Do You Think Cycling Can Be As Popular As The Other Major Sports In The U.s.?
- Thread starter thepieeatingjay
- Start date
I don't think it has to do with how boring people perceive the sport. For sure, billiards, baseball, soccer NASCAR all get TV time on ESPN or other networks- more than cycling anyway and are all considered "boring" by the most people.
The thing Americans lack is the cultural lens and background that allows us to understand the details of what we are watching.
How can anyone think soccer is boring? Well if they don't understand the nuances of making overlapping runs, tactics, and strategy, and only understand goals... it can be very boring. 20+ people running on a large green space for 90 minutes and no goals... BORING
Baseball is the same to anyone who doesn't understand the significance of each pitch and how it will effect the next one. BORING!!!!
In cycling, Americans watch it..and see- a group of people riding bikes in ugly skin tight suits - BORING. They may not get the subtle tactics, the pace lines, or understand the skill to maintain an eschelon or understand the timing of attacks and how blocking works.
Without some understanding of the nuances... it frankly is quite boring. And since pro cycling is not part of American sports DNA the way football, baseball, etc. are, it will always and forever be a very niche sport.
The thing Americans lack is the cultural lens and background that allows us to understand the details of what we are watching.
How can anyone think soccer is boring? Well if they don't understand the nuances of making overlapping runs, tactics, and strategy, and only understand goals... it can be very boring. 20+ people running on a large green space for 90 minutes and no goals... BORING
Baseball is the same to anyone who doesn't understand the significance of each pitch and how it will effect the next one. BORING!!!!
In cycling, Americans watch it..and see- a group of people riding bikes in ugly skin tight suits - BORING. They may not get the subtle tactics, the pace lines, or understand the skill to maintain an eschelon or understand the timing of attacks and how blocking works.
Without some understanding of the nuances... it frankly is quite boring. And since pro cycling is not part of American sports DNA the way football, baseball, etc. are, it will always and forever be a very niche sport.
Lance Armstrong was a name almost everyone knew, for a long time. I think with the right face on the posters. I believe all it will take is one charming, handsome poster boy and you have the next big sport.
If you think cycling (or golf, baseball, etc..) then you do not understand the sport well enough to truly enjoy it. Cycling is a chess match. I get that most people can't appreciate the strategy that plays out over the entire 3 weeks and are not going to watch every second of it, but I am glued to the TV the whole time. I like watching the individual stage battles overlap the team strategy for the final podium at the end. Yes, the final 20k are always awesome to watch but so are all the major climbs. Not for nothing, but I think the announcing crew does a really good job in keeping the broadcast entertaining.
Baseball is another game toted as being "boring". Sure, home runs are exciting but when the score is 0-1 in the 8th, it's been a tough game to watch for some. Offense is something all viewers enjoy, but if you REALLY understand the game, then you can really appreciate what's going on when the score is low. I love to watch a good pitcher. A pitching duel, when both pitchers are painting pitches may be subtle, but to me just as exciting as a good offense.
Baseball is another game toted as being "boring". Sure, home runs are exciting but when the score is 0-1 in the 8th, it's been a tough game to watch for some. Offense is something all viewers enjoy, but if you REALLY understand the game, then you can really appreciate what's going on when the score is low. I love to watch a good pitcher. A pitching duel, when both pitchers are painting pitches may be subtle, but to me just as exciting as a good offense.
I don't know why it couldn't be. There are countries where cycling is the number one national sport along with football. In Spain for example, people are totally obsessed with cycling, and I hardly encountered anyone who was not enthusiastic to immediately talk about their bike and their cycling routines, experiences and adventures. Perhaps cycling is more popular in the States than you think.
I'm one of those "old guys who used to race" who truly love the sport of cycling - as a participant and now a viewer. I remember the late 60's when we didn't even know who won the Tour de France until the British magazines arrived. Even in Los Angeles, where I lived at the time, the LA Times never printed race results. Now I can watch the Tour live and with the internet the Classics, Giro etc.
