dog strategies

I had a dog do something like that once, and it was just a big, clumsy puppy
about 4 months old.

Pat in TX

pam_in_sc wrote:
|| I took a shortcut through a neighborhood I didn't know this morning
|| and a dog came out and chased me. Now and then I've been scared a
|| dog actually wanted to bite me, but I didn't have that sense with
|| this one. I was going down a hill and I figured if I just kept
|| going I would leave the dog behind. Unfortunately the dog tried to
|| cut in front of my bike and I hit it and went flying. I'm bruised
|| and scraped, nothing more serious, thankfully. The dog ran and hid,
|| but when it came out again I regret to say it wasn't even limping (I
|| did eventually ride home, but it took me a while to figure out that
|| I and my bike were ok).
||
|| Did I just run into an exceptionally stupid and inexperienced dog
|| (this was a hound in a mill town in South Carolina) or is my
|| strategy of just ignoring the dog and keeping going the wrong one?
|| When I took my bike to my local bike shop for some readjustments one
|| person there said he yells at dogs "Get off the couch."

Dogs often try to run in front of you. My experience so far is to not try to
out run the dog unless you are willing to haul ass. If you do the latter,
then click up and go, go, go and don't let the dog get in front of you. If
you do the former, don't gave the dog anything to chase - just go very
slowly so it won't find any sport with you. I've tried this several times
this summer and it seems to work consistently - so far. I'm not claiming
100% that this always works. But don't ever let a dog get in front of you -
if it does, slow down. Also, talk to the dog, that might slow them down a
bit.

||
|| Pam

pam_in_sc said:

I took a shortcut through a neighborhood I didn't know this morning and
a dog came out and chased me. Now and then I've been scared a dog
actually wanted to bite me, but I didn't have that sense with this one.
I was going down a hill and I figured if I just kept going I would
leave the dog behind. Unfortunately the dog tried to cut in front of my
bike and I hit it and went flying. I'm bruised and scraped, nothing
more serious, thankfully. The dog ran and hid, but when it came out
again I regret to say it wasn't even limping (I did eventually ride
home, but it took me a while to figure out that I and my bike were ok).

Did I just run into an exceptionally stupid and inexperienced dog (this
was a hound in a mill town in South Carolina) or is my strategy of just
ignoring the dog and keeping going the wrong one? When I took my bike
to my local bike shop for some readjustments one person there said he
yells at dogs "Get off the couch."

Pam

I had two dogs attack me in classic dog hunting style. One ran in front
(to grab the 'game' by the nose) and the other attacked from the rear
(to open up the underbelly of the 'animal' so it'd die eventually).
Fortunately for me, but not for front dog, I was on my motorcycle, not
my bicycle so I just merrily ran over the front dog and left back dog
behind minus one hunting chum.

Personally, I think any damage you can do these things justified, but
the reality if when we're on our bicycles we're vulnerable to these
attacks - either the kind that wrecked you or the bite on the leg.

I've spoken to dog fanceiers about this and get the usual homilies that
responsible dog owners keep their animals away, but there seems to be a
hell of lot of irresponsible ones around. We only need one to end up
badly damaged or even hosptialized.

The dog gurus said that dogs don't recognize us on bicycles as humans so
they will often attack. They said the best solution is to stop, get off
bike to show you are a human (master?) and to then scold the dog. If you
then return to your bike, the dog will 'get it' that it's a human and
not pursue.

Yeah, it means interrpting a nice ride, but that's the advice given. I
tried it once and it worked. That is, I got off the bike and the dog
stopped its attack.

BTW, in old days, like the 19th century, there were specific pistols
made for bikers for shooting nasty dogs. They were called something like
velo-pistols. Shooting them still makes sense for being in far rural
areas, but obviously if you shoot a dog in settled areas you are being
even more irresponsible than the dog owners because of the possiblity of
the slug going where you don't wish it to go. So, IMO, despite the
temptation, I think firearms are out.

