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Do you reckon he will?

Started by Jon Senior · · Last activity · 36 posts · 1,484 views

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UK and Europe
Published
29 April 2004
Last activity
5 May 2004
Original author
Jon Senior
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36
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  1. Jon Senior said:

    Credit where credit's due. He replied. ... The Transport
    Research Laboratory measure bicycle helmet wearing rates
    periodically. The latest survey we have, which is for
    2002, shows that cyclists are increasingly likely to
    choose to wear helmets. The proportion of all cyclists
    wearing helmets on major built up roads rose from 16% in
    1994 to 25% in 2002. However, this was not true for
    teenage boys, only 12% of whom wore helmets in 2002
    compared with 16% in 1994.

    Does anyone else share my suspicion that the correct
    interpretation of the above figures is: we didn't measure
    teenage boys separately in 1994, so we assumed the average
    figure. When we did measure them, they wore helmets less
    than average.

    Colin McKenzie

    --
    Why believe statistics? Ignore them and you can believe the
    damned lies instead!

  2. On Mon, 03 May 2004 18:05:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:

    <dentarthurdent>Do you get on with other
    robots?</dentarthurdent>

    <mavin>Hate them.</marvin>

    My kids are listening to the tapes of the original radio
    series at the moment :-)

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  3. Just zis Guy said:


    My kids are listening to the tapes of the original radio
    series at the moment :-)

    Far better than the books or the TV series.

    Tony

  4. On Mon, 3 May 2004 20:14:54 +0100, "Tony Raven"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My kids are listening to the tapes of the original radio
    series at the moment :-)

    Quoted message said:

    Far better than the books or the TV series.

    Definitely better than the TV series (the pictures were far
    better on the radio), but I have a soft spot for the books.
    Adams' prose is quite marvellous, and I very much liked the
    character of Fenchurch.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  5. On Mon, 03 May 2004 18:11:11 +0100, Colin McKenzie
    <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:
    Jon Senior said:

    Credit where credit's due. He replied. ... The Transport
    Research Laboratory measure bicycle helmet wearing rates
    periodically. The latest survey we have, which is for
    2002, shows that cyclists are increasingly likely to
    choose to wear helmets. The proportion of all cyclists
    wearing helmets on major built up roads rose from 16% in
    1994 to 25% in 2002. However, this was not true for
    teenage boys, only 12% of whom wore helmets in 2002
    compared with 16% in 1994.

    Does anyone else share my suspicion that the correct
    interpretation of the above figures is: we didn't measure
    teenage boys separately in 1994, so we assumed the average
    figure. When we did measure them, they wore helmets less
    than average.

    I've been away for the weekend, and Blueyonder's news server
    no longer has Jon's post to which Colin is replying, but
    from what colin quotes, it looks very like the reply I
    received on Friday, dated 30th April.

    <quote from Alistair Darling>

    "The DfT commissioned an independent review of the issue of
    compulsory bicycle helmet wearing, which was published in
    Nov 2002 as Road Safety Research Report no. 30. If you are
    interested, this report can be found on the DfT's website
    at www.roads.dft.gov.uk). [sic for the '😉'] The review
    concludes that overall there is evidence that bicycle
    helmets can reduce the incidence and severity of head,
    brain and upper facial injuries and that they can be
    effective for users of all ages, though particularly for
    children. The Department therefore promotes the use of
    cycle helmets. On the other hand, the report also concludes
    that compulsion may discourage some cyclists leading to
    decreased bicycle use.

    The Transport Research Laboratory measure bicycle helmet
    wearing rates periodically. The latest survey we have, which
    is for 2002, shows that cyclists are increasingly likely to
    chose to wear helmets. The proportion of all cyclists
    wearing helmets on major built up roads rose from 16% in
    1994 to 25% in 2002. However this was not true for teenage
    boys, only 12% of whom wore helmets in 2002 compared with
    16% in 1994.

    As you know, Eric Martlew MP has introduced has introduced a
    Private Member's Bill into Parliament, the purpose of which
    is to make wearing helmets by children compulsory. It will
    be up for debate by the House of Commons on 18 June
    following the second reading debate on 23 April. The
    Governemnet is concerned that, at a time when we are seeking
    to encourage people to take up cycling for health,
    environmental and other reasons, such compulsion could have
    th eparadoxical result of discouraging it. There could also
    be real difficulties for the police in enforcing compulsion
    when such a low proportion of children currently choose to
    wear helmets voluntarily.

    I hope this explains the position but if you have any
    questions then please let me know."

    </quote from Alistair Darling>

    It sounds suspiciously to me like 'We're in favour of
    compulsion once helmet use increases to the point
    where compulsion makes little difference to the helmet-
    use stats'...

    But the final para. does make it sound like he'll oppose
    Martlew, although doesn't actually go as far as to say that.

    Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.net Smalltalk
    links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
    html.dnsalias.netsmalltalk

  6. Gawnsoft [email hidden]
    opined the following...

    Quoted message said:

    It sounds suspiciously to me like 'We're in favour of
    compulsion once helmet use increases to the point where
    compulsion makes little difference to the helmet-use
    stats'...

    But the final para. does make it sound like he'll
    oppose Martlew, although doesn't actually go as far as
    to say that.

