Dof E Kit - sleeping bags?

Have a look at www.outdoorsmagic.com

There's lots of user reviews on the site and plenty of links to various
retailers.

Cheers, Jiffy

Toffee Babinski said:

My son will be starting his Bronze early next year, can anyone give any
advice on type of kit to buy - particularly sleeping bags, rucksacks, and
waterproofs - as there are some good deals in the outdoor shops right now -
guess there will be a change of stock for next years 'colours' etc.
Thanks

100% polyester sleeping bags are preferable to down sleeping bags.

Rucksacks with external frames are better than those with padded
internal frames.

Waterproofs which leak are better than those where the water beads on
the outside.

In general buy the heaviest and bulkiest kit available. It will help
him build character and, as a bonus, it will do him good. Look out
for a secondhand canvas tent.

C L Imber said:

In general buy the heaviest and bulkiest kit available. It will help
him build character and, as a bonus, it will do him good. Look out
for a secondhand canvas tent.

And don't forgt to take plenty of spare food, two spare sets of clothes,
a large emergency kit, a few books to read in the evenings, portable CD
player plus a good collection of CDs and few handbooks to help recognise
birds, plants, trees and so on.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

C L Imber said:

In general buy the heaviest and bulkiest kit available. It will help
him build character and, as a bonus, it will do him good. Look out
for a secondhand canvas tent.

And don't forgt to take plenty of spare food, two spare sets of clothes,
a large emergency kit, a few books to read in the evenings, portable CD
player plus a good collection of CDs and few handbooks to help recognise
birds, plants, trees and so on.

I'm surprised you didn't mention one of those 35mm Russian cameras to
help him take nice photographs of those birds, plants, trees and so
on.

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

I wish I still had my Zorki.

C L Imber said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention one of those 35mm Russian cameras to
help him take nice photographs of those birds, plants, trees and so
on.

How could I forget that?

Quoted message said:

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

I wish I still had my Zorki.

I still do. Mine's the 4K with the Jupiter 8 f2/50.

It's still got that distinctive Russian smell. Brings back so many
memories... 1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon for example.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

C L Imber said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention one of those 35mm Russian cameras to
help him take nice photographs of those birds, plants, trees and so
on.

How could I forget that?

Quoted message said:

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

I wish I still had my Zorki.

I still do. Mine's the 4K with the Jupiter 8 f2/50.

It's still got that distinctive Russian smell. Brings back so many
memories... 1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon for example.

Surely the photography hadn't even been invented at the time of the
1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon.

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

C L Imber said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention one of those 35mm Russian cameras to
help him take nice photographs of those birds, plants, trees and so
on.

How could I forget that?

Quoted message said:

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

I wish I still had my Zorki.

I still do. Mine's the 4K with the Jupiter 8 f2/50.

It's still got that distinctive Russian smell. Brings back so many
memories... 1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon for example.

Zenith. With a Leica thread.
--
Gordon

C L Imber <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Paul Saunders said:

C L Imber said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention one of those 35mm Russian cameras to
help him take nice photographs of those birds, plants, trees and so
on.

How could I forget that?

Quoted message said:

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

I wish I still had my Zorki.

I still do. Mine's the 4K with the Jupiter 8 f2/50.

It's still got that distinctive Russian smell. Brings back so many
memories... 1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon for example.

Surely the photography hadn't even been invented at the time of the
1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon.

Them were good days. This newsgroup were all about walkin.

That Arthur Pinhole has a lot to answer for......
--
Gordon

C L Imber said:

Quoted message said:

It's still got that distinctive Russian smell. Brings back so many
memories... 1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon for example.

Surely the photography hadn't even been invented at the time of the
1st ascents of Cadair Idris and Snowdon.

LOS! (laughing out silently). I almost ruined a keyboard there but I
managed to hold it in.

Obviously I was talking about *my* personal first ascents.
Unfortunately that was when my Snowdon photography jinx first struck.

