DNFat IM-WI: A bit long

Mark, I am close to the same age, backround, and it looks like ability. I think nutrition is the key
thing to dial in for long course racing. Here are some of the things I have done wrong and see other
do wrong: 1. once on the bike, take nothing for 30-45 min to let everything settle down,
2. Once nutrition program starts, need to be gradual - too many calories too soon shuts everything
down, 3. practice nutrition in training at traing intensity - body burns different at 125 bpm
than at 155 bpm, and 4. not stopping soon enough. If you stop right when you sense trouble (
must be very attuned!) you can stem the tide. Good luck to you in future races. Good Luck! David
Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others.....

Ah..bummer Mark! Like you said though, having IM finishes under your belt makes the DNF a bit
easier to digest...oops...bad choice. I went through the DNF thing at IMUSA in '02, and had I not
already crossed that finish line years before I'd have probably caused serious damage to my foot
getting there.

Don't have any advice for your issue other than to keep experimenting, or take up short course!

Schwingding

"SBRMJM1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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First of all, Kudos to Harold and anyone else who finished the race in

Madison

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last week. It was a very hot day, a course with a tough bike lay-out and

those

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who finished earned it.

An old problem bit me again during IM-MOO and I have to figure out what to

do.

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I got off my bike and into my brother-in-law's Jeep Cherokee 80 miles into

the

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race a week ago and I never even thought twice about doing so. I hadn't absorbed any of my fuel
and within five minutes in the blessed

air-conditioned

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truck I asked him to pull over, whence I throw-up what felt like quarts of Accelerade, water, bits
of energy food etc, etc. Not a pretty sight.

While I was disappointed in not being able to continue what was/is a

terrific

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event in a wonderful place, it was the right thing for me to do to stop.

I

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have completed Kona twice, "comfortably" in 1991 and barely in the winds

of

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2001, where I learned to dig very, very deep to get to the finish. I had

wanted

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to do well in Madison ...the UW is my alma mater and it's my family's

home. I

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had trained often on the course this summer, experimented with what I

thought

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was a solid nutrition plan, but wooosh...it didn't work out as I wished on

race

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day.I also knew that without any fuel going where it was s'posed to, it

wasn't

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going to happen. Time to stand down and fight another day.

I have had this fuel absorption problem the last few years during long

course

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events and have looked at a lot of different ideas on how to deal with

race

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nutrition. It first started cropping up with me at the Pigman half-ironman

in

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1999 and has been a factor since.. not so bad at Muncie in 2001, tough in

Kona

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in 2001, rough at the Dairyland half this summer in Racine and then,

despite

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all sorts of research and ideas and experimenting, very rough in Madison.

I didn't want to end up my Ironman days as a DNF so I signed up for

Wisconsin

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again last week. If anyone has some anecdotal ideas and experience or a

good

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additional source (I have been to gordo's site, slowtwitch, tri-newbies

etc)on

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race nutrition that has worked for you, I would be interested in reading

about

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it. I am 47. 6'1"185-90lbs. Been racing for almost 20 years, usually

doing

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pretty well in the age group in local events. It's not life or death

anymore,

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but I do want to get to the finish line next September! Thanks for your help... Mark

Mark,

The symptoms you describe - non-absorption of what's in the stomach, are consistent with electrolyte
depletion/imbalance - not enough salt intake on a hot day.

Did you take electrolyte supplements (like Succeed) during the race? Have you taken them before?
They have helped me on hot days.

BTW, you weren't alone in your malady, race reports on I-Moo from some pretty good people I know
are similar.

I'll make a general observation here that may or may not be on target. In the really hot IM's (and
one really hot Half-IM) I've been involved in, the people that got in the most trouble were better
age groupers who hammered away on the bike, swearing later on that it wasn't THAT hot - but they
died nevertheless. The BOPpers like me laid back more and were effected less.

There are probably a couple of factors interwoven - the cooling effect of wind masking the real
heat, the mental tenacity of better age groupers, the pressure of going for a PR, Kona, etc. But I
think that bad conditions have a more serious effect on the "better" racers. Those of us at the back
can't/don't push beyond our physical limits as consistently as the fast folks.

Again, it's just a general observation and I'm not going to argue strongly one way or another.

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

[email hidden] (SBRMJM1) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If anyone has some anecdotal ideas and experience or a good additional source (I have been to
gordo's site, slowtwitch, tri-newbies etc)on race nutrition that has worked for you, I would be
interested in reading about
it. I am 47. 6'1"185-90lbs. Been racing for almost 20 years, usually doing pretty well in the age
group in local events. It's not life or death anymore, but I do want to get to the finish
line next September! Thanks for your help... Mark

Most sports drinks are too concentrated for me. Some of that comes from how much perspiration I
produced (a bunch).

I really have to dilute the volume that I drink to keep all of the sweet stuff from
shutting me down.

It seems I need the water more than the calories/electrolytes (sp?), relative to most folks.

RR

Guys, Thanks for the replies...just as another area of thought..do you think that any of this could
be age-related...or some kind of cumlative effect after years of racing? Or maybe what food I'm
eating in the days before the race? Or...Or... I'll keep looking and learning. Mark (And Mike you
are right..I love short course. Went to Lake Geneva and did the sprint this past weekend to end the
season on a positive note...10 overall 2nd in the Age group. Still want to finish the IM I go out on
though!🙂)

Mike, Thanks for the good insights. I was very concerned about the heat race day, so much so that I
took the almost unheard of step and did not wear a wetsuit during the swim. I am a decent distance
swimmer and the air and water temp were quite warm at 7 AM. Knowing my history I was concerned about
possible dehydration starting as early as 40 minutes into the swim and while my split was undeniably
slower than it otherwise could have been, I felt very comfortable-refreshed- throughout the
2.4.

