Doing VO2max raising intervals too hard??

My understanding is that overall duration of workout is no substitute for intensity. Try doing fewer work intervals, but ensure you are maxing on all of them. If you cant do them all at full intensity, you are only succeeding in using up energy stores and not getting any adaptation.

Also try fuller recovery. You are more likley to do a good work interval, and thats what counts for VO2max adaptations. Average lactate levels are not relevent here.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by TTer
I have been doing short intervals recently aimed at improving my VO2max.

I have been hitting the intervals as hard as I can, at a constant power level (ie. not starting out flat out and fading, but maintaining an effort e.g. 350W) for the duration of each interval. By the end of the interval it's really hurting and I can just complete the interval (FWIW HR reaches about 96-97% max). After a similar rest period, e.g. 3 mins, I go again and complete another interval at the same power. I have been doing 8-12 of these intervals and the last 5-7 of them are pure hell. Recently I haven't been able to complete the workout or hold the same power and have moved on to 2x20mins for the last 2.5weeks.

Is it possible to perform intervals too hard? Should I ease back on the intensity, e.g. to 335W, so I can complete more volume? Will more volume have a greater effect on VO2max than doing fewer at high intensity?

Should my intensity be closer to 90% MHR by the end of 3mins? Is it possible to do them too hard such that I'm training anaerobic capacity rather than VO2max, or doesn't it matter?

So the workout has been 8-12 x 3:00 on/3:00 off, at a power that brings your HR to 96-97% of maximum? That's a pretty typical 'level 5' (by my system) VO2max workout, and I'm not surprised that you find the last 5-7 efforts 'hell' and that it is hard to complete the session. IOW, by all measures I think you're doing things right - the only suggestion I would make is that, for largely psychological (confidence) reasons, you should either accept that you won't always be able to finish this workout, and/or bring the intensity down *slightly* so that you can (most of the time, anyway). Alternatively, you could lengthen the amount of recovery between efforts, since what matters in this context is the work interval, not the work:rest ratio (i.e., you're not manipulating the latter to achieve particular metabolic effects, you're simply taking a break between efforts because that's the only way to keep the intensity that high). But the bottom line is that as long as you can get in 20-30 min total in 3-8 min 'chunks' at that intensity, you'll be stressing VO2max, and needn't worry that you're doing them too hard (such training will *never* be easy).

i have been recently doing VO2max intervals myself, and the workouts following these(after a recovery day) i have felt drained and slow. i was doing 5 x 7minutes at 350watts (40w above LT).
it is quite a hard workout.
i am not doing this workout anymore because i think it is hurting my training, too much time above LT, i am also racing.

Quite right - 48hrs+ recovery needed, and never try doing it more than twice a week. I go by heart rate, and get to 184 at the end of a vo2max work interval. Whatever exact system this stresses is not recovered fully before 3 days as trying again wihin 2 days I find its a huge effort and pain to push past 170. And theres no point in doing them unless you are able to get to your vo2max rate or very near.

.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by velomanct
i have been recently doing VO2max intervals myself, and the workouts following these(after a recovery day) i have felt drained and slow. i was doing 5 x 7minutes at 350watts (40w above LT).
it is quite a hard workout.
i am not doing this workout anymore because i think it is hurting my training, too much time above LT, i am also racing.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by TTer
I have been doing short intervals recently aimed at improving my VO2max.

I have been hitting the intervals as hard as I can, at a constant power level (ie. not starting out flat out and fading, but maintaining an effort e.g. 350W) for the duration of each interval. By the end of the interval it's really hurting and I can just complete the interval (FWIW HR reaches about 96-97% max). After a similar rest period, e.g. 3 mins, I go again and complete another interval at the same power. I have been doing 8-12 of these intervals and the last 5-7 of them are pure hell. Recently I haven't been able to complete the workout or hold the same power and have moved on to 2x20mins for the last 2.5weeks.

Is it possible to perform intervals too hard? Should I ease back on the intensity, e.g. to 335W, so I can complete more volume? Will more volume have a greater effect on VO2max than doing fewer at high intensity?

Should my intensity be closer to 90% MHR by the end of 3mins? Is it possible to do them too hard such that I'm training anaerobic capacity rather than VO2max, or doesn't it matter?

These seem fine (if no fun whatsoever!). I prefer to make mine 4-mins long, as i seem to get into the groove of doing them and also it means less intervals for the same volume, which for me, psychologically feels better.

i approach the intervals slightly differently intensity wise as well, although they're both in the right zone for me (zone 6 by my system).

to mix things up i often do one set of the intervals on the indoor trainer at a slightly lower power at the low end of my zone 6, with much shorter recovery periods in (60 to 90-secs).

i do another set of intervals uphill during an outdoor ride -- the rest of the ride needs to be easy (at least for me). these tend to be closer to 3-mins in duration and towards the middle of zone 6 (somewhere between say 90 - 100 % MAP). the recovery period could be quite large as i ride from hill to hill.

As Andy says though, these type of intervals will never be easy

Ric