Does high starch diet only work for Asians?

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

I guess it is not unlikely. Did you know that Japanesse have the highest
tobacco consumption in the world and unproportionally low incidence of
lung cancer?

Moreover, Japs may have highest live expectancy in the world, but if you
look at caucasians, it is France and Switzerland. And if there something
that French eat with any meal (3 times a day), it is full-fat cheese 🙂

Mirek

Thanks for the post.

Yeah that's true, although its changing tabacco consumption is/was
pritty damm high in some Asian countries.

Quoted message said:

I guess it is not unlikely. Did you know that Japanesse have the highest
tobacco consumption in the world and unproportionally low incidence of
lung cancer?

Moreover, Japs may have highest live expectancy in the world, but if you
look at caucasians, it is France and Switzerland. And if there something
that French eat with any meal (3 times a day), it is full-fat cheese 🙂

Mirek

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:59:39 +0200, Mirek Fidler wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

I guess it is not unlikely. Did you know that Japanesse have the highest
tobacco consumption in the world and unproportionally low incidence of
lung cancer?

Moreover, Japs may have highest live expectancy in the world, but if you
look at caucasians, it is France and Switzerland. And if there something
that French eat with any meal (3 times a day), it is full-fat cheese 🙂

Mirek

Here is the *healthy* life expectancy at birth, in years.

Japan 75.0
San Marino 73.4
Sweden 73.3
Switzerland 73.2
Monaco 72.9
Iceland 72.8
Italy 72.7
Australia 72.6
Spain 72.6
Andorra 72.2
Canada 72.0
France 72.0
Norway 72.0
Germany 71.8
Luxembourg 71.5
Austria 71.4
Israel 71.4
Netherlands 71.2
Belgium 71.1
Finland 71.1
Greece 71.0
Malta 71.0
New Zealand 70.8
United Kingdom 70.6
Singapore 70.1
Denmark 69.8
Ireland 69.8
Slovenia 69.5
United States of America 69.3
[...]

Source: WHO
http://www3.who.int/whosis/core/core_select_process.cfm?language=english&fixed=country&strISO3_select=AFG,ALB,DZA,AND,AGO,ATG,ARG,ARM,AUS,AUT,AZE,BHS,BHR,BGD,BRB,BLR,BEL,BLZ,BEN,BTN,BOL,BIH,BWA,BRA,BRN,BGR,BFA,BDI,KHM,CMR,CAN,CPV,CAF,TCD,CHL,CHN,COL,COM,COG,COK,CRI,CIV,HRV,CUB,CYP,CZE,PRK,COD,DNK,DJI,DMA,DOM,ECU,EGY,SLV,GNQ,ERI,EST,ETH,FJI,FIN,FRA,GAB,GMB,GEO,DEU,GHA,GRC,GRD,GTM,GIN,GNB,GUY,HTI,HND,HUN,ISL,IND,IDN,IRN,IRQ,IRL,ISR,ITA,JAM,JPN,JOR,KAZ,KEN,KIR,KWT,KGZ,LAO,LVA,LBN,LSO,LBR,LBY,LTU,LUX,MDG,MWI,MYS,MDV,MLI,MLT,MHL,MRT,MUS,MEX,FSM,MCO,MNG,MAR,MOZ,MMR,NAM,NRU,NPL,NLD,NZL,NIC,NER,NGA,NIU,NOR,OMN,PAK,PLW,PAN,PNG,PRY,PER,PHL,POL,PRT,QAT,KOR,MDA,ROU,RUS,RWA,KNA,LCA,VCT,WSM,SMR,STP,SAU,SEN,SCG,SYC,SLE,SGP,SVK,SVN,SLB,SOM,ZAF,ESP,LKA,SDN,SUR,SWZ,SWE,CHE,SYR,TJK,THA,MKD,TLS,TGO,TON,TTO,TUN,TUR,TKM,TUV,UGA,UKR,ARE,GBR,TZA,USA,URY,UZB,VUT,VEN,VNM,YEM,ZMB,ZWE&strIndicator_select=HALE0Both&intYear_select=2002

Light and white cheese. No long aged cheeses.

"Enrico C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:59:39 +0200, Mirek Fidler wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

I guess it is not unlikely. Did you know that Japanesse have the highest
tobacco consumption in the world and unproportionally low incidence of
lung cancer?