There are a couple of problems with cycling ever becoming a mainstream sport in the U.S. One is that to enjoy cycling as a viewer you have to have an attention span greater than most Americans will ever be capable of. Second, to enjoy the sport (at least road cycling) you have to at least begin to understand the complexity of a team sport where the effort, tactics and strategy are support the one person who can actually win. Finally, there is a deeper level to cycle sport - its traditions, heroes, villains, history etc. that few people would bother with since the only way to appreciate it is through actual READING. It's the same with chess and classical music - it really takes a bit of effort to learn enough to really enjoy them.
Not to worry, though - the Belgians (at the very least) will keep the flame.
There are a couple of problems with cycling ever becoming a mainstream sport in the U.S. One is that to enjoy cycling as a viewer you have to have an attention span greater than most Americans will ever be capable of. Second, to enjoy the sport (at least road cycling) you have to at least begin to understand the complexity of a team sport where the effort, tactics and strategy are support the one person who can actually win. Finally, there is a deeper level to cycle sport - its traditions, heroes, villains, history etc. that few people would bother with since the only way to appreciate it is through actual READING. It's the same with chess and classical music - it really takes a bit of effort to learn enough to really enjoy them.
Not to worry, though - the Belgians (at the very least) will keep the flame.
Professional cycling will never be a major sport in the US.
1 - First of all- pro road cycling has never been in the American Sports DNA- its not part of our culture... give me a top ten list of Pro Cycling movies you have seen? Are there 10? are there five? Kids don't grow up following it. Some of you here on this cycling forum like it... and thats what it will remain... a niche sport for a very small minority
2- Geography. Americans tend to love sports americans are good at (see Baseball Football, College Football). Even the niche sports we get on TV are ones Americans do well in (Golf, X Games, etc). Pro cycling has always been a European dominated sport. Outside of the World Cup, soccer is the same way. The sport features people with funny names, with funny accents, that may not even speak English. The European topography gives them an instant edge in road cycling. We have our cyclocross and criteriums but the top league (like soccer and formula 1) is in Europe, and so, those sports will always be niche sports here in the states. If there is a sudden explosion of American cyclists doing amazing things... maybe some network will actually carry the event.. but American athletes.. the best ones.. .generally don't gravitate towards cycling.. not even close. Europe has the mountains, the history, the culture. Just Like americans won't be dominating table tennis any time soon--- Cycling will be an also ran sport.
3- All the cheating. Drugs and doping have destroyed any credibility this sport has. The entire history of this sport has been riddled with doping and bargains brokered to win races. I have read a half dozen books about pro cycling from 70's through today where results are paid for and bargained for. And that is to say nothing of the drugs, blood doping etc. You know how often deals are struck amoung team directors and cyclists to stage the finish of a race... nearly every single time.
American sports have had their scandals.. but in America, we had our issues in Team Sports, mainly baseball and football. Doping in an individual sport is worse integrity wise. There are no clean players. you can't say- only half the team doped. Its basically impossible for anyone clean to win if there are good competitors doping. To most Americans, we don't believe anyone is clean in that sport and its been too easy to cheat. We have seen from the Lance debacle how the UCI and other governing bodies aided in the cover up.
Americans have this funny perspective of cheating... if you aint cheatin you aint trying is a common phrase in Nascar... but since Americans dont have pro road cycling in their DNA, they dont know the difference between games man ship (i.e. a pitcher throwing the spitball ) and outright cheating (.i.e. Human Growth Hormone, point shaving, etc). To Americans--when it comes to cycling its all cheating. In Europe, a lot of the back deal bargains that happen to secure stage finishes are seen as common gamesman ship-- Its always been done-- its to be expected. Americans by and large don't subscribe to that same ethic.
The Tour de France began as a gimmick to sell a Cycling magazine- that is all - a gimmick. There was rampant cheating from the very first Tour. the event was almost cancelled after the first because the winner cheated. The history of the Tour, road cycling's crown jewel event, is itself a history of cheating and scandal. There is nothing pure about it. Thats hard for Americans new to the game to get behind.