I did take Thermo-tab salt pills, 4 of them during the 6 hours I was in the race, thinking, perhaps
mistakenly, that that was enough. I am of two minds on the salt. On the one hand it should help keep
you in balance, but also might be a reason that you are retaining fluid. I don't quite know what to
do about salt intake.

You make some very valid points about pace and better age-groupers. While I don't know if I really
qualify for that designation (especially at this distance!)in the back of my mind I did have a
desire to better my IM PR and because of my familiarity with the course felt that I could push
abit-the first 50 miles felt easy..and went by quickly. I went by my friends after a series of hills
in the loop and yelled that I was feeling great...and I was. 10 miles later I knew I was in trouble
and 20 miles after that it was over. And you are right about the heat costing some of us our race.
One of my best friends, a very fit and fast woman who is a 9 time vet of Kona, who won her age-group
at IM-WI last year, who has had a fabulous season as she turned 40, dropped on the run. It was quite
a day to be educated in the world of IM -racing!

Folks, I have really appreciated all the insights I have received either here on the newsgroup or by
private e-mail (keep 'em coming!). It is good to see that RST still "stands tall" when it comes to
discussion about the sport. Best, Mark

(SBRMJM1) said:

I did take Thermo-tab salt pills, 4 of them during the 6 hours I was in the race, thinking, perhaps
mistakenly, that that was enough. I am of two minds on the salt. On the one hand it should help
keep you in balance, but also might be a reason that you are retaining fluid. I don't quite know
what to do about salt intake.

4 Thermo-tabs should have done it.

I can't help but contrast your situation with Harold's. He had to pee a couple of times, so he was
hydrating pretty well. <g>

Perhaps dehydration was the problem?

<snip>

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because of my familiarity with the course felt that I could push abit-the first 50 miles felt
easy..and went by quickly. I went by my friends after a series of hills in the loop and yelled that
I was feeling great...and I was. 10 miles later I knew I was in trouble and 20 miles after that it
was over. And you are right about the heat costing some of us our race. One of my best friends, a
very fit and fast woman who is a 9 time vet of Kona, who won her age-group at IM-WI last year, who
has had a fabulous season as she turned 40, dropped on the run. It was quite a day to be educated
in the world of IM -racing!

This sounds so much like the situation I was talking about - a hot day, guys feeling real good and
pushing the bike - and then absolutely dieing.

One possible conclusion is that on hot days, even the best need to back off a notch or two.

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

I was out there too, had similar gastrointestinal issues, but finished dehydrated and near heat
exhaustion.

I avoid salt tablets, since I don't train with them, and when I've tried, I've gotten an
upset stomach.

I thought Gatorage had enough sodium to keep a person in balance. I drank Gatorade and ate Gu all
day. On the run/walk, it was gatorage and chicken broth. My stomach never felt good that day.

I too will continue to experiment.

MK

[email hidden] (SBRMJM1) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mike, Thanks for the good insights. I was very concerned about the heat race day, so much so that
I took the almost unheard of step and did not wear a wetsuit during the swim. I am a decent
distance swimmer and the air and water temp were quite warm at 7 AM. Knowing my history I was
concerned about possible dehydration starting as early as 40 minutes into the swim and while my
split was undeniably slower than it otherwise could have been, I felt very comfortable-refreshed-
throughout the
2.4.

I did take Thermo-tab salt pills, 4 of them during the 6 hours I was in the race, thinking,
perhaps mistakenly, that that was enough. I am of two minds on the salt. On the one hand it should
help keep you in balance, but also might be a reason that you are retaining fluid. I don't quite
know what to do about salt intake.

You make some very valid points about pace and better age-groupers. While I don't know if I really
qualify for that designation (especially at this distance!)in the back of my mind I did have a
desire to better my IM PR and because of my familiarity with the course felt that I could push
abit-the first 50 miles felt easy..and went by quickly. I went by my friends after a series of
hills in the loop and yelled that I was feeling great...and I was. 10 miles later I knew I was in
trouble and 20 miles after that it was over. And you are right about the heat costing some of us
our race. One of my best friends, a very fit and fast woman who is a 9 time vet of Kona, who won
her age-group at IM-WI last year, who has had a fabulous season as she turned 40, dropped on the
run. It was quite a day to be educated in the world of IM -racing!

Folks, I have really appreciated all the insights I have received either here on the newsgroup or
by private e-mail (keep 'em coming!). It is good to see that RST still "stands tall" when it comes
to discussion about the sport. Best, Mark

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike Tennent

Quoted message said:

(SBRMJM1) said:

I did take Thermo-tab salt pills, 4 of them during the 6 hours I was in the race, thinking,
perhaps mistakenly, that that was enough. I am of two minds on the salt. On the one hand it
should help keep you in balance, but also might be a reason that you are retaining fluid. I don't
quite know what to do about salt intake.

4 Thermo-tabs should have done it.

I can't help but contrast your situation with Harold's. He had to pee a couple of times, so he was
hydrating pretty well. <g>

I've noticed that I always have to pee a lot (during and after a workout or race) when I'm using
Endurolytes (electrolyte caps from Hammer), but I pretty much only use them when I'm doing really
long efforts. Thus, I don't know if it's because I drink a lot when I do my long efforts or because
the Endurolytes have something to do with it. I have a hear time remembering to take them, but I'd
bet I averaged one per hour or so on the bike, maybe a little less.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson