Do I need a new wheel?

CandT said:

Cheers,

CandT

Just to add - in case it's relevant. I believe they are Formula hubs, on WTB dual duty rims.

Cheers again,

CandT

CandT said:

Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there seems to be a lot of 'play'
in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?

OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to hear the 'clicks' of the
freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of crank rotation. So basically - there can
be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance when moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and
the wheels start moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where you're
positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log or rock, then you hit the
accelerator, and from a quarter past nine position, the cranks only start turning the rear wheel
at 11:25 !!!

Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the hub/wheel? Or am I stuck with
it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...

Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to rebuild the wheel?

Cheers,

CandT

It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the pawls
engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want to
engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
(spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it were
a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were only 2
sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal just
after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to engagement.

After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.

David

"David Kunz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CandT said:

Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there

seems to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?

OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to

hear the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of

crank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels

start

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine

position, the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!

Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the

hub/wheel? Or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...

Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to

rebuild the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheel?

Cheers,

CandT

It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the
pawls engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want
to engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
(spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it
were a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were
only 2 sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal
just after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to

engagement.

Quoted message said:

After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.

David

That sounds reallly useful, I keep bashing my pedals on rocks because I dont feel resistance in my
wheel unitl 25 or more degrees, and at that point, my pedal is already in a bad position. Whats one
of these hubs cost? And how much would it cost to have a wheel mounted to it? Am I better off buying
a wheel with one already installed?

Tacomaboy said:

"David Kunz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CandT said:

Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there

seems to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?

OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to

hear the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of

crank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels

start

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine

position, the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!

Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the

hub/wheel? Or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...

Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to

rebuild the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheel?

Cheers,

CandT

It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the
pawls engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want
to engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
(spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it
were a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were
only 2 sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal
just after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to

engagement.

Quoted message said:

After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.

David

That sounds reallly useful, I keep bashing my pedals on rocks because I dont feel resistance in my
wheel unitl 25 or more degrees, and at that point, my pedal is already in a bad position. Whats
one of these hubs cost? And how much would it cost to have a wheel mounted to it? Am I better off
buying a wheel with one already installed?

Chris King is top of the line. I believe that one of their disc hubs alone is ahout $250 right now
(JensonUSA has 'em for $245). To have that laced-up to your current rim'll add to that (I don't know
how much -- I build my own wheels -- a nice relaxing evening 🙂). You can also buy pre-built wheels
using Chris King hubs -- JensonUSA has a pair for $380, but you'd only need the rear.

David

David Kunz said:

David

Cheers for that - but just to clarify, and I'm not sure if I'm right - but if I were to replace
the freehub, then that should sove my problem? Aren't the pawls and teeth all self contained in
the freehub. This just screws into the hub body with a long thread which is self-tightening under
pedal load.

Though I suppose - if a shimano freehub body has a different screw thread than the Formula hub body,
then I'm screwed anyway...

CandT

"David Kunz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

CandT said:

Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there

seems to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?

OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to

hear the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of

crank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels

start

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine

position, the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!

Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the

hub/wheel? Or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...

Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to

rebuild the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheel?

Cheers,

CandT

It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the
pawls engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want
to engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
(spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it
were a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were
only 2 sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal
just after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to

engagement.

Quoted message said:

After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.

David

In my recent recent research, Chris King have an amazingly fast engagement, better than all that I
got to touch (which admittedly was not the full spectrum of hubs). But you pay for that feature.
--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying)

Quoted message said:

In my recent recent research, Chris King have an amazingly fast

engagement,

Quoted message said:

better than all that I got to touch (which admittedly was not the full spectrum of hubs). But you
pay for that feature.

Check out Hope hubs (www.hopetech.com). twice the amount of ratchets as standard shimano hubs. Solid
build, bearings like a brick [censored]-house and lovely anodised colours. Oh, they're also a [censored] load
cheaper than Chris King

Small Black Dog

CandT said:

David Kunz said:

David

Cheers for that - but just to clarify, and I'm not sure if I'm right - but if I were to replace
the freehub, then that should sove my problem? Aren't the pawls and teeth all self contained in
the freehub. This just screws into the hub body with a long thread which is self-tightening under
pedal load.

Though I suppose - if a shimano freehub body has a different screw thread than the Formula hub
body, then I'm screwed anyway...

Good point on the unscrewing. My last couple of hubs had integral freehubs so that option didn't
occur to me. But, I believe that you're right -- that everyone has their own different
non-interchangable designs. At least, I've never seen any that are interchangable. You could check
with your LBS. Or, someone else here suggested Hope as a cheaper alternative to Chris King.

David

Is it a single-speed? If it is, your chain tension is probably low.

If it's a geared bike and you've ridden other geared bikes, then this one shouldn't be any
different. Look for a King hub in the rear.

Phil, sQuid.

"CandT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there

seems to

Quoted message said:

be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?

OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to hear

the

Quoted message said:

'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of

crank

Quoted message said:

rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance

when

Quoted message said:

moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels start moving. this can make if
very hard to ride tchnical sections where you're positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of
drive to get over a log

or

Quoted message said:

rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine position,

the

Quoted message said:

cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!

Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the

hub/wheel? Or

Quoted message said:

am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...

Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to rebuild

the

Quoted message said:

wheel?

Cheers,

CandT