Did I ever mention my Snowdon photography jinx?

First time I failed to load the film correctly and spent the entire day
photographing nothing. The film wasn't moving through the camera.
First and last time that's ever happened. But why then? It was a
fantastic day. Incredibly clear. Could see half of Anglesey.

Second time I'd knackered my knee on Tryfan the day before so wasn't
capable of getting to the summit. Only made it as far as Glaslyn.

Third time the weather was atrocious (first time on the Horseshoe) and I
was using video. Made the mistake of getting it out in the cafe at the
top. Affected by moisture (condensation) it refused to work for the
rest of the walk.

Fourth time I forgot to bring any slide film with me!!! Of all the
things to forget! I had tons of the stuff at home! Had to make do with
some overpriced Kodak negative film from Beddgelert (didn't have much
spare cash with me, the cost of slide film was ridiculous, and they
didn't sell Fuji - are the Kodak mafia in control of Snowdonia or what?)
Oh yeah, and the fog rolled in over Crib Goch just as we reached Bwlch y
Saethau, just before I could find a decent viewpoint. Still got some
good shots, but negs? Ugh!

Fact is, something always seems to go wrong when I climb Snowdon.
Something that affects my photography. Maybe I should make a point of
climbing it more often to try to break this bloody jinx?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Toffee Babinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My son will be starting his Bronze early next year, can anyone give any
advice on type of kit to buy - particularly sleeping bags, rucksacks, and
waterproofs - as there are some good deals in the outdoor shops right

now -

Quoted message said:

guess there will be a change of stock for next years 'colours' etc.
Thanks
Dave

What do your son's DofE leaders suggest?
What are his team-mates taking?
What/will any gear be provided?
When and where is he walking?

Look at weight as a priority, lightweight gear is better but don't go
totally overboard! Talk to shop staff as someone there should know what
they're talking about, do shop around to get different opinions. IIRC
Millets, Field & Trek and some others offer discounts to DofE participants,
just show the card.

See if you can borrow someone elses rucksack (55litre should do it) and do a
test run at packing it following the kitlist which you should have been
given. Then go out and compare different rucksacks in different shops.

Try going to an outlet shoping centre for good deals, I got a nice pair of
Brasher boots, a nice Gelert waterproof and some light trousers all much
reduced in price but still good quality.
Your new sleepingbag should be a mummy sack that packs down small and not a
square cut cheap and cheerful bag as these offer no warmth protection for
the head, the key source of heat loss.

One trick I was told for DofE was to pack each days clothing inside a
separate sealable freezer bag and write the contents on the outside. This
helps keep things extra dry when it rains/falls in a stream and keep the
rucksack contents tidy-ish. This does not replace a good rucksack liner BTW.

HTH,
Nick

In article <[email hidden]>, pvs1
@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk says...

Quoted message said:

C L Imber wrote:

Fact is, something always seems to go wrong when I climb Snowdon.
Something that affects my photography. Maybe I should make a point of
climbing it more often to try to break this bloody jinx?

can you give the area a wide berth next weekend please :-)

--
Darren

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:06:09 +0000 (UTC), "Toffee Babinski"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

My son will be starting his Bronze early next year, can anyone give any
advice on type of kit to buy - particularly sleeping bags, rucksacks, and
waterproofs - as there are some good deals in the outdoor shops right now -
guess there will be a change of stock for next years 'colours' etc.
Thanks
Dave

Some organisations have the kit for loan, might be cheaper than
buying.

Some shops will do a discount for DofE participants, do a quick check
before you buy.

I can't suggest what you should buy...

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

"Toffee Babinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My son will be starting his Bronze early next year, can anyone give any
advice on type of kit to buy - particularly sleeping bags, rucksacks, and
waterproofs - as there are some good deals in the outdoor shops right

now -

Quoted message said:

guess there will be a change of stock for next years 'colours' etc.
Thanks
Dave

For bronze, not very much, since there's something like one training walk
( 1 day) and a low level expedition (1 overnight) with relatively short
walking days. At this level, I'd try and borrow kit, since if he doesn't
like that side of things, and doesn't progress to silver and gold,
investment in good quality stuff could be wasted.