    It's the same (Even down to the lonely bracket!). He
    obviously got enough enquiries to produce a stock letter. My
    impression was that they were not committing to either side,
    but that they tended towards anti- compulsion, but I intend
    to take it further with him. I'd like to get a position from
    *him* rather than the government, but as he is a minister I
    guess that might not be forthcoming.

    I take it you didn't make to the Edinburgh CM last friday.

    Jon

  7. Just zis Guy said:

    On Mon, 3 May 2004 20:14:54 +0100, "Tony Raven" <junk@raven-
    family.com> wrote in message <[email hidden]-
    berlin.de>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My kids are listening to the tapes of the original radio
    series at the moment :-)

    Quoted message said:

    Far better than the books or the TV series.

    Definitely better than the TV series (the pictures were
    far better on the radio), but I have a soft spot for the
    books. Adams' prose is quite marvellous, and I very much
    liked the character of Fenchurch.

    Guy

    I enjoyed the radio scripts especially after hearing it on
    the radio. It was nice to find out more of the background
    behind each episode.
    --
    Mark

    Remove nothing to reply.

  8. in message <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,

    you know? (') said:

    On Mon, 03 May 2004 18:05:02 GMT, Simon Brooke
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message <itdim1-
    [email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    <dentarthurdent>Do you get on with other
    robots?</dentarthurdent>

    <mavin>Hate them.</marvin>

    My kids are listening to the tapes of the original radio
    series at the moment :-)

    You don't have a tape of the original series one -> series
    two link episode, do you - the one where the black sofa on
    the black spacecraft mutates into a ravenous monster?

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon

    'Victories are not solutions.' ;; John Hume,
    Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
    ;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have
    deserved it so much

  9. On Mon, 3 May 2004 22:40:58 +0100, Jon Senior
    <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:

    Gawnsoft [email hidden]
    opined the following...

    Quoted message said:

    It sounds suspiciously to me like 'We're in favour of
    compulsion once helmet use increases to the point where
    compulsion makes little difference to the helmet-use
    stats'...

    But the final para. does make it sound like he'll
    oppose Martlew, although doesn't actually go as far as
    to say that.

    It's the same (Even down to the lonely bracket!). He
    obviously got enough enquiries to produce a stock letter.
    My impression was that they were not committing to either
    side, but that they tended towards anti- compulsion, but I
    intend to take it further with him. I'd like to get a
    position from *him* rather than the government, but as he
    is a minister I guess that might not be forthcoming.

    I take it you didn't make to the Edinburgh CM last friday.

    No I didn't :-(.

    At this rate, I'll need an extension to my deadline
    extension.

    I've saved the post with the time/date of the next one, so
    with any luck...

    Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.net Smalltalk
    links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
    html.dnsalias.netsmalltalk

  10. On Mon, 3 May 2004 22:40:58 +0100, Jon Senior wrote:

    I'd like to get a

    Quoted message said:

    position from *him* rather than the government, but as he
    is a minister I guess that might not be forthcoming.

    I take it you didn't make to the Edinburgh CM last friday.

    Jon

    Remind him that you're a constituent and that he represents
    you and ask him how he's going to use his vote on behalf of
    his constituents.
    --
    Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He has never been known
    to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary." -
    William Faulkner (about Ernest Hemingway)
    www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

  11. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    My kids are listening to the tapes of the original radio
    series at the moment :-)

    The Social Services are on their way right now. You realise
    the danger you've put them in? Years from now they'll be
    getting very strange looks from people due to them quoting
    random bits of Hitch Hikers that may seem appropriate at
    the time. [1]

    Graeme

    [1] I've had to stop going "ICE?!" and "LEMON?!" whenever
    anyone asks me for a G&T (luckily this is a rare
    event anyway).

  12. Simon Brooke said:

    You don't have a tape of the original series one -> series
    two link episode, do you - the one where the black sofa on
    the black spacecraft mutates into a ravenous monster?

    Don't think so.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

  13. Graeme said:

    [1] I've had to stop going "ICE?!" and "LEMON?!" whenever
    anyone asks me for a G&T (luckily this is a rare event
    anyway).

    Jinnan tonnix for everyone, then?

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

  14. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c77l53
    [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Jinnan tonnix for everyone, then?

    ICE!!!???

    Damn, you've started me off again!

    Graeme :-)

  15. you know? said:
    James Hodson said:

    <dft.gov.ukdocu
    ments/page/dft_rdsafety_507998.hcsp>

    <marvin>I've seen it. It's rubbish.</marvin>

    Agreed. But it took me a whie to find the page you were
    taking about. Good deed for the day etc.

    James

  16. On Mon, 03 May 2004 13:26:51 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:

    We really do have to do something about this "independent"
    review. I know they've corrceted some of the more
    egregious errors, but it remains a document written by pro-
    helmet authors which reaches a pro-helmet conclusion
    largely by ignoring or excluding all the balancing
    evidence.

    Quoted message said:

    For example:

    Quoted message said:

    "The review concludes that overall there is evidence that
    bicycle helmets can reduce the incidence and severity of
    head, brain and upper facial injuries"

    Quoted message said:

    And it does so by including TR&T, despite acknowledging
    (some of) its fundamental errors.

    I'm happy to pop along to see A.D. at his surgery, if we put
    together a thorough portfolio to highlight the weaknesses in
    the report A.D. cites.

    Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.net Smalltalk
    links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
    html.dnsalias.netsmalltalk

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