Don't Ask Lance's Team

On Jul 29, 1:59 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said, asked
only "negative" questions -- about doping........

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/07/28/bc.cyc.tourdefrance....

(from the above link):
"We've lost sight of the true purpose of sports," said JoAnn
Dahlkoetter of Stanford University. "Instead of building character,
self-discipline and determination, we've developed a win-at-all-costs
attitude."

"It's a downward spiral. Once you start taking drugs ... you have to
come up with some story, or lie about it. Then you have to remember
the lie, which takes a lot of effort," said Dahlkoetter, author of the
book Your Performing Edge.

Maybe her book should be made mandatory reading for all athletes.

Once they understand the true meaning of sports, the doping problem
will surely be history.

Say what, thirty bucks a copy? That's a whole lot cheaper than
universal mandatory testing, testing testing. And JoAnn could share in
one of the other True Meanings of Sport. I'm sure she wouldn't mind.
--D-y

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:59:06 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said, asked
only "negative" questions -- about doping........

It is only a small handful of people who enjoy wallowing in the subject. The
rest of us are glad when such people shut up. I know that's probably not easy to
see from your perspective. Really, watching Contador and Rasmussen punish each
other going up a mountain is far more entertaining than wondering whether either
of them has a T-Patch on his balls.

Ron

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:59:06 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said, asked
only "negative" questions -- about doping........

It is only a small handful of people who enjoy wallowing in the subject.
The
rest of us are glad when such people shut up. I know that's probably not
easy to
see from your perspective. Really, watching Contador and Rasmussen punish
each
other going up a mountain is far more entertaining than wondering whether
either
of them has a T-Patch on his balls.

Ron

Your ignorance is your bliss, Grasshopper.

On Jul 29, 6:40 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:59:06 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
<[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said, asked
only "negative" questions -- about doping........

Quoted message said:

It is only a small handful of people who enjoy wallowing in the subject.
The
rest of us are glad when such people shut up. I know that's probably not
easy to
see from your perspective. Really, watching Contador and Rasmussen punish
each
other going up a mountain is far more entertaining than wondering whether
either
of them has a T-Patch on his balls.

Quoted message said:

Ron

Your ignorance is your bliss, Grasshopper.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And paranoia makes the world a private hell.
Bill C

On Jul 29, 3:40 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:59:06 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
<[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said, asked
only "negative" questions -- about doping........

Quoted message said:

It is only a small handful of people who enjoy wallowing in the subject.
The
rest of us are glad when such people shut up. I know that's probably not
easy to
see from your perspective. Really, watching Contador and Rasmussen punish
each
other going up a mountain is far more entertaining than wondering whether
either
of them has a T-Patch on his balls.

Quoted message said:

Ron

Your ignorance is your bliss, Grasshopper.

Dumbass -

It's not ignorance. Few of us rbr regulars have illusions about the
"cleanliness" of any professional sport.

What any of us take from the spectacle is a choice. You can enjoy it
for what it is or you can be frustrated at reality not being the way
you want it to be.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote...

Quoted message said:

It's not ignorance. Few of us rbr regulars have illusions about the
"cleanliness" of any professional sport.

What any of us take from the spectacle is a choice. You can enjoy it
for what it is or you can be frustrated at reality not being the way
you want it to be.

But then he wouldn't be our Man of La Mancha, now would he?

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Jul 29, 6:40 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:59:06 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
<[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

>.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour,
>some
>teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the
>sport.

Quoted message said:

>Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
>would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said,
>asked
>only "negative" questions -- about doping........

Quoted message said:

It is only a small handful of people who enjoy wallowing in the
subject.
The
rest of us are glad when such people shut up. I know that's probably
not
easy to
see from your perspective. Really, watching Contador and Rasmussen
punish
each
other going up a mountain is far more entertaining than wondering
whether
either
of them has a T-Patch on his balls.

