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Does bike improvement take longer?

Started by Dave Hallsworth · · Last activity · 13 posts · 503 views

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Triathlon
Published
25 September 2004
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29 September 2004
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Dave Hallsworth
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  1. Hello,

    Where running is concerned, the more I train, the faster I get with
    seemingly less effort.

    Where swimming is concerned, the more I go to the pool and swim +
    concentrate on technique, the better I can feel my technique getting, and
    the faster / more efficient I seem to get.

    Where the bike is concerned though, I try to put the miles in and it's still
    bloody hard work!! This is partly because I still haven't got it fitted
    perfectly, and partly because I'm still getting used to dealing with the
    hills in my area on a double chainset. My 'average' ride on an undulating
    course is about 50km at an average of 30kph, but I do rides between 20-70km.
    I also do occasional hill work when I don't have time for a full ride. I'm
    training for a sprint tri.

    I have a running and swimming background, so I expected those to be a little
    easier, but I've been banging away at the bike for a couple of months, and
    it's not seeming to get any easier.

    Any advice very much appreciated!!

    Dave

  2. Several things.

    First, fit is VERY important. I'd strongly recommend you to head to a
    shop and pay for a measured fitting - something like the Fit Kit or
    similar systems. You'd be amazed how much difference it can make. It
    will probably feel funny for a while, but you'll get used to it and it
    will likely help a lot.

    Second, honestly, you don't need a triple unless you're 250 lbs or going
    up Alp D'heuz. If you want easier gears, look for something like FSA's
    Compact crankset - this is what Tyler Hamilton uses on mountain stages.
    It has smaller tooth chainrings for additional help climbing. Still, to
    climb better, you need to improve your strength, and simply spinning
    your way up is not the way to do this. There are a number of resources
    on the web that can help you with this one.

    Third, how do you ride? Do you mainly ride alone or with a group? If
    it's a group, how speedy are they?
    If you ride by yourself, your effort is often much lower than you would
    put out with a faster group. You will likely ride at a nice, comfortable
    pace, and that makes it hard to get much improvement. Like with swimming
    and running, unless you work on going faster, you probably won't go much
    faster. (My wife is in this boat. She's reluctant to try and keep up
    with others, so she rides by herself, and then gets frustrated that she
    can't get faster!) My recommendation is to find a group that you can
    ride with that will challenge you. Most areas have recreational riding
    clubs with free group rides open to the public. Within these, there are
    usually different packs that go out at various paces. Find one that's
    probably a bit faster than you are, and do your best to stay with them
    as long as you can. When you finally get dropped, catch up at the water
    stop and go do it again. After a while, you should find it easier and
    easier to keep up.

    Fourth, how often do you ride? You mention distances, but not frequency.
    Like running, you need both a sufficient base as well as enough weekly
    miles put in if you want to see much improvement. Personally, I find
    that I need to do at least 160km (100 mi) a week to really start to feel
    OK.

    Remember that you are new to this. A few months does not give you much
    time to develop any sort of base, or proper leg strength. It will take
    time. Still, 30kph average is far from slow, especially for a new rider.

    Lastly, while it may not seem like it, technique is very important for
    cycling as well. There are a lot of little things to learn, such as how
    to pedal smoothly, how (and when) to stand up, efficient climbing,
    aerodynamic positioning, etc. I've been riding for years and I'm still
    amazed how much I learn from riding with more experienced cyclists!

    Dave Hallsworth said:


    Hello,

    Where running is concerned, the more I train, the faster I get with
    seemingly less effort.

    Where swimming is concerned, the more I go to the pool and swim +
    concentrate on technique, the better I can feel my technique getting, and
    the faster / more efficient I seem to get.

    Where the bike is concerned though, I try to put the miles in and it's still
    bloody hard work!! This is partly because I still haven't got it fitted
    perfectly, and partly because I'm still getting used to dealing with the
    hills in my area on a double chainset. My 'average' ride on an undulating
    course is about 50km at an average of 30kph, but I do rides between 20-70km.
    I also do occasional hill work when I don't have time for a full ride. I'm
    training for a sprint tri.

    I have a running and swimming background, so I expected those to be a little
    easier, but I've been banging away at the bike for a couple of months, and
    it's not seeming to get any easier.

