Does Mother Nature Really Know Best?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You should Google this site (I can't do links with WebTV).

It's almost hilarious.

A Readers Digest woman reporter (without identifying her occupation)
went to 25 different Naturopathic "doctors" across Austrailia & this is
her report.

I suspect the U. S. situation wouldn't be much different.

Most entertaining.

http://journalism.uts.edu.au/subjects/oj1/oj1_a2002/natural_therapies/patien
tagainst.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/2odya

--Rich

Why can you not type in a URL with webTV? It is only text or is there
certain letters you cannot type?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You should Google this site (I can't do links with WebTV).

It's almost hilarious.

A Readers Digest woman reporter (without identifying her occupation)
went to 25 different Naturopathic "doctors" across Austrailia & this is
her report.

I suspect the U. S. situation wouldn't be much different.

Quoted message said:

You should Google this site (I can't do links with WebTV).

Maybe you should get a real computer.

Just a suggestion.
--

Take out the G'RBAGE for private replies.
[email hidden]

[email hidden] wrote:
[below this reply]

Any discussion as to inadequacies within "alt health" can only be
understood in the context of that which they are "alternative" to.

And there, the actual physical harm arises, not excluding death.
And yes, this is my own personal and family experience.

I would not have chosen for the discussion to lead in that direction.
It is the choice of the above poster.
I assure you, any such discussion will not be "hilarious".

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...
You should Google this site (I can't do links with WebTV).

It's almost hilarious.

--
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Maybe "appalled" should have been a better choice of words?

Can you imagine all those people those 25 "Naturopathic Doctors" see
very day who are NOT investigative reporters?

I have a sister-in-law in Los Angeles who's been going to Naturopathic
Doctors for years. The current (& her last one) just touch the tips of
her fingers & then tell her what additional supplements she needs..
Naturally, they also sell them , though she has gotten a little
(monetarily) smarter & now buys them by mail order. A good idea since
she's currently takes over 20 pills daily.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
[below this reply]

Any discussion as to inadequacies within "alt health" can only be
understood in the context of that which they are "alternative" to.

I see your logic. If doctors practising in a much more complex and
dangerous environment can make serious mistakes, and don't always practice
to a high standard, and some of their treatments for serious or disabling
illnesses can have serious side effects, then it is quite OK for
naturopathic medicine to be ridiculous.

I suggest it is only OK when they are treating patients for conditions that
don't exist with methods that don't do anything much, as is amply
demonstrated here.

The only thing that makes naturopathic and other alt medicine safe, to the
extent that it is safe, is that there are proper doctors doing diagnostic
work on exactly the same folk (nearly all those who use alt also use normal
doctors) and who are constantly weeding out and accepting responsibility for
treating the more seriously ill in the same population of individuals.
Naturopaths and other alt practitioners NEVER acknowledge the extent to
which they are practicising in a very highly selected and protected
environment. They never even have to get out of bed in the middle of the
night.

They also have the luxury of not having to take responsibility for anything
they do. It was a naturopath, I think, that got away with missing a
diagnosis leading to death because naturopaths are not regarded as having
the expertise needed to make such diagnoses.

Peter Moran

The vast majority of healthcare is just making people feel good - you can
get that from mainstream or the other side.
Anth

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Maybe "appalled" should have been a better choice of words?

Can you imagine all those people those 25 "Naturopathic Doctors" see
very day who are NOT investigative reporters?

I have a sister-in-law in Los Angeles who's been going to Naturopathic
Doctors for years. The current (& her last one) just touch the tips of
her fingers & then tell her what additional supplements she needs..
Naturally, they also sell them , though she has gotten a little
(monetarily) smarter & now buys them by mail order. A good idea since
she's currently takes over 20 pills daily.

Anth said:

The vast majority of healthcare is just making people feel good - you can
get that from mainstream or the other side.
Anth

sci.med.cannabis

agrees with your assertion.
--
WB

"I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
-Yoshimo

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You should Google this site (I can't do links with WebTV).

===========================
Which site? You didn't include an URL.

Kim

Peter Moran said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
[below this reply]

Any discussion as to inadequacies within "alt health" can only be
understood in the context of that which they are "alternative" to.

I see your logic. If doctors practising in a much more complex and
dangerous environment can make serious mistakes, and don't always
practice to a high standard, and some of their treatments for serious or
disabling illnesses can have serious side effects, then it is quite OK
for naturopathic medicine to be ridiculous.

No, that is not what I was saying. Rather, that if one "system" (although
it is most certainly not a cohesive system) is to be ridiculed, then the
question needs to be asked as to how and why the situation arose.

Quoted message said:

I suggest it is only OK when they are treating patients for conditions
that don't exist with methods that don't do anything much, as is amply
demonstrated here.

If you were citing a study to that effect, then it could be worth
considering. Heresay, via a magazine article, is hardly "ample
demonstration". Or if it is, there are many such which paint an entirely
different picture.

Quoted message said:

The only thing that makes naturopathic and other alt medicine safe, to
the extent that it is safe, is that there are proper doctors doing
diagnostic work on exactly the same folk (nearly all those who use alt
also use normal doctors) and who are constantly weeding out and accepting
responsibility for treating the more seriously ill in the same population
of individuals.