Quoted message said:

Ron

Your ignorance is your bliss, Grasshopper.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And paranoia makes the world a private hell.
Bill C

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:_r5ri.749$Kk4.163@trndny09...

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

It sure must turn you on to be so frightened of the truth.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

It's not ignorance. Few of us rbr regulars have illusions about the
"cleanliness" of any professional sport.

What any of us take from the spectacle is a choice. You can enjoy it
for what it is or you can be frustrated at reality not being the way
you want it to be.

Dumbass -

You are correct; your characterization of the attitude of rbr regulars
is not ignorance; it is worse: it is cynicism, as well as apathy, and
finally denial.

First: let me say I am not too much of a [censored] to deny that I would
have MUCH preferred, for pure entertainment value, to watch a showdown
among Discovery, Rabobank, Astana, and Lotto and a battle among
Contador, Skeletor, Kloden, Evans and Levi for the yellow and the
podium. Dope or no dope. After too many years of no true podium
competition, it's not hard to be cynical. I was really waiting for a
Discovery/Astana two prong assault on Rabobank, so screw the tests and
the politics.

And so, it follows that you are apathetic if the withdrawal of Astana
for Vino's bust, and the booting of (come on, be honest) a
suspiciously strong Skeletor, didn't either [censored] you off or bum you
out.

Finally, you are in denial if you just [censored] on the point of the Boston
Globe article Lafferty posted. Is it really impossible that the
ridicule and scorn of the popular press might result in enough sponsor
withdrawal to seriously hurt the sport if cycling? How many more
years of half assed dope policing, where only a few riders here and
there out of the entire doped peloton get busted and their careers
wrecked, while others are current or retired millionaires with clean
reputations (e.g. LANCE), can the sport take without imploding?

How above it all are you rbr regulars, really?

"Doug Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Finally, you are in denial if you just [censored] on the point of the Boston
Globe article Lafferty posted.

You mean like Dan Rather's claim that although those so-called memos about
Bush were fraudulent they were really true?

Yeah, if there's one group of people that have shown themselves to be
honest, trustworthy and reliable it's the news media - especially when we're
learning about how Linsey Lohan is getting an abortion.

Doug Taylor said:

out.

Finally, you are in denial if you just [censored] on the point of the Boston
Globe article Lafferty posted. Is it really impossible that the
ridicule and scorn of the popular press might result in enough sponsor
withdrawal to seriously hurt the sport if cycling? How many more
years of half assed dope policing, where only a few riders here and
there out of the entire doped peloton get busted and their careers
wrecked, while others are current or retired millionaires with clean
reputations (e.g. LANCE), can the sport take without imploding?

How above it all are you rbr regulars, really?

Dumbass -

Like any spectator sport, it's just entertainment.

Like any spectator sport, it mirrors the values of the culture in
which it resides.

People on various forms of medication - they are everywhere. Our
friends, families and neighbors. Caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, birth
control hormones (and yes, they are hormones), ritalin, viagra,
cialis, zoloft, marijuana, prozac, ibuprofen, phenophthalein,
immodium, cocaine, aspirin, ginsing, valium, opiates, you name it.

Drug use in western culture is a part of everyday life. I choose not
to get outraged about it. I wouldn't wnat to change it even if I was
suddenly omnipotent. Your mileage may vary.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:_r5ri.749$Kk4.163@trndny09...

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

It sure must turn you on to be so frightened of the truth.

Who's truth and what truth?

Truth defined by the Boston Globe, [censored] Pound?

If this wasn't about sponsorship money, it'd be a non issue.

The mistake here is that the revisionist history is coming from the outside
not the inside.

As soon as they realize that DP and others are not about cycling, but about
a personal agenda, they can try to get on top of the sport.

And where is David Millar coming from? No one likes a hematocrit hypocrite.

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:23:11 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Finally, you are in denial if you just [censored] on the point of the Boston
Globe article Lafferty posted.

You mean like Dan Rather's claim that although those so-called memos about
Bush were fraudulent they were really true?

