from those more
experienced...

Background: Just started seriously road riding this year on a Trek 1500,
after mostly trail (packed stone dust fairly flat) riding on a Gary Fisher
hybrid. Got the road bike about 3 weeks ago and have been cruising

around,

Quoted message said:

a lot of flat roads, but some minor climbs and descents.

Anyway, yesterday I figured I'd change up my route and take a certain road

I

Quoted message said:

knew had a pretty good hill on it. Not wanting to climb the hill, I made
the route so it went down the hill. Long story short, it's a pretty good
hill and even with a decent headwind according the the ol' computer I was
doing about 35 mph down the hill for a good three plus minutes. Needless

to

Quoted message said:

say, the knuckles were white from hanging on for dear life and all I could
picture was having a dog (or something) jump out at me, or getting a blow
out, and me going ass over teakettle down the hill. Of course, I made it

to

Quoted message said:

the bottom with no incidents and went about the rest of my ride.

Back when I was 11 or 12 I probably would have thought that was really

cool

Quoted message said:

and would have been pedaling all the way to see how much faster I could
go...now that I'm 47 I worry more about self preservation I guess. So my
question is, with more descents under my belt will 30+ mph downhills not
even phase me? Or will I be a wuss the rest of my biking days? I know

the

Quoted message said:

pro racers are hitting what - 60 mph sometimes (or more) - so I'm not even
in that league...watching the OLN special on Lance's 5 wins last night

they

Quoted message said:

pointed out he averaged about 33 mph during his time trials...which tells

me

Quoted message said:

he's flying at some points...

Thanks for listening (reading)