Moreover, Japs may have highest live expectancy in the world, but if you
look at caucasians, it is France and Switzerland. And if there something
that French eat with any meal (3 times a day), it is full-fat cheese 🙂

Mirek

Here is the *healthy* life expectancy at birth, in years.

Japan 75.0
San Marino 73.4
Sweden 73.3
Switzerland 73.2
Monaco 72.9
Iceland 72.8
Italy 72.7
Australia 72.6
Spain 72.6
Andorra 72.2
Canada 72.0
France 72.0
Norway 72.0
Germany 71.8
Luxembourg 71.5
Austria 71.4
Israel 71.4
Netherlands 71.2
Belgium 71.1
Finland 71.1
Greece 71.0
Malta 71.0
New Zealand 70.8
United Kingdom 70.6
Singapore 70.1
Denmark 69.8
Ireland 69.8
Slovenia 69.5
United States of America 69.3
[...]

Source: WHO

http://www3.who.int/whosis/core/core_select_process.cfm?language=english&fixed=country&strISO3_select=AFG,ALB,DZA,AND,AGO,ATG,ARG,ARM,AUS,AUT,AZE,BHS,BH
R,BGD,BRB,BLR,BEL,BLZ,BEN,BTN,BOL,BIH,BWA,BRA,BRN,BGR,BFA,BDI,KHM,CMR,CAN,CP
V,CAF,TCD,CHL,CHN,COL,COM,COG,COK,CRI,CIV,HRV,CUB,CYP,CZE,PRK,COD,DNK,DJI,DM
A,DOM,ECU,EGY,SLV,GNQ,ERI,EST,ETH,FJI,FIN,FRA,GAB,GMB,GEO,DEU,GHA,GRC,GRD,GT
M,GIN,GNB,GUY,HTI,HND,HUN,ISL,IND,IDN,IRN,IRQ,IRL,ISR,ITA,JAM,JPN,JOR,KAZ,KE
N,KIR,KWT,KGZ,LAO,LVA,LBN,LSO,LBR,LBY,LTU,LUX,MDG,MWI,MYS,MDV,MLI,MLT,MHL,MR
T,MUS,MEX,FSM,MCO,MNG,MAR,MOZ,MMR,NAM,NRU,NPL,NLD,NZL,NIC,NER,NGA,NIU,NOR,OM
N,PAK,PLW,PAN,PNG,PRY,PER,PHL,POL,PRT,QAT,KOR,MDA,ROU,RUS,RWA,KNA,LCA,VCT,WS
M,SMR,STP,SAU,SEN,SCG,SYC,SLE,SGP,SVK,SVN,SLB,SOM,ZAF,ESP,LKA,SDN,SUR,SWZ,SW
E,CHE,SYR,TJK,THA,MKD,TLS,TGO,TON,TTO,TUN,TUR,TKM,TUV,UGA,UKR,ARE,GBR,TZA,US
A,URY,UZB,VUT,VEN,VNM,YEM,ZMB,ZWE&strIndicator_select=HALE0Both&intYear_sele
ct=2002

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

We eat a lot of wheat as bread and cereal. I would call that starch.

Ora

Quoted message said:

Light and white cheese. No long aged cheeses.

How do you know it? Been in France?

Mirek

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading
causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
cardiovascular disease.

Susan

Another myth bites the dust? :o.

rr

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:59:06 -0400, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading
causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
cardiovascular disease.

Susan

I understand that pasta and bread is the main source of starch but the
proportion of pasta and bread in a given meal seems less compared to
asia.

In asia, if you eat out, you get a mountain of rice with a little bit
of meat and vegetable. In the US it seems like you get a lot more meat
with any bread, pasta dish you eat. The pizza for instance are alot
more greasy over in the US compared to say, Japan. There seems to be
1.5x or 2x the amount of cheese.

Off topic, but you can't get McDonald Quarter Pounder in Japan
(although they recently had a promotion, i heard). As you know a
quarter pounder has alot more meat per bun. There's a Big Macs though.

Roger Rabbit said:

Another myth bites the dust? :o.

rr

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:59:06 -0400, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
dont eat as much sugar.

Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.

Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
have a different metabolism because of our race.

According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading
causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
cardiovascular disease.

Susan

Quoted message said:

I understand that pasta and bread is the main source of starch but the
proportion of pasta and bread in a given meal seems less compared to
asia.

In asia, if you eat out, you get a mountain of rice with a little bit
of meat and vegetable. In the US it seems like you get a lot more meat
with any bread, pasta dish you eat. The pizza for instance are alot
more greasy over in the US compared to say, Japan. There seems to be
1.5x or 2x the amount of cheese.

Off topic, but you can't get McDonald Quarter Pounder in Japan
(although they recently had a promotion, i heard). As you know a
quarter pounder has alot more meat per bun. There's a Big Macs though.

Roger Rabbit said:

Another myth bites the dust? :o.

rr

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:59:06 -0400, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

[email hidden] wrote:
> I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
> adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
> dont eat as much sugar.
>
> Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
> eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.
>
> Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
> with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
> have a different metabolism because of our race.
>

True, but over there they first soak the rice and pour off the water which
contains much of the starch. Then they rinse it and get rid of some more
starch. When they finally cook it a lot of the starch is gone along with a lot
of the nutrients.

Ora

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I understand that pasta and bread is the main source of starch but the
proportion of pasta and bread in a given meal seems less compared to
asia.

In asia, if you eat out, you get a mountain of rice with a little bit
of meat and vegetable. In the US it seems like you get a lot more meat
with any bread, pasta dish you eat. The pizza for instance are alot
more greasy over in the US compared to say, Japan. There seems to be
1.5x or 2x the amount of cheese.

Off topic, but you can't get McDonald Quarter Pounder in Japan
(although they recently had a promotion, i heard). As you know a
quarter pounder has alot more meat per bun. There's a Big Macs though.

Roger Rabbit said:

Another myth bites the dust? :o.

rr

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:59:06 -0400, Susan <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>[email hidden] wrote:
>> I realize that low carb works but what is the view on high starch diets
>> adopted by oriental people (living in the far east). Yes, I know they
>> dont eat as much sugar.
>>
>> Chinese and Japanese have always adopted a high starch diet. They can
>> eat (and do eat) rice/noodles 3 times a day.
>>
>> Do people think its in the genese? I was talking about high starch diet
>> with some people over here (no asians) and they made it seem like we
>> have a different metabolism because of our race.
>>

True, but over there they first soak the rice and pour off the water which
contains much of the starch. Then they rinse it and get rid of some more
starch. When they finally cook it a lot of the starch is gone along with a lot
of the nutrients.

Ora

Still too high in carbohydrate for my liking. Unless you are extremely
active I wouldn't consume such a high-carb diet. I believe our carbs
should come in the form of vegetables and also fruits but in
moderation.

rr

I like veg and fruit carbs only if its in the whole form (not juices)
but is there a justification to say that you cant have a healthy weight
on a high starch diet based on rice, pasta, bread etc? There's still
more lean people then fat people in asia who are on a rice based diet.

If its a gene issue, I guess there's a case for eating less rice,
pasta, bread etc. What is the obesity rate of asian americans?

Yeah that's true they do wash off the rice but how much starch starch
can you actuallly rince off by washing rice? Can anyone tell us,
please?

Roger Rabbit said:

Quoted message said:

True, but over there they first soak the rice and pour off the water which
contains much of the starch. Then they rinse it and get rid of some more
starch. When they finally cook it a lot of the starch is gone along with a lot
of the nutrients.

Ora

Still too high in carbohydrate for my liking. Unless you are extremely
active I wouldn't consume such a high-carb diet. I believe our carbs
should come in the form of vegetables and also fruits but in
moderation.

rr

French provinces in Canada

"Mirek Fidler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Light and white cheese. No long aged cheeses.

How do you know it? Been in France?

Mirek

"Another myth bites the dust? :o."

Regarding:

"According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
cardiovascular disease."

This is valid only for current asian diets, not the traditional diet where
carbohydrates made up 70 percent of the diet. If anything, they might eat
fewer carbs now as they have increased intake of more fats and proteins
closer to the US diet. The traditional diet areas of e. asia have one of
the lowest risk levels for metabolic related diseases and one of the
longer life spans, all with a very high carb diet much of which is of the
refined variety,ie. white rice and noodles etc., as the majority of each
meal.