    Any advice very much appreciated!!

    Dave

  3. Firstly, thanks for the reply.

    Quoted message said:

    First, fit is VERY important. I'd strongly recommend you to head to a
    shop and pay for a measured fitting - something like the Fit Kit or
    similar systems. You'd be amazed how much difference it can make. It
    will probably feel funny for a while, but you'll get used to it and it
    will likely help a lot.

    I may well do - hopefully my local shop will do this.

    Quoted message said:

    Second, honestly, you don't need a triple unless you're 250 lbs or going
    up Alp D'heuz. If you want easier gears, look for something like FSA's
    Compact crankset - this is what Tyler Hamilton uses on mountain stages.
    It has smaller tooth chainrings for additional help climbing. Still, to
    climb better, you need to improve your strength, and simply spinning
    your way up is not the way to do this. There are a number of resources
    on the web that can help you with this one.

    Although I complain, I don't think I need a tripple. I'm just used to
    low-gearing on my MTB, and slowly coming round to the idea that going
    up-hill on a road bike simply takes more effort (but is consequently faster)

    Quoted message said:

    Third, how do you ride? Do you mainly ride alone or with a group?

    <snip - thanks for the advice>

    I ride on my own at the minute. There's a local tri-club not a mile from
    where I live. The catch-22 is that I want to improve before I join, but
    probably won't UNTIL I join. I know some friends cycle, but being rubbish
    at it in front of them is worse than being in the lower leagues of a club.
    I had the same quandry before I joined a running club and was proven to be
    very far off the mark when it came to my expectations of being the worst
    there!! I'll e-mail them now!!

    Quoted message said:

    Fourth, how often do you ride?

    At the minute, usually 2-3 times a week, but I know I have to increase this.
    I currently do 5 runs ('my sport'😉, 2 swims and 3 bikes - I should probably
    swap a run for a bike, though my runs are in the morning and for some reason
    I have a 'cycling-in-the-morning aversion'

    Quoted message said:

    Remember that you are new to this. A few months does not give you much
    time to develop any sort of base, or proper leg strength. It will take
    time. Still, 30kph average is far from slow, especially for a new rider.

    Lastly, while it may not seem like it, technique is very important for
    cycling as well. There are a lot of little things to learn, such as how
    to pedal smoothly, how (and when) to stand up, efficient climbing,
    aerodynamic positioning, etc. I've been riding for years and I'm still
    amazed how much I learn from riding with more experienced cyclists!

    Another reason to join the club!!

    Thanks very much!!
    Dave

  4. Remember that you will usually make your best improvements in your
    weakest leg. Put in some more miles riding, especially with a speedier
    group. (Think of it this way - would you rather go slower with them on a
    training ride, or slower in a race? <G>😉
    I've been riding with a local group of hammerheads several times a week
    for some years now. Most of the time, I struggled to keep up, and prayed
    that I just wouldn't be last. Finally I've gotten to where I can respond
    to the attacks and keep up with the leaders. Part of that came from
    working on strength instead of spinning. Now I can ride in a harder gear
    at a high cadence. This really helps on hills - I usually have several
    easier gears left on a climb in case it kicks up sharply. Plus, the
    extra power means that I don't get tired quite so quickly if I try and
    accelerate!

    Dave Hallsworth said:


    Firstly, thanks for the reply.

    Quoted message said:

    First, fit is VERY important. I'd strongly recommend you to head to a
    shop and pay for a measured fitting - something like the Fit Kit or
    similar systems. You'd be amazed how much difference it can make. It
    will probably feel funny for a while, but you'll get used to it and it
    will likely help a lot.

    I may well do - hopefully my local shop will do this.

    Quoted message said:

    Second, honestly, you don't need a triple unless you're 250 lbs or going
    up Alp D'heuz. If you want easier gears, look for something like FSA's
    Compact crankset - this is what Tyler Hamilton uses on mountain stages.
    It has smaller tooth chainrings for additional help climbing. Still, to
    climb better, you need to improve your strength, and simply spinning
    your way up is not the way to do this. There are a number of resources
    on the web that can help you with this one.