4) Coverage- outside of the Tour de France, can any American casual sports fan name a 2nd event? or a third? There is total ignorance of this sport there is no coverage of the sport and frankly no will on the part of Americans to change it. The sports season starts when Major League Baseball season begins and hockey and basketball are having their playoff races and March Madness... who is left to watch the Classics Season? In the dog days of summer, there is baseball. And still no coverage of the sport here. there is insufficient demand.
Even with Greg Lemond, and Lance Armstrong (when we thought he was clean) the sport was never more than a blip on the radar during the tour de france... if Lance couldnt get this sport into the mainstream... no body can.
And you know what... that's ok. I like the European league soccer... I like knowing I "get" something the average sports "joe" doesnt. I will watch Messi and Ronaldo every week as appoitnment viewing and bask in their greatness knowing I won't have to listen to Stephen A Smith and shitty ESPN commentators **** all over my sport.
Bask in the uniqueness. Bask in the fact that you get it... and others don't. So what.. and hey... who gives a **** about watching cycling on a summer day anyway... how about we just get off our ass and just ride! first beer is on me
1 - First of all- pro road cycling has never been in the American Sports DNA- its not part of our culture... give me a top ten list of Pro Cycling movies you have seen? Are there 10? are there five? Kids don't grow up following it. Some of you here on this cycling forum like it... and thats what it will remain... a niche sport for a very small minority
2- Geography. Americans tend to love sports americans are good at (see Baseball Football, College Football). Even the niche sports we get on TV are ones Americans do well in (Golf, X Games, etc). Pro cycling has always been a European dominated sport. Outside of the World Cup, soccer is the same way. The sport features people with funny names, with funny accents, that may not even speak English. The European topography gives them an instant edge in road cycling. We have our cyclocross and criteriums but the top league (like soccer and formula 1) is in Europe, and so, those sports will always be niche sports here in the states. If there is a sudden explosion of American cyclists doing amazing things... maybe some network will actually carry the event.. but American athletes.. the best ones.. .generally don't gravitate towards cycling.. not even close. Europe has the mountains, the history, the culture. Just Like americans won't be dominating table tennis any time soon--- Cycling will be an also ran sport.
3- All the cheating. Drugs and doping have destroyed any credibility this sport has. The entire history of this sport has been riddled with doping and bargains brokered to win races. I have read a half dozen books about pro cycling from 70's through today where results are paid for and bargained for. And that is to say nothing of the drugs, blood doping etc. You know how often deals are struck amoung team directors and cyclists to stage the finish of a race... nearly every single time.
American sports have had their scandals.. but in America, we had our issues in Team Sports, mainly baseball and football. Doping in an individual sport is worse integrity wise. There are no clean players. you can't say- only half the team doped. Its basically impossible for anyone clean to win if there are good competitors doping. To most Americans, we don't believe anyone is clean in that sport and its been too easy to cheat. We have seen from the Lance debacle how the UCI and other governing bodies aided in the cover up.
Americans have this funny perspective of cheating... if you aint cheatin you aint trying is a common phrase in Nascar... but since Americans dont have pro road cycling in their DNA, they dont know the difference between games man ship (i.e. a pitcher throwing the spitball ) and outright cheating (.i.e. Human Growth Hormone, point shaving, etc). To Americans--when it comes to cycling its all cheating. In Europe, a lot of the back deal bargains that happen to secure stage finishes are seen as common gamesman ship-- Its always been done-- its to be expected. Americans by and large don't subscribe to that same ethic.
The Tour de France began as a gimmick to sell a Cycling magazine- that is all - a gimmick. There was rampant cheating from the very first Tour. the event was almost cancelled after the first because the winner cheated. The history of the Tour, road cycling's crown jewel event, is itself a history of cheating and scandal. There is nothing pure about it. Thats hard for Americans new to the game to get behind.
4) Coverage- outside of the Tour de France, can any American casual sports fan name a 2nd event? or a third? There is total ignorance of this sport there is no coverage of the sport and frankly no will on the part of Americans to change it. The sports season starts when Major League Baseball season begins and hockey and basketball are having their playoff races and March Madness... who is left to watch the Classics Season? In the dog days of summer, there is baseball. And still no coverage of the sport here. there is insufficient demand.