I agree that where there is a possibility that the person seeking specific
"alt" health advice is actually presenting with symptoms of a more serious
illness, then a certified medical diagnosis should be the place to begin.

And also, that for serious, critical and advanced conditions which are
treatable, then the person should be referred to a physician in the first
instance. (However the choice to follow through with such treatment, in
most cases, remains the right and responsibility of the patient.)

I also agree that the presence of the Medical System, with its professional
standards of care and accountability, does "take the weight" from NDs and
others, allowing them to work in a much lighter environment than would be
the case if there were no Med System.

Conversely, however, some of the cases that NDs pick up and work with
are casualties from weaknesses within that system.

Quoted message said:

Naturopaths and other alt practitioners NEVER acknowledge
the extent to which they are practicising in a very highly selected and
protected environment.

You might be surprised if you went around your own home town,
for example, and talked to some of them - to those who were fully trained,
qualified and registered Naturopathic Practitioners, Herbalists, or
practitioners within TCM. If you were to discuss the matter with them, I
think that at least some would agree with you.

Quoted message said:

They never even have to get out of bed in the
middle of the night.

Not exactly true. Some do remain on call when needed. And in cases such
as home-birth midwives, they may have to schedule their own "sleeping
hours" just to catch up when they can.

Quoted message said:

They also have the luxury of not having to take responsibility for
anything they do. It was a naturopath, I think, that got away with
missing a diagnosis leading to death because naturopaths are not regarded
as having the expertise needed to make such diagnoses.

If we are talking avoiding responsibility, then I would ask, what are your
thoughts regarding the nurses who lost their jobs and in some cases their
career when trying to speak out against ongoing abuses within Sutherland
(?) Hospital in Sydney not too long ago?

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It's not all harmless. Several years ago, that same sister-in-law's
husband went into a diabetic coma at work within a week after her (now
former) Naturopathic Doctor strongly recommended weaning him off of
insulin & onto a high volume vitamin/supplement regimen (he had been on
insulin for almost 60 years since a youngster with that never once
happening).

Unfortunately, in the ambulance ride to the hospital, he also suffered a
stroke. Though the (medical) doctors pulled him through & he came back
to a certain extent for a year with much rehabilitation, his health
eventually deteriorated & he was bedridden for the last 2 years of his
life.

I should mention that immediately prior to this incident & even with
this serious- though-controllable condition, he worked full-time (as a
technical writer), rode his bike back & forth to work every day (almost
20 miles total) for years, & in the two previous summers biked from Los
Angeles to San Francisco & back just for a lark...& the guy was 68 years
old! So he was living with his diabetes rather well at that point.

I've since learned that it isn't all that unusual for naturopathic
practitioners to try to get diabetics off insulin & onto "natural"
remedies. Although I don't know the current status of this particular
case, there was a Naturopathic Doctor criminally charged in either North
or South Carolina in the death of a diabetic young girl for doing just
that.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

The vast majority of healthcare is just making people feel good - you can
get that from mainstream or the other side.

That's quite true -- and it's one reason that so many alt
practitioners "get results." There are so many people who
just want to be listened to, including the "worried well."

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Maybe "appalled" should have been a better choice of words?

Can you imagine all those people those 25 "Naturopathic Doctors" see
very day who are NOT investigative reporters?

I have a sister-in-law in Los Angeles who's been going to Naturopathic
Doctors for years. The current (& her last one) just touch the tips of
her fingers & then tell her what additional supplements she needs..
Naturally, they also sell them , though she has gotten a little
(monetarily) smarter & now buys them by mail order. A good idea since
she's currently takes over 20 pills daily.

Sounds like a quack to me. why would a ND bother to interfere with a long
term solution unless this patient wanted off real badly.

Just like the chem/cut doctors, 50% of them graduated at the bottom half of
their class.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's not all harmless. Several years ago, that same sister-in-law's
husband went into a diabetic coma at work within a week after her (now
former) Naturopathic Doctor strongly recommended weaning him off of
insulin & onto a high volume vitamin/supplement regimen (he had been on
insulin for almost 60 years since a youngster with that never once
happening).

Unfortunately, in the ambulance ride to the hospital, he also suffered a
stroke. Though the (medical) doctors pulled him through & he came back
to a certain extent for a year with much rehabilitation, his health
eventually deteriorated & he was bedridden for the last 2 years of his
life.

I should mention that immediately prior to this incident & even with
this serious- though-controllable condition, he worked full-time (as a
technical writer), rode his bike back & forth to work every day (almost
20 miles total) for years, & in the two previous summers biked from Los
Angeles to San Francisco & back just for a lark...& the guy was 68 years
old! So he was living with his diabetes rather well at that point.

I've since learned that it isn't all that unusual for naturopathic
practitioners to try to get diabetics off insulin & onto "natural"
remedies. Although I don't know the current status of this particular
case, there was a Naturopathic Doctor criminally charged in either North
or South Carolina in the death of a diabetic young girl for doing just
that.