Yeah, if there's one group of people that have shown themselves to be
honest, trustworthy and reliable it's the news media - especially when we're
learning about how Linsey Lohan is getting an abortion.

Can you say "non-sequitur"?

Did anyone ever tell you what a lame tool you are?

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:40:27 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:59:06 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.......Despite the massive fallout from doping at this year's Tour, some
teams still clam up when it comes to talking about drug use in the sport.

Discovery Channel spokesman P.J. Rabice said Friday that team officials
would not answer any more questions from one reporter who, he said, asked
only "negative" questions -- about doping........

It is only a small handful of people who enjoy wallowing in the subject.
The
rest of us are glad when such people shut up. I know that's probably not
easy to
see from your perspective. Really, watching Contador and Rasmussen punish
each
other going up a mountain is far more entertaining than wondering whether
either
of them has a T-Patch on his balls.

Ron

Your ignorance is your bliss, Grasshopper.

Do speculations on the ball-patch status of shaved-leg men in spandex increase
your enjoyment of the sport? Then please enjoy to your hearts content.

I just think that bike racing is more interesting than that.

Ron

email hidden said:

The case could be made that the panty-yankers are the problem.

The case could be made that we were better off with Omerta.

In the USA that is called "don't ask, don't tell." Works just great.

Gimme a break.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So some consistent and effective drug enforcement system must be
adopted, because the alternative of "anything goes" will not fly much
longer.

Quoted message said:

It's not "anything goes" and hasn't been for a long time. It's an
unsolvable problem that those in positions of power and authority have
done a mighty lame job of handling.

And YOUR solution is Omerta? I call that "anything goes." It won't
work as long as riders are dumb enough to get busted a la Vino. You're
back to inconsistent arbitrary and enforcement of universal drug use.
I call that annoying.

So, the crux of the matter still remains: how to you fix the lame job
the authorities are doing?

Your way would be don't enforce doping rules at all. Everything
worked fine before WADA got into the act, so turn the clock back and
dump WADA.

Sorry, but it's too late and the genie is out of the bottle or
Pandora's box is open, or whatever the metaphor is. Even your huge
attendance at the TdF or any bike race won't justify "just letting
them ride" anymore. WADA is in, the press is in, the vultures are
circling.

If the solution to lame enforcement is not no enforcement, you're
stuck with strict enforcement. Then you have to contend with b.s.
like "zero tolerance" - where athletes have lost Olympic medals for
using their asthma inhalers and that sort of [censored].

Gotta be some middle ground, but what?

Doug Taylor said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:56:39 -0700, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

It's not ignorance. Few of us rbr regulars have illusions about the
"cleanliness" of any professional sport.

Quoted message said:

What any of us take from the spectacle is a choice. You can enjoy it
for what it is or you can be frustrated at reality not being the way
you want it to be.

Dumbass -

You are correct; your characterization of the attitude of rbr regulars
is not ignorance; it is worse: it is cynicism, as well as apathy, and
finally denial.

First: let me say I am not too much of a [censored] to deny that I would
have MUCH preferred, for pure entertainment value, to watch a showdown
among Discovery, Rabobank, Astana, and Lotto and a battle among
Contador, Skeletor, Kloden, Evans and Levi for the yellow and the
podium. Dope or no dope. After too many years of no true podium
competition, it's not hard to be cynical. I was really waiting for a
Discovery/Astana two prong assault on Rabobank, so screw the tests and
the politics.

And so, it follows that you are apathetic if the withdrawal of Astana
for Vino's bust, and the booting of (come on, be honest) a
suspiciously strong Skeletor, didn't either [censored] you off or bum you
out.

Finally, you are in denial if you just [censored] on the point of the Boston
Globe article Lafferty posted. Is it really impossible that the
ridicule and scorn of the popular press might result in enough sponsor
withdrawal to seriously hurt the sport if cycling? How many more
years of half assed dope policing, where only a few riders here and
there out of the entire doped peloton get busted and their careers
wrecked, while others are current or retired millionaires with clean
reputations (e.g. LANCE), can the sport take without imploding?