From what I've seen of DoE expeditions, they tend to (certainly at the
higher levels) get the kids loaded down with far too much heavy kit, too
many spare clothes and so much "emergency" stuff that the weight of carrying
it all is likely to cause an emergency!

My daughter did her bronze with a 45 litre rucksack and one of the cheapest
in our family store of sleeping bags ( thinking ahead here...a tent full of
girls being silly = spillages...well anticipated in this case...it came back
with cocoa, jam and butter all over it!). She just took a bog-standard
non-breathable cag as a waterproof...there was only about 5 hours walking on
each day, it was in spring/ early summer and if it rained hard, she could
put up with being a bit uncomfortable rather than us pay out loads for stuff
she may not use again. Just as well, she's decided not to do silver and
gold.

If your lad is absolutely certain that he'll go on to silver and gold, and
is likely to take up outdoor activities in general, then yes, think about
buying him some decent stuff.

Rucksack: 55 litres should be an ample size for even his long gold
expedition. If you get a bigger one, he'll only end up over-filling it and
carrying too much. It should have a good back system, well padded shoulder s
traps and a decent padded hip belt. Lid and side pockets are useful in
sacks that'll mainly be used for walking. The only way to decide on the
best is to fill a variety of sacks with a reasonable load and then walk
about the shop with each of them in turn. I stress that the load should be
a decent weight...padding one out with a couple of down jackets, as I saw an
assistant do in a local shop recently, really won't give an idea of how the
sack sits with a full load.

Sleeping bag: even on the gold expedition, the nights will be spent
relatively low, in relatively benign environments, so no need to get a top
of the range "down to minus 20" 4 season bag. A 3 season bag will be quite
adequate, and within that range it's up to you how much you want to spend.
For the same temperature range, price will increase as weight and bulk
decrease. Synthetic will be more bulky than down, but not as susceptible to
losing insulating properties if it gets wet. Having said that, I've always
used down, and never had a problem keeping them dry, even in British
autumns. Down's very expensive, though, and there are many decent
synthetics that aren't *too* heavy and pack down relatively well....remember
that a bulky bag will fill out the rucksack. Get a "mummy" style with a
padded hood.

A karrimat will be fine for under the bag. Thermarests are more
comfortable, but at that age it shouldn't be a worry, and karrimats are
vastly cheaper.

Waterproofs: lightweight non-breathable waterproof overtrousers should be
fine. That's all I ever use, even these days. Something that packs down
very small and isn't too bulky. For the jacket, don't get too "technical".
Something breatheable but low in the product range will be fine.

Rob

"Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

See if you can borrow someone elses rucksack (55litre should do it)

For DOE? ROTFLMAO!
You aren't even supposed to ATTEMPT DOE without at least 90 Ltr sacs! Full
to the brim!

In article <[email hidden]>, Toffee Babinski
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

My son will be starting his Bronze early next year, can anyone give any
advice on type of kit to buy - particularly sleeping bags, rucksacks, and
waterproofs - as there are some good deals in the outdoor shops right now -
guess there will be a change of stock for next years 'colours' etc.
Thanks
Dave

Keep your eye on the special offers at Aldi and Lidl both have their
offers on their web sites - Aldi will email you the offers each week and
pehaps Lidl do too.

You can get some good value clothing, rucksacks and sleeping bags in the
offers so, if they are on offer before you need them, you can save a lot
of cash over outdoor shop prices.

For several years my son (15) has been borrowing my gear for scout &
DofE trips but now, thanks to Aldi's offers, he has his own. I no longer
need to worry bout how messy it gets and just throw it in the washing
machine when he gets back. If he does manage to damage it I won't be too
worried about it - If he damaged my kit I would be distraught!