    Although I complain, I don't think I need a tripple. I'm just used to
    low-gearing on my MTB, and slowly coming round to the idea that going
    up-hill on a road bike simply takes more effort (but is consequently faster)

    Quoted message said:

    Third, how do you ride? Do you mainly ride alone or with a group?

    <snip - thanks for the advice>

    I ride on my own at the minute. There's a local tri-club not a mile from
    where I live. The catch-22 is that I want to improve before I join, but
    probably won't UNTIL I join. I know some friends cycle, but being rubbish
    at it in front of them is worse than being in the lower leagues of a club.
    I had the same quandry before I joined a running club and was proven to be
    very far off the mark when it came to my expectations of being the worst
    there!! I'll e-mail them now!!

    Quoted message said:

    Fourth, how often do you ride?

    At the minute, usually 2-3 times a week, but I know I have to increase this.
    I currently do 5 runs ('my sport'😉, 2 swims and 3 bikes - I should probably
    swap a run for a bike, though my runs are in the morning and for some reason
    I have a 'cycling-in-the-morning aversion'

    Quoted message said:

    Remember that you are new to this. A few months does not give you much
    time to develop any sort of base, or proper leg strength. It will take
    time. Still, 30kph average is far from slow, especially for a new rider.

    Lastly, while it may not seem like it, technique is very important for
    cycling as well. There are a lot of little things to learn, such as how
    to pedal smoothly, how (and when) to stand up, efficient climbing,
    aerodynamic positioning, etc. I've been riding for years and I'm still
    amazed how much I learn from riding with more experienced cyclists!

    Another reason to join the club!!

    Thanks very much!!
    Dave

  5. Makes a lot of sense. Too often I find myself in low gears and not having
    many lower gears for the hills.

    I e-mailed the tri-club!!

    Cheers for the advice.
    Dave

  6. "Dave Hallsworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello,


    .....

    Quoted message said:


    Where the bike is concerned though, I try to put the miles
    in and it's still
    bloody hard work!! This is partly because I still haven't
    got it fitted


    ....

    Quoted message said:

    easier, but I've been banging away at the bike for a
    couple of months, and
    it's not seeming to get any easier.

    The bike is hard work. It takes big base to lay the
    foundation for your strengthening. It takes many hill
    repeats to get you ready for speed work. And the monthly
    improvements are in 1 KmPH increments with 3.5-6.5KmPH
    improvement in one season being really good.

    By the way - 30KmPH is not "slow". It's a great place to be
    starting from.

    -CF

  7. I'm sure the die hard road cyclist will laugh at this, but get into
    spinning classes somewhere with a tough instructor and good
    equiptment. I found that as a starting cyclist transitioning from
    running only to triathlon, the spin class was a great intro to
    cycling. I just finished my first race on a very hilly course and the
    bike was the strongest leg. The class helps give you the motivation
    to push yourself and if you live in a flat area its the closest thing
    to hills you can get. Secondly, train with a heart rate monitor. I
    took this habit from running to cycling and found it was hard to push
    your legs up to a solid Zone 4/5a workout. It took a few months to
    build the muscular endurance to get good threshold workouts. Then the
    real gains started to happen.

  8. Quoted message said:

    I'm sure the die hard road cyclist will laugh at this, but get into
    spinning classes somewhere with a tough instructor and good
    equiptment.

    Good idea, but I seem to have spent so much money on cycle kit, clothes,
    etc, it seems silly not to get out and ride what I paid for!! I might
    reconsider when the student loan cheque comes through!!

    Quoted message said:

    Secondly, train with a heart rate monitor.

    This is something I'm really considering. I never got one for running as I
    would have a track session based on time, not effort, a tempo with people
    faster than myself and a long run with people slower than myself, thus
    negating the need for a HRM. However, now I'm doing more training on my
    own, I might consider it. Any recommendations for a (cheap) HRM?

    Cheers.

  9. Quoted message said:

    The bike is hard work. It takes big base to lay the foundation for your
    strengthening. It takes many hill repeats to get you ready for speed
    work.

    I'm going to try to up my ride frequency, not individual ride length to
    build a base. What do you recommend for hill repeats?

    Cheers,
    Dave

  10. One way to make cycling workouts more fun (and productive!) is to ride
    with a group, especially one that is a bit faster than you. Most towns
    have local cycling clubs that have a number of organized rides each
    week. Find a faster group and try to hang on as long as you can! If you
    get dropped, catch up when they stop and go out with them again.