As far as hitting with a pump or spraying with Mace, I doubt either
would work with a large dog. Also it'd be easier to stop, and get off IMO.

The only slight comfort is if you do take a spill or get bitten and can
ID the filthy aniaml which did it, the owner is liable for your damages
in all places I know. So I suppose you can win in court if it comes to
serious injury or property damage.

-paul

pam_in_sc said:

I took a shortcut through a neighborhood I didn't know this morning and
a dog came out and chased me. Now and then I've been scared a dog
actually wanted to bite me, but I didn't have that sense with this one.
I was going down a hill and I figured if I just kept going I would
leave the dog behind. Unfortunately the dog tried to cut in front of my
bike and I hit it and went flying. I'm bruised and scraped, nothing
more serious, thankfully. The dog ran and hid, but when it came out
again I regret to say it wasn't even limping (I did eventually ride
home, but it took me a while to figure out that I and my bike were ok).

Did I just run into an exceptionally stupid and inexperienced dog (this
was a hound in a mill town in South Carolina) or is my strategy of just
ignoring the dog and keeping going the wrong one? When I took my bike
to my local bike shop for some readjustments one person there said he
yells at dogs "Get off the couch."

Pam

I had two dogs attack me in classic dog hunting style. One ran in front
(to grab the 'game' by the nose) and the other attacked from the rear
(to open up the underbelly of the 'animal' so it'd die eventually).
Fortunately for me, but not for front dog, I was on my motorcycle, not
my bicycle so I just merrily ran over the front dog and left back dog
behind minus one hunting chum.

Personally, I think any damage you can do these things justified, but
the reality if when we're on our bicycles we're vulnerable to these
attacks - either the kind that wrecked you or the bite on the leg.

I've spoken to dog fanceiers about this and get the usual homilies that
responsible dog owners keep their animals away, but there seems to be a
hell of lot of irresponsible ones around. We only need one to end up
badly damaged or even hosptialized.

The dog gurus said that dogs don't recognize us on bicycles as humans so
they will often attack. They said the best solution is to stop, get off
bike to show you are a human (master?) and to then scold the dog. If you
then return to your bike, the dog will 'get it' that it's a human and
not pursue.

Yeah, it means interrpting a nice ride, but that's the advice given. I
tried it once and it worked. That is, I got off the bike and the dog
stopped its attack.

BTW, in old days, like the 19th century, there were specific pistols
made for bikers for shooting nasty dogs. They were called something like
velo-pistols. Shooting them still makes sense for being in far rural
areas, but obviously if you shoot a dog in settled areas you are being
even more irresponsible than the dog owners because of the possiblity of
the slug going where you don't wish it to go. So, IMO, despite the
temptation, I think firearms are out.

As far as hitting with a pump or spraying with Mace, I doubt either
would work with a large dog. Also it'd be easier to stop, and get off IMO.

The only slight comfort is if you do take a spill or get bitten and can
ID the filthy aniaml which did it, the owner is liable for your damages
in all places I know. So I suppose you can win in court if it comes to
serious injury or property damage.

-paul

Here are some techniques I've heard of, some of which I've tried:

* Yell "No!"
* Yell "Sit!"
* Yell "Bad Dog!"
* growl or bark like a dog
* squirt water from water bottle
* squirt ammonia from water bottle
* pepper spray or "Halt"
* slow way down and get off if necessary; keep the bike between you and
the dog
* speed up and outsprint the dog

Yelling various things works ok with some dogs. There's no way to tell
which ones beforehand. It probably doesn't work at all with feral dogs.
I almost always yell at dogs before trying one of the other techniques.
If nothing else, I'm hoping that the owners will hear me yelling at
their dogs and realize that there is a problem. I've never tried barking
or growling.

Squirting water at a dog will often make the dog flinch away. But after
the flinch, they're right back at you. This only buys you a fraction of
a second, and it requires that you take a hand off the bars to get the
water bottle out of the cage. Dogs are almost always able to dodge the
water. I never tried ammonia.