Quoted message said:

"Another myth bites the dust? :o."

Regarding:

"According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
cardiovascular disease."

This is valid only for current asian diets, not the traditional diet where
carbohydrates made up 70 percent of the diet. If anything, they might eat
fewer carbs now as they have increased intake of more fats and proteins
closer to the US diet. The traditional diet areas of e. asia have one of
the lowest risk levels for metabolic related diseases and one of the
longer life spans, all with a very high carb diet much of which is of the
refined variety,ie. white rice and noodles etc., as the majority of each
meal.

True enough. Just as the people of the Mediterranean consumed pasta
made from refined flour. I think there were enough other
slow-digesting foods in their diets to counter the high-glycemic
effect of the pastas and breads they consumed.

RBR

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:11:14 -0400, RBR wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Another myth bites the dust? :o."

Regarding:

"According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading

Quoted message said:

>causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
>low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
>of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
>Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
>cardiovascular disease."

This is valid only for current asian diets, not the traditional diet where
carbohydrates made up 70 percent of the diet. If anything, they might eat
fewer carbs now as they have increased intake of more fats and proteins
closer to the US diet. The traditional diet areas of e. asia have one of
the lowest risk levels for metabolic related diseases and one of the
longer life spans, all with a very high carb diet much of which is of the
refined variety,ie. white rice and noodles etc., as the majority of each
meal.

True enough. Just as the people of the Mediterranean consumed pasta
made from refined flour.

Pasta is usually made from durum wheat "semola" (semi-milled semolina), not
from flour.

Quoted message said:

I think there were enough other
slow-digesting foods in their diets to counter the high-glycemic
effect of the pastas and breads they consumed.

RBR

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

"According to the WHO, cardiovascular disease is one of the leading

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

causes of mortality in south east Asia, while in China (despite the
low prevalence of heart attack in Beijing) there is a high prevalence
of heart disease and an extremely high mortality rate from stroke.
Over a quarter (27.4%) of all deaths in China are due to
cardiovascular disease."

This is valid only for current asian diets, not the traditional diet where
carbohydrates made up 70 percent of the diet. If anything, they might eat
fewer carbs now as they have increased intake of more fats and proteins
closer to the US diet. The traditional diet areas of e. asia have one of
the lowest risk levels for metabolic related diseases and one of the
longer life spans, all with a very high carb diet much of which is of the
refined variety,ie. white rice and noodles etc., as the majority of each
meal.

Not so, if you research it on Medline. Poor folks, eating a lot of
starch and noodles out of necessity, but not eating westernized food in
urban areas, are suffering from CVD too.

Those with access to fish, meat and more fresh veggies fare better.

Susan

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:52:52 +0200, Enrico C wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

True enough. Just as the people of the Mediterranean consumed pasta
made from refined flour.

Pasta is usually made from durum wheat "semola" (semi-milled semolina), not
from flour.

http://www.wheatfoods.org/faqs/index.asp
What is semolina and how does it differ from durum flour?
Semolina is the coarsely ground endosperm of durum wheat. High in
protein, it is used to make the highest quality pasta. It is also used to
make couscous - a North African and Latin American dish which is quickly
becoming a staple in North America. Durum flour is a by-product in the
production of semolina and is used for American noodles, some pastas and
some specialty breads.

Quoted message said:

I like veg and fruit carbs only if its in the whole form (not juices)
but is there a justification to say that you cant have a healthy weight
on a high starch diet based on rice, pasta, bread etc? There's still
more lean people then fat people in asia who are on a rice based diet.

What is their activity level compared to the typical American's?

Quoted message said:

If its a gene issue, I guess there's a case for eating less rice,
pasta, bread etc. What is the obesity rate of asian americans?

I don't think anyone believes its a gene issue. I don't know what the
obesity rate is for Asian Americans but they do not fare as well as
their fellow Asians living back home. Look no further than the
American diet and lifestyle.

Quoted message said:

Yeah that's true they do wash off the rice but how much starch starch
can you actuallly rince off by washing rice? Can anyone tell us,
please?

When I eat rice I usually buy a low-starch basmati rice from one of
our local Indian food stores.

rr