    Also, remember not to always ride hard. You also need to do recovery
    rides, moderate rides, in addition to hard workouts.

    Dave Hallsworth said:


    Quoted message said:

    The bike is hard work. It takes big base to lay the foundation for your
    strengthening. It takes many hill repeats to get you ready for speed
    work.

    I'm going to try to up my ride frequency, not individual ride length to
    build a base. What do you recommend for hill repeats?

    Cheers,
    Dave

  11. Any of the A model Polars are a good cheap way to get started with one. I
    have the Polar A5 and have been happy with it. The cheapest Polar you can
    find, for around $50, will give you a simple HR. For a few more bucks you
    can add features like target zones, average HR (good for TT and performance
    testing), calories burned, and lots of watch functions like lap timers and
    computer down link features. They even have a few cycle models that
    incorporate speed/distance data. Bottom line for any activity is to get
    faster you need to do interval training at or above your lactate threshold
    heart rate. Best way to get that is to put on a heart rate monitor and go
    for an all out 60 minute time trial. Ride like your racing and you average
    HR will be close to your LT. Then get some quality sprints, climbs, or
    whatever gets your heartrate up to that number on your interval workouts.
    That will make you faster and stronger on the hills. Easy into these kind
    of workouts, too much too fast can lead to overuse injuries, start out with
    10 minutes of total interval time with recovery breaks between 2 and 3 times
    you interval time. Good 60 minute workout is 10-15 min warm-up, 2 minute
    sprint with a 4 minute recovery (x5 repeats), with a 10-15 minute cool down.
    Make you HR hit that LT value.

    As for spinning classes, give it a try on a cold dark morning or a rainy
    day. It offers the benefits of a hill workout, fixed gear training, and no
    traffic or stop signs.

    I just completed a triathlon on a very hilly course and made all my money
    passing people on the uphills. Got to give the credit to heartrate training
    and high resistance power cycling/spinning classes. I only ride 50-80 mile
    a week. Averaging 20-21 MPH on the flat and getting faster ;-)

    Best of luck.

    "Dave Hallsworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure the die hard road cyclist will laugh at this, but get into
    spinning classes somewhere with a tough instructor and good
    equiptment.

    Good idea, but I seem to have spent so much money on cycle kit, clothes,
    etc, it seems silly not to get out and ride what I paid for!! I might
    reconsider when the student loan cheque comes through!!

    Quoted message said:

    Secondly, train with a heart rate monitor.

    This is something I'm really considering. I never got one for running as


    I

    Quoted message said:

    would have a track session based on time, not effort, a tempo with people
    faster than myself and a long run with people slower than myself, thus
    negating the need for a HRM. However, now I'm doing more training on my
    own, I might consider it. Any recommendations for a (cheap) HRM?

    Cheers.

  12. I just did the 'natural skills' test in the 'training bible', which I bought
    following my other thread. I get scores of speed = 5 (excellent), endurance
    = 3 (average), force (1) poor. I guess that would all tie into my problems
    hill climbing. In which case, I think a few winter gym sessions are in
    order - the book seems to have some good suggestions for programmes.

    Cheers all.
    Dave

  13. All my cycling training is based on heart rate zones and cadence.
    This is true if I'm on the road or my CompuTrainer.

    Be careful with the spin. Mix it up, don't do spin exclusively. If
    you can, get on a trainer before spin.

    Mark

    "Dave Hallsworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure the die hard road cyclist will laugh at this, but get into
    spinning classes somewhere with a tough instructor and good
    equiptment.

    Good idea, but I seem to have spent so much money on cycle kit, clothes,
    etc, it seems silly not to get out and ride what I paid for!! I might
    reconsider when the student loan cheque comes through!!

    Quoted message said:

    Secondly, train with a heart rate monitor.

    This is something I'm really considering. I never got one for running as I
    would have a track session based on time, not effort, a tempo with people
    faster than myself and a long run with people slower than myself, thus
    negating the need for a HRM. However, now I'm doing more training on my
    own, I might consider it. Any recommendations for a (cheap) HRM?

    Cheers.

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