I tried pepper spray on a very persistent dog that chased me repeatedly
in an attempt to train it not to chase me any more. It sort of worked,
but the dog needed a refresher lesson every six months or so, and I
didn't always carry the pepper spray. There is a danger that if you
spray upwind, you'll get the spray yourself, and I never used this on a
group ride since I might spray a fellow rider. Getting the pepper spray
out of my jersey pocket is slow; I can't really use this with a dog that
surprises me, only with dogs that I know about ahead of time.

I slow down if I can't outrun the dog and it looks unpredictable. I get
off the bike to keep the bike between me and really big vicious-acting
dogs that I don't think I can outrun. Getting off the bike really messes
up the ride, and possibly puts you in danger of getting run over by a
passing car, but it will keep you from having a high-speed dog-involved
crash.

In cases where I'm sure I can outrun the dog, I often sprint to get past
the dog's territory quickly; they will often give up the chase once
you're past what they consider to be their territory. I once sprinted
before I had made a conscious decision due to pure fight-or-flight
reflex. I never saw the dog, I just heard it coming, and fortunately I
got past it's territory before it got to me.

I don't think there's a simple solution to dogs and bikes. Experience
will help, but it's always potentially dangerous.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dave

Sun, 15 Aug 2004 00:09:51 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

David Newman said:

I never tried ammonia.

Don't even mention ammonia and dee-oh-gee-es in the same post.

Vinegar won't do permanent damage whereas an ammonia solution might.
--
zk

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don't even mention ammonia and dee-oh-gee-es in the same post.

Vinegar won't do permanent damage whereas an ammonia solution might.
--
zk

I agree that ammonia is not a good idea. You don't really want to hurt the
dog permanently, after all. However, pepper spray seem to work well. It
should teach the dog - and its owner - a valuable lesson.

Dave

I used to drive a Mini Moke (very low, open-sided car) and the local dogs used to love run along side barking, almost jumping into the car. I filled a water pistol with water and a little squirt of dish washing liquid. They quickly learned to keep their distance and eventually gave up chasing me.

Once, when I was on a motorcycle, a large dog came out of a yard, barking at
me. I could have easily accelerated and left the dog behind, but just for
fun, I slowed down and stopped. The dog became confused, and alternately
wagged its tail and growled. It stopped barking, came up and sniffed my
leg, and just didn't know what to do. I just rode on.

I probably would not have been so calm if I had been on a bicycle, but, it
does suggest that dogs usually don't chase people who are not moving.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
|| Once, when I was on a motorcycle, a large dog came out of a yard,
|| barking at me. I could have easily accelerated and left the dog
|| behind, but just for fun, I slowed down and stopped. The dog became
|| confused, and alternately wagged its tail and growled. It stopped
|| barking, came up and sniffed my leg, and just didn't know what to
|| do. I just rode on.
||
|| I probably would not have been so calm if I had been on a bicycle,
|| but, it does suggest that dogs usually don't chase people who are
|| not moving.

That's similiar to my experience, expect I'm moving, just very slowly. If
you go at a walking pace, then typically don't chase.

Leo Lichtman said:

Once, when I was on a motorcycle, a large dog came out of a yard,
barking at
me. I could have easily accelerated and left the dog behind, but just
for
fun, I slowed down and stopped. The dog became confused, and alternately
wagged its tail and growled. It stopped barking, came up and sniffed my
leg, and just didn't know what to do. I just rode on.

I probably would not have been so calm if I had been on a bicycle, but,
it
does suggest that dogs usually don't chase people who are not moving.

I had two dogs that would chase me every time I rode past their farm,
about 8 miles from my house. Finally I was riding with two girls, and
decided
to stop and delay the dogs so the girls could get by. After a moment of
confusion they decided to venture up to me, first one and then the other.
I started petting one and then the other, then the two girls I was riding
with
came back and started in on the petting. Now I have two dogs who will run
out and expect to get petted every time I go by. At least they are a
success story. One other dog still persists in chasing but I turn around
and chase him, turning the barking into yipe, yipe, all the way back to
his driveway. He still does it every time and I chase him every time.
Dumb dog, very dumb.
Bill Baka

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In article <[email hidden]>,

pam_in_sc said:

Did I just run into an exceptionally stupid and inexperienced dog (this
was a hound in a mill town in South Carolina) or is my strategy of just
ignoring the dog and keeping going the wrong one?