How above it all are you rbr regulars, really?

Please show me ANY "war on drugs" that has been won? Lots of
collateral damage, lots of people's rights violated, lots of people
jailed and there are more users now than ever.
Good business model.
Bill C

Doug Taylor said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:56:39 -0700, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

It's not ignorance. Few of us rbr regulars have illusions about the
"cleanliness" of any professional sport.

Quoted message said:

What any of us take from the spectacle is a choice. You can enjoy it
for what it is or you can be frustrated at reality not being the way
you want it to be.

Dumbass -

You are correct; your characterization of the attitude of rbr regulars
is not ignorance; it is worse: it is cynicism, as well as apathy, and
finally denial.

First: let me say I am not too much of a [censored] to deny that I would
have MUCH preferred, for pure entertainment value, to watch a showdown
among Discovery, Rabobank, Astana, and Lotto and a battle among
Contador, Skeletor, Kloden, Evans and Levi for the yellow and the
podium. Dope or no dope. After too many years of no true podium
competition, it's not hard to be cynical. I was really waiting for a
Discovery/Astana two prong assault on Rabobank, so screw the tests and
the politics.

And so, it follows that you are apathetic if the withdrawal of Astana
for Vino's bust, and the booting of (come on, be honest) a
suspiciously strong Skeletor, didn't either [censored] you off or bum you
out.

Finally, you are in denial if you just [censored] on the point of the Boston
Globe article Lafferty posted. Is it really impossible that the
ridicule and scorn of the popular press might result in enough sponsor
withdrawal to seriously hurt the sport if cycling? How many more
years of half assed dope policing, where only a few riders here and
there out of the entire doped peloton get busted and their careers
wrecked, while others are current or retired millionaires with clean
reputations (e.g. LANCE), can the sport take without imploding?

How above it all are you rbr regulars, really?

Go do a search at the Boston Globe for the author Hohler and read the
puff pieces he's written recently celbrating Barry Bonds chase for the
HR record.
Yep that makes him credible in his anti-doping stance.
The Globe in general has real problems in it's sports dept. After
Jackie MacMullan who's is a fantastic journalist, not just sports
journalist, and Bob Ryan who is decent they are a cesspool.
Bill C

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:09:43 -0700, Bill C <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Please show me ANY "war on drugs" that has been won? Lots of
collateral damage, lots of people's rights violated, lots of people
jailed and there are more users now than ever.
Good business model.

As a pot smoker for approximately 40 years, I have no sympathy for
anybody's "War on Drugs."

I wonder what that has to do with performance enhancement cheating in
sports? Sorry, but I don't think that cheating is "victimless" -
even if everybody does it. But my opinion is beside the point.

The point is that WADA has inserted itself into professional cycling
and they are not going away. It wasn't my idea - but it's a fact.

So you can whine complain [censored] moan and flame away, but you're stuck
with them, and a current system of enforcement in cycling that is
inconsistent, arbitrary, capricious, and unfair.

The sport will never go back to the good old days when nobody cared.

So what has to be figured out if there is anyway of effectively and
fairly enforcing the rules.

Good luck.

Doug Taylor said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:56:49 -0700, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

Drug use in western culture is a part of everyday life. I choose not
to get outraged about it. I wouldn't wnat to change it even if I was
suddenly omnipotent. Your mileage may vary.

It's also a part of virtually all athletic competition and that is so
obvious that "outrage" would be a naive and hypocritical response.
Annoyance is more apt.

You weren't annoyed when three or four crucial riders (including the
yellow jersey), and one important team, left in the middle of the
race? If you say no, I seriously doubt you.

<snip>

Dumbass -

No, I wasn't annoyed.

Since I don't have illusions about drug use in professional athletics
or society at large why would I? I accept the reality.

Does it ever occur to you that not everyone has the same worldview as
yourself?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.