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Don't make Lance Mad

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Road Cycling
Published
5 August 2004
Last activity
9 August 2004
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Raptor
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  1. After wading through nearly two hours of Lance Commercial re-runs, they
    finally get to the new stuff.

    "Yesterday was for all the German fans who spit on us all the way up
    Alpe du'Huez. They were spittin', yellin', cussin', screaming. Kloden
    attacked... Then I remembered a couple lugies in the face and I said,
    'No, he can't win. He's not supposed to win.'"

    (And then my tape runs out five minutes later. That sucks.)

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
    "We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
    a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
    them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
    could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
    instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

  2. "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    After wading through nearly two hours of Lance Commercial re-runs, they
    finally get to the new stuff.

    "Yesterday was for all the German fans who spit on us all the way up
    Alpe du'Huez. They were spittin', yellin', cussin', screaming. Kloden
    attacked... Then I remembered a couple lugies in the face and I said,
    'No, he can't win. He's not supposed to win.'"

    That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a few
    moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that spit at
    me. Also, maybe Lance needs to spend a little more time with the real
    cycling legends to see what they had to endure. AFAIK, Lance has never had a
    finger touch him nor has he ever been impeded (unless you count the 10 year
    old that was holding the bag he ran in to last year). Look at what has
    happened to guys like Belli, Guerini, (not to mention Eddy) etc. I guess a
    lot of Lance-o-files never notice how many damn negative stories he has to
    tell about the Tour and his competitors, fans and so on. If you want to hear
    about a hero, he will talk about himself forever and a day (or at least
    enough for a few books). He sure does not like people much.

    Quoted message said:

    (And then my tape runs out five minutes later. That sucks.)

  3. "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a few
    moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that


    spit at

    Quoted message said:

    me.


    But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

  4. "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a few
    moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that


    spit at

    Quoted message said:

    me.


    But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

    Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.

    I would hope he can come up with better motivation than that. Knowing what I
    do about Lance, that probably explains why he won 5 stages this year.

  5. Raptor said:

    After wading through nearly two hours of Lance Commercial re-runs, they
    finally get to the new stuff.

    "Yesterday was for all the German fans who spit on us all the way up
    Alpe du'Huez. They were spittin', yellin', cussin', screaming. Kloden
    attacked... Then I remembered a couple lugies in the face and I said,
    'No, he can't win. He's not supposed to win.'"

    (And then my tape runs out five minutes later. That sucks.)

    Interesting.
    http://groups.google.co.nz/groups?selm=B4RLc.9913%24NA1.933510%40news02.tsnz.net&output=gplain

  6. "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a few
    moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that


    spit at

    Quoted message said:

    me.


    But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

    Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.


    I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

    1) Quit
    2) Use it as motivation

    Obviously Lance used #2.

  7. "gooserider" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    > That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a


    few

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that
    spit at
    > me.
    But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

    Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.


    I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

    1) Quit
    2) Use it as motivation

    Obviously Lance used #2.

    There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove oneself
    is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
    miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

  8. Quoted message said:

    That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a few
    moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that spit at
    me. Also, maybe Lance needs to spend a little more time with the real
    cycling legends to see what they had to endure.

    It was either Eddie M. or Bernard H., who made the comment "NO GIFTS" and
    applauded lance after beating Kloden in the sprint. They were quite
    happy that he choose to sprint instead of just letting Kloden win.
    If LA has any fault, it's that he has shown mercy on the peloton and
    given too many stage victories away. ie. Ivan Basso

    AFAIK, Lance has never had a

    Quoted message said:

    finger touch him nor has he ever been impeded (unless you count the 10 year
    old that was holding the bag he ran in to last year). Look at what has
    happened to guys like Belli, Guerini, (not to mention Eddy) etc. I guess a
    lot of Lance-o-files never notice how many damn negative stories he has to
    tell about the Tour and his competitors, fans and so on. If you want to hear
    about a hero, he will talk about himself forever and a day (or at least
    enough for a few books). He sure does not like people much.

    Maybe you need to visit Childrens Hospital in Dallas and talk to some
    cancer patients?

  9. Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "gooserider" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >
    >>That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a

    few

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that
    >
    >spit at
    >
    >>me.
    >
    >But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

    Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.

    I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

    1) Quit
    2) Use it as motivation

    Obviously Lance used #2.