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

Darren G said:

Quoted message said:

Fact is, something always seems to go wrong when I climb Snowdon.

Quoted message said:

can you give the area a wide berth next weekend please :-)

Certainly. How much are you willing to pay me? ;-)

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Toffee Babinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My son will be starting his Bronze early next year, can anyone give any
advice on type of kit to buy - particularly sleeping bags, rucksacks, and
waterproofs - as there are some good deals in the outdoor shops right

now -

Quoted message said:

guess there will be a change of stock for next years 'colours' etc.
Thanks
Dave

1. find out a bit more about what's needed.
2. borrow what you can.
3. don't spend much money on the rest.

Before anything else, I would buy a compass. This is about the most
important thing for walking that one can own, but you need to learn how to
use it properly and owning your own helps. This may be the only time that
anyone ever bothers to teach decent navigation skills, so it's really worth
making the most of it. A compass will get far more use than, say, a sleeping
bag, on D of E, and if he does take to walking, even a cheap one will last
years and do the perfect job, no matter what conditions, provided the proper
skills have been learned. You don't need a fancy one (and totally avoid
electronic ones), so something like a £15 Silva will do:
http://www.fieldandtrek.com/ft1/product.asp?currency=GBP&pf%5Fid=25160&mscssid=VG5FGP989T1L8P6W54AES3M7HJ1126K0

If you have to buy other stuff:
Trousers - NOT jeans. Army surplus is a good source.
Rucksack - one of the cheapy 'own brand' ones like pro-action. 50 litres
should be plenty. Not much more than £40, really. It's good to try it on,
but most rucksacks nowadays would be fine for 1/2 nights.
A karrimat is a good idea. £10-20.
Sleeping bag - synthetic. 2 season/above 0degrees. Don't need to pay more
than about £30. If it's cold, he can always put on more clothes.
Waterproofs - GoreTex would be rather overkill at this stage. On the other
hand, as this is about the only item of kit that can be used elsewhere (a
general rain jacket, or for ski-ing use etc.), then it *might* be worth
spending a bit more. But £150 max IMHO - but more like £50. Don't bother
with waterproof trousers.
Boots. About the only thing worth really thinking about. Got to a shop where
they know what they're talking about. Budget for about £80. Slightly cheaper
"approach" shoes might do. Again, provided you get the right thing, they can
come in handy in everyday life.

Aside, perhaps, from feet even the cheapiest gear is likely to be fine. It's
only good splashing the cash if you know exactly what you want - and that
can only come through experience. If he gets into it, then over time he'll
start to know what he wants, and therefore what he needs to replace. It's
suprising how often cheap sleeping bags come in handy - and how often you're
glad that it's only cheap. If it's cheap, it doesn't matter what happens to
it.

Ken said:

Before anything else, I would buy a compass. This is about the most
important thing for walking that one can own

Not actually that much use on its own, without a map it's pretty pointless.

Quoted message said:

but you need to learn how to
use it properly and owning your own helps. This may be the only time that
anyone ever bothers to teach decent navigation skills, so it's really worth
making the most of it.

IMHO the best way to get good with map and compass is go to a few
orienteering events. Beginners ae welcome and I'd be surprised if
someone wasn't willing to lend a hand to get a lad started.

Quoted message said:

If you have to buy other stuff:
Trousers - NOT jeans. Army surplus is a good source.

I prefer track suit trousers: lighter, better freedom of movement, hold
less water when wet and dry out quicker, and he'll probably have some
already.

Quoted message said:

Don't bother with waterproof trousers.

Much as I personally loathe the things there are times when they're
worth having, especially if you're facing a couple of hours heavy rain
and you're already tired and not that warm. Also possibly the case that
they'd be on a required kit list.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Not actually that much use on its own, without a map it's pretty
pointless.

No it's not. It's got a point. It's a red point. It points north.
;-)

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk