Does innertube wall thickness matter?

"Jim Higson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So has anyone found a correlation (anecdotal or a proper study) between

reliability of tubes and their weights?

I have tried dozens of different types of tyres over the years and have now
more or less eliminated punctures. The critical factor is the tyre, the
inner tubes don't really matter assuming they are not faulty. A tyre that is
HARD and not worn in the most important thing I find. At the moment I have
two makes that have never punctured which are Conti 4 Seasons on my summer
bike and Bontrager Hard Case on the winter bike. They have been through
glass strewn roads in all weathers.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Jim Higson said:

I've noticed the different thicknesses of latex innertubes available.
On the big side is a 300g (more than a road tyre!) downhill tube and
on the skinny side, a "supersonic" road bike weenie 50g tube

I've got to buy some road tubes, which mostly seem to be in the
50-120g range.

Is there any difference in terms of p*n*t*r*s? I'd have thought
anything sharp enough to get through the tyre's casing would get
through the soft innertube rubber regardless of thickness of the
walls.

I agree - for ordinary punctures. However, thin walled tubes are more
likely to develop holes seemingly by themselves for no apparent reason -
presumably from abrasion, even when there's nothing particularly rough about
the tyre and rim tape. The worst for this are Continental Supersonic.

The Supersonic's butyl has to be riculously thin to get the weight down to
50 grams. In my opinion now, one of these is only worth having as a
/second/ spare tube (to save space) if you do want to carry more than one
spare. That's it.

It also doesn't help that the reinforcement pad around the valve is small
and round instead of the usual large oval. This is true for the Vredestein
Race as well (unless they've changed recently).

Quoted message said:

Probably the thinner ones have less rolling resistance and
make the wheels a tiny bit lighter.

I think it is worth using /moderately/ light tubes to save a bit of weight,
if you're bothered about that sort of thing. It's a cheap way of doing so.
For 700x18-23ish, Michelin Ultralite and Schwalble Extra Light are quite
reliable and weigh about 75 grams.

Otherwise just get standard tubes which are about 100 grams. Any difference
in rolling resistance must be minute compared to the tyre's rolling
resistance.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

Probably the thinner ones have less rolling resistance and
make the wheels a tiny bit lighter.

I think it is worth using /moderately/ light tubes to save a bit of
weight,
if you're bothered about that sort of thing. It's a cheap way of doing
so. For 700x18-23ish, Michelin Ultralite and Schwalble Extra Light are
quite reliable and weigh about 75 grams.

Between the two you mention as being ok the Michelin seem quite a lot
cheaper. On dotbike.com it is £4.50 for Michelin vs £8.50 for Schwalbe. Do
you think there's anything between the two quality-wise?

I'm using Dotbike for their free delivery, btw. For an order of two tubes it
helps not to be charged £3 to send it out.

--
Jim

Jim Higson said:

Between the two you mention as being ok the Michelin seem quite a lot
cheaper. On dotbike.com it is £4.50 for Michelin vs £8.50 for
Schwalbe. Do you think there's anything between the two quality-wise?

I have the feeling that Schwalbe's should be more durable because their
butyl is slightly more flexible, but that's just a guess, really. I
wouldn't pay £8.50 for one anyway. I got my last lot via eBay.

Michelins are still great value for money, imo. Their valve stems are
threadless, though. Not so handy for push-on pumps with no locking lever.

~PB

ps. Average actual weight of both Michelin Ultralite and Schwalble Extra
Light is 74 grams, despite Schwalbe claiming theirs are 65g.

Schwalbe's valve cores are replaceable - not that you're ever likely to have
a valve core failure.

Vittorias are nice and cheap but I had some fail at the bond between valve
and tube.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Higson said:

Between the two you mention as being ok the Michelin seem quite a lot
cheaper. On dotbike.com it is £4.50 for Michelin vs £8.50 for
Schwalbe. Do you think there's anything between the two quality-wise?

I have the feeling that Schwalbe's should be more durable because their
butyl is slightly more flexible, but that's just a guess, really. I
wouldn't pay £8.50 for one anyway. I got my last lot via eBay.

Michelins are still great value for money, imo. Their valve stems are
threadless, though. Not so handy for push-on pumps with no locking lever.

Ok, thanks. That's more than enough pondering inner tubes for today - I'll
just go ahead and order some 🙂

Cheers,
Jim

In article <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Michelins are still great value for money, imo. Their valve stems are
threadless, though. Not so handy for push-on pumps with no locking lever.

All the thread does is chew up the rubber on the pump and stop it from
making a good seal.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Michelins are still great value for money, imo. Their valve stems
are threadless, though. Not so handy for push-on pumps with no
locking lever.

All the thread does is chew up the rubber on the pump and stop it from
making a good seal.

The seal is ok with the pumps I use. The part where the pump connects is
mostly unthreaded anyway.

The thread allows a lockring to be used, which helps get a pump on with the
tyre is soft. You can manage without by pressing valve down with thumb
through the tyre, but that's a bit of a nusance.

~PB

In article <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

The thread allows a lockring to be used, which helps get a pump on with the
tyre is soft. You can manage without by pressing valve down with thumb
through the tyre, but that's a bit of a nusance.

If you have a lockring fitted you need to slacken it when the tyre is
partially inflated so you can push the valve stem in to ensure the tube
isn't trapped by the tyre bead - to me that seems to be more hassle
than pressing the valve against the pump connector. Plus if you use
lockrings you need to remove and replace them when changing the tube,
they affect the balance of the wheel and they can hide the fact that the
tube is twisted (until the valve pulls out of the tube).

Rob Morley said:

If you have a lockring fitted you need to slacken it when the tyre is
partially inflated so you can push the valve stem in to ensure the
tube isn't trapped by the tyre bead

I find it's sufficient to do that before attaching the pump. Anyway the
lockring effectively slackens by itself as pressure pushes the valve down,
so you can do it again if you like, especially if the ring wasn't fully done
up to begin with.

Quoted message said:

- to me that seems to be more
hassle than pressing the valve against the pump connector.

It's not with pumps that have to be pushed on hard.

Quoted message said:

Plus if
you use lockrings you need to remove and replace them when changing
the tube, they affect the balance of the wheel

With most wheels, the rim joint opposite the valve is heavier than the
valve, so a lockring would help balance the wheel. Not that it's critical
for a bicycle wheel to be balanced.

Quoted message said:

and they can hide the
fact that the tube is twisted (until the valve pulls out of the tube).

They can, but that doesn't happen if everything is fitted properly to begin
with.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

ps. Average actual weight of both Michelin Ultralite and Schwalble Extra
Light is 74 grams, despite Schwalbe claiming theirs are 65g.

Schwalbe's valve cores are replaceable - not that you're ever likely to
have a valve core failure.

Vittorias are nice and cheap but I had some fail at the bond between valve
and tube.

FYI, a couple of Schwalbes I got for a good price from ebay arrived today.
They seem good.

--
Jim