I underwent the same conundrum a couple of nights ago, when being
chased (paced alongside, actually) by a skunk. If I stopped,
chances were the skunk would have come up to me, sniffed around me
and my bike, and held me up for a good long while while I'd have
to remain as motionless as possible. If I tried to outrun it, it
could dart under a wheel. I was just heading out, and we were in
a back lane with only about 30 yards to where it intersects the
street. We finally reached the tee in the lane where I could peel
off to the left; the skunk peeled off to the right, under a
neighbour's back gate. I didn't know those li'l buggers could
move so fast.

I've never seen a skunk deploy their weaponry on the fly -- they
always seem to have to stop first. I might be wrong about that,
though. So if you're ever chased or paced or raced by a skunk,
it might be best to keep it moving, and try not to let it get in
front of you.

cheers,
Tom

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Bill Baka said:

One other dog still persists in chasing but I
turn around and chase him, turning the barking into yipe, yipe, all
the way back to his driveway. He still does it every time and I chase
him every time. Dumb dog, very dumb.

Wonder if he tells his buddies he's got a human trained to chase him and
bark?

Bill "good boy!" S.

"Bill Baka" wrote: (clip) After a moment of confusion they decided to
venture up to me, first one and then the other. I started petting one and
then the other, then the two girls I was riding with (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds good to me.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Bill Baka" wrote: (clip) After a moment of confusion they decided to
venture up to me, first one and then the other. I started petting one and
then the other, then the two girls I was riding with (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds good to me.

I have GOT to watch how I word things with some of you.
Bill Baka

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Little Meow wrote:
|| pam_in_sc wrote:
||
||| I took a shortcut through a neighborhood I didn't know this morning
||| and a dog came out and chased me. Now and then I've been scared a
||| dog actually wanted to bite me, but I didn't have that sense with
||| this one. I was going down a hill and I figured if I just kept
||| going I would leave the dog behind. Unfortunately the dog tried to
||| cut in front of my bike and I hit it and went flying. I'm bruised
||| and scraped, nothing more serious, thankfully. The dog ran and
||| hid, but when it came out again I regret to say it wasn't even
||| limping (I did eventually ride home, but it took me a while to
||| figure out that I and my bike were ok).
|||
||| Did I just run into an exceptionally stupid and inexperienced dog
||| (this was a hound in a mill town in South Carolina) or is my
||| strategy of just ignoring the dog and keeping going the wrong one?
||| When I took my bike to my local bike shop for some readjustments
||| one person there said he yells at dogs "Get off the couch."
|||
||| Pam
|||
|| Each dog is different.
||
|| During one morning ride, I was savagely assaulted by a chihuahua.
|| I slowed down so that I wouldn't overexert myself and fall victim
|| to its needle sharp fangs, but this had the effect of encouraging
|| it to yap louder and chase longer (I could almost hear cartoonish
|| twinklefeet sound effects).
||
|| Soon, I was confused by stereo yapping. Terror gripped me as another
|| wee predator lept out from the next yard and slammed into the gate
|| with a gentle "poink". Dos chihuahuas! Aye caramba!
||
|| I continued my leisurely escape when the yapping trebled.
|| From across the street, a tiny snout protested my passing.
|| Tres chihuahuas! Aye dios mio!
||
|| Once I had travelled two front yards over, mi amigo chiquito was
|| satisfied that I had been chased out of his vast territory.
|| The last I saw of it, it was using its hind legs to kick grass
|| in my direction.
||
|| Well, ok, maybe these dogs were all the same, but other, different
|| dogs, are different. Or something like that.

