dopey Danielson fan

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Umm, the answer is pretty clear: going for the overall win.

Confusion over a team's goals: to win, or to have a particular rider win.

The writer should just be glad Bruyneel didn't hold Danielson back on Brasstown Bald to support Brajkovic, which would have been far more conventional than frolic off the front with Levi.

Dan

Dan Connelly said:

The writer should just be glad Bruyneel didn't hold Danielson back on Brasstown Bald to support Brajkovic, which would have been far more conventional than frolic off the front with Levi.

Fact of the matter is that both Levi and Tom were supposed to wait for
the go-ahead to be sure Brajkovic was in good shape before taking off.
Levi didn't wait.

DR

On Apr 27, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is a letter in Cyclingnews.com that says:http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2007/04-27letters

"Tom Danielson should leave Discovery. He was supposed to be the
outright leader for the Tour of Georgia, but like he did during the
Tour of Spain, Bruyneel has once again ditched Danielson mid-way into
the race....

IIRC, Danielson was "ditched" in the Vuelta because he had
underperformed and lagged behind Brajkovic, who wore the gold jersey
for a few days. Even so, TD was allowed to go for a subsequent stage
win.

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

"Dwayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 27, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is a letter in Cyclingnews.com that
says:http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2007/04-27letters

"Tom Danielson should leave Discovery. He was supposed to be the
outright leader for the Tour of Georgia, but like he did during the
Tour of Spain, Bruyneel has once again ditched Danielson mid-way into
the race....

IIRC, Danielson was "ditched" in the Vuelta because he had
underperformed and lagged behind Brajkovic, who wore the gold jersey
for a few days. Even so, TD was allowed to go for a subsequent stage
win.

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

I just thought, what if Basso gets barred from the Giro? Could
Danielson get another (last?) shot at team leader?

Dwayne said:

I just thought, what if Basso gets barred from the Giro? Could
Danielson get another (last?) shot at team leader?

While it seems plausible on its face, it would not fit with his
current training plan and he's definitely not riding the Giro.

DR

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

"Dwayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 27, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is a letter in Cyclingnews.com that
says:http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2007/04-27letters

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Tom Danielson should leave Discovery. He was supposed to be the
outright leader for the Tour of Georgia, but like he did during the
Tour of Spain, Bruyneel has once again ditched Danielson mid-way into
the race....

Quoted message said:

IIRC, Danielson was "ditched" in the Vuelta because he had
underperformed and lagged behind Brajkovic, who wore the gold jersey
for a few days. Even so, TD was allowed to go for a subsequent stage
win.

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

dumbass,

he crashed out of the TdF instead of improving on his 3rd place in
1998.

On 4/28/07 4:09 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

"Dwayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 27, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> There is a letter in Cyclingnews.com that
> says:http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2007/04-27letters

Quoted message said:

> "Tom Danielson should leave Discovery. He was supposed to be the
> outright leader for the Tour of Georgia, but like he did during the
> Tour of Spain, Bruyneel has once again ditched Danielson mid-way into
> the race....

Quoted message said:

IIRC, Danielson was "ditched" in the Vuelta because he had
underperformed and lagged behind Brajkovic, who wore the gold jersey
for a few days. Even so, TD was allowed to go for a subsequent stage
win.

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

dumbass,

he crashed out of the TdF instead of improving on his 3rd place in
1998.

Dumberass --

That was Julich, not Danielson. TD has never ridden the Tour.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

On Apr 29, 7:59 am, "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 4/28/07 4:09 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
> practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
> Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dwayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Apr 27, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>> There is a letter in Cyclingnews.com that
>> says:http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2007/04-27letters

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Tom Danielson should leave Discovery. He was supposed to be the
>> outright leader for the Tour of Georgia, but like he did during the
>> Tour of Spain, Bruyneel has once again ditched Danielson mid-way into
>> the race....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> IIRC, Danielson was "ditched" in the Vuelta because he had
> underperformed and lagged behind Brajkovic, who wore the gold jersey
> for a few days. Even so, TD was allowed to go for a subsequent stage
> win.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
> practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
> Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Quoted message said:

dumbass,

Quoted message said:

he crashed out of the TdF instead of improving on his 3rd place in
1998.

Dumberass --

That was Julich, not Danielson. TD has never ridden the Tour.

dumbass,

yes. i was responding to :

Quoted message said:

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

On 4/29/07 7:13 AM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

On Apr 29, 7:59 am, "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 4/28/07 4:09 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

On Apr 27, 9:01 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
>> practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
>> Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Quoted message said:

> Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
> potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

Quoted message said:

> --Mike--
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

Quoted message said:

> "Dwayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

> news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>> On Apr 27, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
>> wrote:
>>> There is a letter in Cyclingnews.com that
>>> says:http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2007/04-27letters

Quoted message said:

>>> "Tom Danielson should leave Discovery. He was supposed to be the
>>> outright leader for the Tour of Georgia, but like he did during the
>>> Tour of Spain, Bruyneel has once again ditched Danielson mid-way into
>>> the race....

Quoted message said:

>> IIRC, Danielson was "ditched" in the Vuelta because he had
>> underperformed and lagged behind Brajkovic, who wore the gold jersey
>> for a few days. Even so, TD was allowed to go for a subsequent stage
>> win.

Quoted message said:

>> Seems to me that TD's future as a GT leader with Discovery is
>> practically nil, given the signing of Contador and development of
>> Brajkovic. If he leaves DSC, the decision will probably be mutual...

Quoted message said:

dumbass,

Quoted message said:

he crashed out of the TdF instead of improving on his 3rd place in
1998.