Even with Greg Lemond, and Lance Armstrong (when we thought he was clean) the sport was never more than a blip on the radar during the tour de france... if Lance couldnt get this sport into the mainstream... no body can.
And you know what... that's ok. I like the European league soccer... I like knowing I "get" something the average sports "joe" doesnt. I will watch Messi and Ronaldo every week as appoitnment viewing and bask in their greatness knowing I won't have to listen to Stephen A Smith and shitty ESPN commentators **** all over my sport.
Bask in the uniqueness. Bask in the fact that you get it... and others don't. So what.. and hey... who gives a **** about watching cycling on a summer day anyway... how about we just get off our ass and just ride! first beer is on me
Even I get bored watching a race on TV. In the States, we are also dealing with anywhere from a 5, up to possibly a 10, hour time difference between us and Europe, so watching live stages during the Tour are impossible for us working stiffs, except on weekends. And I'd rather be out riding then.
And we usually don't get the Giro or Vuelta televised here.
And we usually don't get the Giro or Vuelta televised here.
I personally don't think that it's going to be as popular at all. It's just a fact since it has been such for a lot of years. Not that it's going to change at all, unless it's completely turned around to professionalism, maybe that could change something, but is it going to be as popular as major ones? that I do not think so.
You're kidding, right? Few countries are more diverse than America, and the examples you posed are way off the mark. Soccer/Football is one of the fastest growing sports in popularity in the United States, as evidenced by the previous World Cup tournament, and Baseball is still one of the most popular sports in the country. It's not that Americans lack a cultural lens or background, because that's completely wrong. Generalization is never an effective tool for making an argument one way or another.NJAgent020 said:
h34r:
Absolutely, I agree with you. Generalization is often used because of certain experiences, but it definitely not the way to judge things or make an argument.gavinfree said:You're kidding, right? Few countries are more diverse than America, and the examples you posed are way off the mark. Soccer/Football is one of the fastest growing sports in popularity in the United States, as evidenced by the previous World Cup tournament, and Baseball is still one of the most popular sports in the country. It's not that Americans lack a cultural lens or background, because that's completely wrong. Generalization is never an effective tool for making an argument one way or another.
NJAgent020, on 03 Apr 2015 - 2:55 PM, said:
Americans are the best in the world at Baseball, Basketball and Football -which were invented here, and played here at the highest level.
With respect to professional cycling... it is wholly unfamiliar to Americans. Americans by and large do not understand the sport, do not know the strategy and the tactics, the history, the all time greats, etc. We dont in America have a great respect for the sport they way European countries do, such as Italy.
When Lance Armstrong was dominating everything, doped up as he was, cycling still was not a blip on the radar here in the States. We cared the day he won the Tour de France- within two days it was back to baseball. If the sport was ever going to become mainstream, it would have been during the reign of Lance.
As for generalization, thats what this dicussion is all about- Whether pro cycling will become mainstream - as in, will it be as popular as baseball, basketball, football, hockey or even golf. Will you be able to turn on ABC, NBC, CBS, and see a Giro or a Tour of California. That answer is no. Pro cycling is a niche sport. And that is ok.
Thats not to say that bicycle riding isn't popular here. I am happy to say it is... but professional road cycling will not become a mainstream sport here.
NJAgent020 said:
What I was referring to was the lack of professional cycling in the American Sports DNA, the way Baseball and Football are. These sports are hard-wired into American sports DNA. Americans have grown up with baseball, football, basketball- we see it referenced in our movies and tv shows, its on network TV. Kids know 3 strikes and your out and what a Home Run is, even if they don't follow baseball. Cycling terms are not part of american language vernacular the way baseball is. When someone asks you how a job interview went, we may say that it was a "Slam Dunk" - And even people that don't know sports, know what that means. What is the cycling equivalent?? There is none. Perhaps in French or italian they have such a phrase.gavinfree said:You're kidding, right? Few countries are more diverse than America, and the examples you posed are way off the mark. Soccer/Football is one of the fastest growing sports in popularity in the United States, as evidenced by the previous World Cup tournament, and Baseball is still one of the most popular sports in the country. It's not that Americans lack a cultural lens or background, because that's completely wrong. Generalization is never an effective tool for making an argument one way or another.