You couldn't outrun a mere chihuahua? Oh my....

Dan Daniel said:

Assuming the dog was a shepherd of some kind, and that it was trying
to herd you, there are different styles of herding. Some is done from
the back side, and some is done from the front. Sounds like this dog
was doing some front herding- getting just in front, leading, and then
pushing/cutting if the herded animal isn;t going the right way?

I had a shepherd/malamut mix years ago who could outrun almost any
other dog. Watching it 'herd' and direct from the front rather than
the back was fascinating. She could drop back and push another dog
with her back side, stay just in front, etc., and take another dog
wherever she wanted it go.

Well, just one idea.

Interesting observation Dan. I had never thought of that, but I have a
border collie who uses its body in much the same way to try and herd
my other dogs. It will constantly run in front and stop or turn to
make the other dogs go where it wants them.

When I was in 6th grade I had a paper route. A large German shepherd
used to chase me, but fortunately my trusty 10 speed was always able
to outrun it, since it usually didn't see me until I was in front of
its house and I was usually going flat out. One day it was waiting for
me. I was pushing the big gear as hard as I could and it charged right
in front of me. I guess it was trying to herd me.

My bike hit it right at the shoulders. I went over the bars and it
went yelping back to its house, and through the screen door onto the
screened-in porch. Being only 12 or 13 I had some road rash but
nothing serious. We didn't wear helmets in those days.

The dog never chased me again. It died a week later from internal
injuries.

Raoul Duke said:

I agree that ammonia is not a good idea. You don't really want to hurt the
dog permanently, after all. However, pepper spray seem to work well. It
should teach the dog - and its owner - a valuable lesson.

Your mention of the owner got my wheels turning (no pun intended). I
wonder if there are any chemical engineers on the list.

My brainstorm involves some way of micro-encapsulating mercaptan
compounds. These could be added to the usual solutions -- pepper
spray, what have you. On contact with the dog, the microspheres would
open liberating the mercaptans onto the dogs fur.

Mercaptans are what makes skunk spray smell the way it does. My
brainstorm would have the odor be quite persistent and resistant to
the usual methods of deodorizing the dog. (Folk cures for deodorizing
skunk-sprayed dogs range, in my recollection, from tomato-juice baths
to lemon-juice baths with a baking-soda rinse to -- get this --
building a smoky fire and holding the dog in the smoke).

Dog owners don't care if their dogs chase cyclists, but if the dog
tangled with a skunk, or if the owner THOUGHT that the dog had tangled
with a skunk -- especially if it took a week or several baths to
deodorize the dog, then the owner might be more motivated to keep the
dog where it belongs.

Zippy the Pinhead said:

Your mention of the owner got my wheels turning (no pun intended). I
wonder if there are any chemical engineers on the list.

My brainstorm involves some way of micro-encapsulating mercaptan
compounds. These could be added to the usual solutions -- pepper
spray, what have you. On contact with the dog, the microspheres would
open liberating the mercaptans onto the dogs fur.

Mercaptans are what makes skunk spray smell the way it does. My
brainstorm would have the odor be quite persistent and resistant to
the usual methods of deodorizing the dog. (Folk cures for deodorizing
skunk-sprayed dogs range, in my recollection, from tomato-juice baths
to lemon-juice baths with a baking-soda rinse to -- get this --
building a smoky fire and holding the dog in the smoke).

Dog owners don't care if their dogs chase cyclists, but if the dog
tangled with a skunk, or if the owner THOUGHT that the dog had tangled
with a skunk -- especially if it took a week or several baths to
deodorize the dog, then the owner might be more motivated to keep the
dog where it belongs.

Interesting idea there. You might go by a hunting store and see if they
have deodorizing spray for deer hunters. Smells just like a skunk, so
only die-hard hunters use it! Application might be tricky. It's made
to spray on the hunter, so you'd probably have to stop the bike, grab
the dog, and spray it.

Fido goes home, gets stopped going in the door... Love the picture, if
nothing else.

Pat
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