Dumberass --

That was Julich, not Danielson. TD has never ridden the Tour.

dumbass,

yes. i was responding to :

Quoted message said:

Could be that he just needs a different type of DS to reach his full
potential. Look at what happened with Bobby Julich when he went to CSC.

Julich crashed out of the TDF when riding for Cofidis.

Then he went to Credit Agricole (where he became friends with Jens Voigt),
and floundered.

Then he went to T-Mobile (and floundered).

Then he went to CSC.

Julich will be 36 this year ... It's no surprise that he hasn't been able to
improve on a third place finish that happened 9 years ago ... He's OLD!

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

DirtRoadie je napisal:

Quoted message said:

Dwayne said:

I just thought, what if Basso gets barred from the Giro? Could
Danielson get another (last?) shot at team leader?

While it seems plausible on its face, it would not fit with his
current training plan and he's definitely not riding the Giro.

DR

Hey btw which team is going to race Giro for DSC, cos the race starts
in 2 weeks !?

--
http://www.cyclingboard.com

Luka said:

Hey btw which team is going to race Giro for DSC, cos the race starts
in 2 weeks !?

That I don't know. I wonder if the team does.
DR

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julich will be 36 this year ... It's no surprise that he hasn't been able
to
improve on a third place finish that happened 9 years ago ... He's OLD!

If that's old what are you? The problem between a 30 year old and a 36 year
old isn't physical ability - it's mental. They get tired of riding all the
time and start not to care. If Bobby can hold his concentration on the sport
he could still be a contender. Whether or not he EVER had the physical
ability to be a tour winner is another story altogether.

On 4/29/07 8:06 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julich will be 36 this year ... It's no surprise that he hasn't been able
to
improve on a third place finish that happened 9 years ago ... He's OLD!

If that's old what are you?

Even older, at 41.

Quoted message said:

The problem between a 30 year old and a 36 year
old isn't physical ability - it's mental.

So you're a physiologist and psychologist now?

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Julich will be 36 this year ... It's no surprise that he hasn't been able
to
improve on a third place finish that happened 9 years ago ... He's OLD!

If that's old what are you? The problem between a 30 year old and a 36
year old isn't physical ability - it's mental. They get tired of riding
all the time and start not to care. If Bobby can hold his concentration on
the sport he could still be a contender. Whether or not he EVER had the
physical ability to be a tour winner is another story altogether.

If only that were true. Results tell the story... at some point in the
mid-30s, you might have the drive, you definitely have the intelligence to
win races... a maturity that would have been of phenomenal benefit earlier
on. And yet, in the Grand Tours, that just doesn't happen.

Psychologically, the opposite should be the case. Experience counts for an
awful lot in bike racing. Patience, reading the race, knowing what it takes
to reach your goals. And clearly, in many of the classics, those remain more
important (to a point) than the gradual decline in athletic ability that
comes with getting older. You see that side of the story in stage racing.

Or maybe it's just that the older guys don't dope as much?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julich will be 36 this year ... It's no surprise that he hasn't been able
to
improve on a third place finish that happened 9 years ago ... He's OLD!

If that's old what are you? The problem between a 30 year old and a 36 year
old isn't physical ability - it's mental. They get tired of riding all the
time and start not to care. If Bobby can hold his concentration on the sport
he could still be a contender. Whether or not he EVER had the physical
ability to be a tour winner is another story altogether.

Nobody's won a Tour at 36 in the modern era, the closest
being Bartali, 1948, 35 years old. The oldest Tour winner
_ever_ is claimed to be Firmin Lambot, 1922, 36 years old.
LANCE in 2005 at 33.9 years was one of the oldest winners in
the postwar era; so-called old man Joop Zoetemelk, at the time
of his win in 1980, was just 33.7 years old. A convenient
table of postwar data 1947-2002 may be found at
http://www.amstat.org/publications/jse/datasets/tdf.dat
http://www.amstat.org/publications/jse/datasets/tdf.txt

Here is a Chung Chart [tm]. I added the ages of winners
2003-2006; since LANCE is such an old coot, his 2003-5
wins are 3/8 of the 31-and-older brigade.
http://www.ucolick.org/~bjw/misc/rbr/tdf_winners.age.png

Clearly, there is a huge dropoff after age 30 or so. You can
argue about psychology, and whether modern training
methods and orange juice regimens are prolonging riders'
careers. But the riders themselves say it just gets hard
to recover as they get older, and the statistics bear
something like this out.

Ben
RBR Data Mining Technician

In article <[email hidden]>,

Steven L. Sheffield said:

On 4/29/07 8:06 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"
<cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The problem between a 30 year old and a 36 year
old isn't physical ability - it's mental.

So you're a physiologist and psychologist now?

Surely that's somewhere on his Amazing Elastic Resume ((TM)).

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On Apr 29, 10:04 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Clearly, there is a huge dropoff after age 30 or so. You can
argue about psychology, and whether modern training
methods and orange juice regimens are prolonging riders'
careers.

Dumbass -

Before someone goes Laff@me on us let me say that orange juice
regimens don't prevent the dropoff in recovery ability caused by
Father Time. The young guys are on the Orange Juice regimens too and
all else being equal . . .

The races where being old helps seems to be the one day cobbled
classics where craftiness is just as important as wattage.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

The races where being old helps seems to be the one day cobbled
classics where craftiness is just as important as wattage.

Craftiness is that magical time between when you learn how to let air
out of the other guy's tires moving at 25 and when you start losing
your finger tips.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...