    There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove oneself
    is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
    miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
    2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
    a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001

  10. "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> schreef in
    bericht news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "gooserider" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >>"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >>
    >>>That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a

    few

    Quoted message said:

    >>>moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that
    >>
    >>spit at
    >>
    >>>me.
    >>
    >>But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.
    >
    >Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.
    >

    I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

    1) Quit
    2) Use it as motivation

    Obviously Lance used #2.

    There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove


    oneself

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
    miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.

    Oh?

    Quoted message said:

    2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
    a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

    Steve

    Because he can say such incredibly [censored] things, but there is still debate
    about whether he is a Nice Person or not. But he is full of pride, and
    people like that act like bags of [censored] every now and then. It just happens
    and I don't see why it causes such anger. He's just not (always) a nice man.
    Perhaps he made a bad move by pretending to be a heroic role model rather
    than a human being, but many people like such a thing and more power to him
    if that's his way to earn a living.

    And after being called anti-semitic just because I'm from Europe, this swipe
    seemed rather mild.

    Jonathan.

  11. Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove oneself
    is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
    miserable.


    I almost posted a longer reply.

    This is a bunch of [censored]. WTF, it's a bike race. Winning is all that
    matters.

  12. Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> schreef in
    bericht news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "gooserider" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email hidden]...

    >"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >
    >>"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>>news:[email hidden]...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a

    few

    >>>>moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that
    >>>
    >>>spit at
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>me.
    >>>
    >>>But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.
    >>
    >>Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.
    >>
    >
    >I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--
    >
    >1) Quit
    >2) Use it as motivation
    >
    >Obviously Lance used #2.

    There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove

    oneself

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
    miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.

    Oh?

    Quoted message said:

    2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
    a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

    Steve

    Because he can say such incredibly [censored] things, but there is still debate
    about whether he is a Nice Person or not. But he is full of pride, and
    people like that act like bags of [censored] every now and then. It just happens
    and I don't see why it causes such anger. He's just not (always) a nice man.
    Perhaps he made a bad move by pretending to be a heroic role model rather
    than a human being, but many people like such a thing and more power to him
    if that's his way to earn a living.

    And after being called anti-semitic just because I'm from Europe, this swipe
    seemed rather mild.

    Jonathan.

    Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
    while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
    somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
    speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
    the Nazis.
    As far as Lance is concerned, I think he is a genuine hero, and
    devoutly hope he does not turn out to have been a doper.
    I am not aware that any of the legendary Tour de France champions would
    win any popularity contests. My memory is that the French themselves
    were ambivalent regarding Anquetil and Hinault, and no one thought
    Indurain was Mr. Saturday Night.
    Lance does owe good behavior to his fans and his sponsors, and to his
    colleagues to play fair. I do not believe he has any responsibility to
    (as Hinault says) give any gifts.
    As far as the United States attitude toward guns,,,well, you may have a
    point.

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001

  13. "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> schreef in
    bericht news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
    while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
    somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
    speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
    the Nazis.

    Thanks! It's not an entirely justified reputation though.

    Quoted message said:

    As far as Lance is concerned, I think he is a genuine hero, and
    devoutly hope he does not turn out to have been a doper.

    I don't think he is a hero, and I don't think he's clean. But Benjo Maso's
    post has reluctantly convinced me, so we both hope he doesn't get caught.
    Which is the same in a practical sense.

    Quoted message said:

    I am not aware that any of the legendary Tour de France champions would
    win any popularity contests.

    Fausto Coppi...
    And Bartali too, I think. Between them? I don't know, but they were loved.

    Quoted message said:

    My memory is that the French themselves
    were ambivalent regarding Anquetil and Hinault, and no one thought
    Indurain was Mr. Saturday Night.

    I thought Indurain was mainly boring, but I cared less for the tour in those
    days. Most people in the Netherlands look the same towards Armstrong. Many
    like him a lot.

    Quoted message said:

    Lance does owe good behavior to his fans and his sponsors, and to his
    colleagues to play fair. I do not believe he has any responsibility to
    (as Hinault says) give any gifts.
    As far as the United States attitude toward guns,,,well, you may have a
    point.

    You were reading too much into it - I was just trying to say something that
    was completely over the top. I did not realize that in the US, people
    actually own machineguns.

    Jonathan.

  14. Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS said:

    while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
    somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
    speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
    the Nazis.

    Er, I think behind Germany itself, Holland the highest percentage of the
    Jewish population deported, mainly because of efficient bureaucrats. Our
    famous tolerance may have it roots in indifference.