Americans are the best in the world at Baseball, Basketball and Football -which were invented here, and played here at the highest level.
With respect to professional cycling... it is wholly unfamiliar to Americans. Americans by and large do not understand the sport, do not know the strategy and the tactics, the history, the all time greats, etc. We dont in America have a great respect for the sport they way European countries do, such as Italy.
When Lance Armstrong was dominating everything, doped up as he was, cycling still was not a blip on the radar here in the States. We cared the day he won the Tour de France- within two days it was back to baseball. If the sport was ever going to become mainstream, it would have been during the reign of Lance.
As for generalization, thats what this dicussion is all about- Whether pro cycling will become mainstream - as in, will it be as popular as baseball, basketball, football, hockey or even golf. Will you be able to turn on ABC, NBC, CBS, and see a Giro or a Tour of California. That answer is no. Pro cycling is a niche sport. And that is ok.
Thats not to say that bicycle riding isn't popular here. I am happy to say it is... but professional road cycling will not become a mainstream sport here.
The reason why cycling takes a back seat to all of the other majors because there is no drama. People love drama and characters that the media make out of these drama situations. Cycling was getting up there in popularity when Lance Armstrong made a comeback after cancer. This was before the dopeing incidents. People loved the drama and they may have tuned in to cycling more.
We need outspoken people in cycling. Someone that draws attention. The public will love it and cycling will have it's new darling.
We need outspoken people in cycling. Someone that draws attention. The public will love it and cycling will have it's new darling.
Cycling was getting up there? No. It wasn't. Americans loved lance but no one could name another race besides the tour de France. There was no additional coverage of cycling during his hey day. It was no where near getting mainstream.
Its not that cycling has no drama, it lacks drama Americans understand. First off, there are very few top notch American cyclists, so already ur against it.
Second, all the top races are in Europe..which means time difference and additional malaise and ambilivlence.
Third, we have no idea what we are watching. Obviously more coverage in the media would help but... Three week grand tour is too much. I think if there is hope for american professional cycling to go mainstream, it will be in cyclocross. There u have the muck, the mire, and more of an x games feel to it. Its easy to understand what u are seeing and you have a course with laps as opposed to some neverending route in a foreign country.... I mean Americans want to know when this thing is gonna end.
I think its a chicken and egg scenario...because without more top notch american cyclists in the pro peloten, you won't get more coverage or casual fan attention... But how do u get american top athletes interested in pursuing cycling?
Its not that cycling has no drama, it lacks drama Americans understand. First off, there are very few top notch American cyclists, so already ur against it.
Second, all the top races are in Europe..which means time difference and additional malaise and ambilivlence.
Third, we have no idea what we are watching. Obviously more coverage in the media would help but... Three week grand tour is too much. I think if there is hope for american professional cycling to go mainstream, it will be in cyclocross. There u have the muck, the mire, and more of an x games feel to it. Its easy to understand what u are seeing and you have a course with laps as opposed to some neverending route in a foreign country.... I mean Americans want to know when this thing is gonna end.
I think its a chicken and egg scenario...because without more top notch american cyclists in the pro peloten, you won't get more coverage or casual fan attention... But how do u get american top athletes interested in pursuing cycling?
One American in 1,000,000 can name the other two Americans who have won a Grand Tour.
I may be low-balling that figure, too. Maybe, maybe, 1 in 1.000,000 can name Horner, since he was recent. 1 in 100,000 cyclists can name Hampsten.
I may be low-balling that figure, too. Maybe, maybe, 1 in 1.000,000 can name Horner, since he was recent. 1 in 100,000 cyclists can name Hampsten.
Cycling is a tactical massacre. Chess match, it ain't. You need to race more if you think of chess...ABNPFDR said:
Similar threads
- Poll