  15. "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le
    message de :
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
    2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
    a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

    Steve

    Golly, Steve, such a literalist! "Fan" comes from "fanatic" which, in this
    case, seems appropriate. There are supporters, enthusiasts, etc., but
    fanatics just don't seem to have open ears or eyes.

    Cult of the individual, huh ? Should we expect the publication of Lance's
    little red book ?
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Paris FR

  16. Ewoud Dronkert said:
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS said:

    while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
    somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
    speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
    the Nazis.

    Er, I think behind Germany itself, Holland the highest percentage of the
    Jewish population deported, mainly because of efficient bureaucrats. Our
    famous tolerance may have it roots in indifference.

    Gee, the Netherlanders I've known always point at the Swedes! ;-)

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001

  17. SMMB said:

    "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le
    message de :
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
    2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
    a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

    Steve

    Golly, Steve, such a literalist! "Fan" comes from "fanatic" which, in this
    case, seems appropriate. There are supporters, enthusiasts, etc., but
    fanatics just don't seem to have open ears or eyes.

    Cult of the individual, huh ? Should we expect the publication of Lance's
    little red book ?

    I rather doubt that Lance supporters could realistically be said to be
    more fanatical than the tifosi. In any case, while I think Lance's is a
    great story, I am not convinced he is clean. I'm sure there are folks
    who will forgive him anything, but I'm not one of them.
    The 800 lb. elephant in the room than no one is acknowledgeing is that
    Lance is almost certainly a surrogate target for European citizens angry
    at U.S. political and military policy. While this is understandable
    (and probably unavoidable) this part of the Lance antipathy is unfair to
    him.

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001

  18. "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> schreef in
    bericht news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
    while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
    somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
    speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
    the Nazis.

    Thanks! It's not an entirely justified reputation though.

    Quoted message said:

    As far as Lance is concerned, I think he is a genuine hero, and
    devoutly hope he does not turn out to have been a doper.

    I don't think he is a hero, and I don't think he's clean. But Benjo Maso's
    post has reluctantly convinced me, so we both hope he doesn't get caught.
    Which is the same in a practical sense.

    Can you repost that?

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I am not aware that any of the legendary Tour de France champions would
    win any popularity contests.

    Fausto Coppi...
    And Bartali too, I think. Between them? I don't know, but they were loved.

    Quoted message said:

    My memory is that the French themselves
    were ambivalent regarding Anquetil and Hinault, and no one thought
    Indurain was Mr. Saturday Night.

    I thought Indurain was mainly boring, but I cared less for the tour in


    those

    Quoted message said:

    days. Most people in the Netherlands look the same towards Armstrong. Many
    like him a lot.

    Quoted message said:

    Lance does owe good behavior to his fans and his sponsors, and to his
    colleagues to play fair. I do not believe he has any responsibility to
    (as Hinault says) give any gifts.
    As far as the United States attitude toward guns,,,well, you may have a
    point.

    You were reading too much into it - I was just trying to say something


    that

    Quoted message said:

    was completely over the top. I did not realize that in the US, people
    actually own machineguns.

    Jonathan.

  19. "SMMB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans


    le

    Quoted message said:

    message de :
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these


    discussions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
    2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
    a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

    Steve

    Golly, Steve, such a literalist! "Fan" comes from "fanatic" which, in


    this

    Quoted message said:

    case, seems appropriate. There are supporters, enthusiasts, etc., but
    fanatics just don't seem to have open ears or eyes.

    Cult of the individual, huh ? Should we expect the publication of Lance's
    little red book ?
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Paris FR

    Steve seems to call them as he sees them, a staightshooter.

  20. "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "gooserider" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > > That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a


    few

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > spit at
    > > me.
    > But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

    Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.


    I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

    1) Quit
    2) Use it as motivation

    Obviously Lance used #2.

    There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove


    oneself

    Quoted message said:

    is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
    miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
    there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
    don't really matter.

    Jonathan.

    I get on my bike and torture myself, but knowing there is no race, no
    crowds, nothing of importance to race against, but myself...and it's hard to
    keep up at times. Something about the 'real' race, when competitors are
    there, fighting you every inch, pulling at you to bring out the depths that
    you never knew existed, that later you realize how so alive you were. Fans
    are not just fans, but the life of the party; 'lugers' and all. But I do
    think the times are a changin' and today's nastiness by the 'few' is much
    deeper than what once existed for past champions.

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